Need help. Hired LFS and not sure this is working out the way I had hoped...

[csenoj]

I need help…



Hired a LFS to help with my set up and it has been all sorts of disaster. I’ve had all sorts of leaks, noise issues, responsive issues, and they seem to be going fast/modifying things on the fly from what we had originally planned.


I live in the Kansas City area.

Only say this in case anyone is local and can help in person.

My original plan:

• 300 gallon display on main floor of house
• 96”w x 30”h
• Center overflow
• 2- 1.5” returns
• 2 – 1.75” overflow
• 1 – 60” sump
• 1 – dedicated refugium draining into sump
• 2 – pumps (redundancy)
• 2 – heaters (redundancy)
• 2 – skimmers (they thought better than 1 but this logic seems off to me)
• GHL Profillux 4 controller, doser, KH, and eventually ION
• Auto water changing station
• I was supposed to get 2 – 55 gallons but they swapped them to 2 – 35 gallons without telling me.
• I have a second tank in my sons room that is a 90 gallon that we were going to use this water for.
• See more on this later.
• Connected to house drain to make water changes simple and also make overflow impossible if power outage (I have a whole house generator so shouldn’t ever be an issue but…. Redundancy)

Parts list of what was delivered:

• (1) 96”x30”x24” Crystal glass and metal stand
• (2) 48" sapphire sumps (one has an overflow into the other – I think cut too low/not enough room for refugium)
  • Was originally supposed to be a custom build sump but there is a long story....
• (3) blueline pumps (I am worried these are undersized… 2 are for tank and 1 is for AWC)
  • BlueLine 40X
    • Size NPT 1x1
  • (2x) - BlueLine 30X HD
    • Size NPT 1x1
• (2) titanium heaters
• (2) aqua Excel skimmers
  • Not sure if 2 is better than 1 large. Would hope I could get refugium large enough to greatly reduce need.
• UV inline
  • Not installed yet
• RO Di unit
• (2) – 35 gallon water tanks (I have already re-ordered the 55 gallon)
• Jebao doser – (Plan to use GHL)
• 4 mp 40 (I plan to swap these out to Turbelle Stream 6105 as much because I want the cables inside the aquarium vs outside)
• 3 raidon 30 (I would like to swap out to GHL Mitras)
• 2 kessil 360 (just for deep shimmer/aesthetics)
• (1) Kessil H380 Grow Light
  • Not sure why only 1 when the intent was to have 2 refugiums
• Lots of plumbing parts etc.

Parts I have or am modifying already:

• GHL Controller
• Prof 4
• GHL Maxi 2.2 for AWC
• GHL SA Doser 2.2
• GHL KH
• Want to order a GHL flow sensor but want to figure out plumbing issues
• Swapping MP40 for Tunze Stream 6105
• 2 – 55 gallon rectangular water tanks

Other factors:

• Tank distance from sump room:
• 19.5 ft horizontal distance
• 14 ft vertical rise
• As currently plumbed:
• 7 – 90 degree bends
• Now that we have the large tank, my wife no longer wants to keep our 90 gallon tank in our sons room.
• This creates a dilemma and an opportunity to rob parts/use tank
• Available parts:
• 90 gallon, Crystalline, center overflow, stand
• (2) – 1.5” overflows and a 1” return
• Kessil ax90
• Nero 5
• Nero 1

Questions I need help on:

• Plumbing
  • They go from 2 overflow pipes into 1 consolidated. What is the advantage of this (especially since we are doing redundancy and they set up 2 separate sumps)?
  • Why ever reduce down the size of piping vs increasing the size of the pump?
  • Return pumps reduce down from 1” to ¾”
  • I am very unhappy with valve installation, piping not being strait, and use of glue to solve leaks vs resetting pipe
  • We did not take advantage of the fact that we have a house drain below the tank. Everything has to be drained vs a pump/valves manually. (seems like working against elements)
  • AWC should be elevated to help gravity to be an option (in my opinion)
  • Have had multiple leaks it looks like they just sealed from the outside with globs of glue.
  • I generally don’t trust the way they installed the overflow/anti-siphon.
  • I have turned off the pumps before so it doesn’t siphon a lot but I’d love to get input on what people this is best
  • Loud in the main tank despite being behind multiple cabinets
• Refugium’s/sumps
  • I worry that water level is too low to get as large of a refugium as I wanted the way they have it plumbed)
    • Water level is around 7.5” in chambers (14x14x7)
    • This is 5 gallon refugium (2x since two sumps = 10 gallons total)
    • Seem undersized to me
  • Didn’t build stand tall enough so hurts plumbing issue and it also doesn’t allow for the skimmer to fit under
  • I also think stand build quality is kind of rickety
  • They have 1 skimmer before the refugium and 1 skimmer after the refugium
  • No chaeto in there yet
  • Two different pumps out of sumps
    • One of sumps with the smaller pump seems to have standing water on surface
    • Anal retentive/OCD but the refugium tanks are angled wonky vs being parallel to the wall/stand
    • Goes to my worry that some of plumbing/leak issues are due to them bending items/not having piping cut properly so it has tiny gaps due to flex
  • I was really wanting a very large refugium/want it to be flush with pods
    • Mandarin Gobies are why I got into this hobby/don’t see how having more is worse
  • Should I convert the tank my wife wants me to break down into a dedicate refugium only?
    • Way too nice of one but I’ve already got the sunk cost of it.

My mindset:

• My thought is the more time I spend upfront getting this set up right, the less challenge I will have down the road.
• I understand there are some costs to this.
• I want to solve the problems, get this right, and go from there. Once I get it set up I can start looking backwards and have any conversations with LFS. But, first and foremost, I want to look forward!
• If I need to purchase something new, I’d rather take that lick today and be done (i.e. 1 large refugium vs 2)
• I have found myself constantly looking at the dreamboxes/have kind of been eyeing those.
• I travel for work/have young kids/own my own business. Time is precious and want to get this thing running smoothly/am willing to spend more to worry less in future.
• This is going to be a mixed reef with SPS

Fire away folks. Tell me what other info you need, give me any thoughts, happy to pay for help, happy to take free help, happy to do via forums or phone call or in person. I’m just looking to do this once (well, may have to do it over but I consider the set up process one time regardless of trials/errors) and do it right.

I've made lots of mistakes in this process but now just taking a breath and trying to regroup.

 

[mike550]

Wow. Okay let’s start with that’s an amazing looking tank. So on the display side I don’t know if there are any issues. In terms of the basement stuff I can sense your frustration since it seems like you’re a bit of a veteran to the hobby. A few things that would bother me. First, I don’t like the cheap valves they used. I‘d replace those. Second, the wood frame makes me nervous (from the pics) as I’m not sure it can handle a lateral load. Third, those dosing tubes look to be a lot longer than they need to be.

Personally, I would re-plumb the basement lines from the drain valves and below. But I’m also the type that if something bothers me I don’t want to stare at it all the time. That said, it’s an amazing layout. Wish I could have been able to do something like that with my 120

 

[Harpo]

Please show us a photo of the legs on the stand. Hopefully there are 3 2x4 for each leg.

 

[csenoj]

Please show us a photo of the legs on the stand. Hopefully there are 3 2x4 for each leg.

I believe the stand is too small width wise (would like it to extend all the way to the wall so we have some shelf space) and also is too short height wise. It needs to be replaced regardless.

 

[csenoj]

This was also my inspiration for AWC. Obviously not even close to that

 

[csenoj]

Naïve forum question, is there a way to delete a post? I did an edit to consolidate into one and now can't get rid of this one.

 

[Harpo]

Looks like garbage to me

 

[Nano_Man]

There must be another reefer near you that can resolve your issues and give you a hand . Do a thread asking if there is anyone close to you . Or go back to the people that fitted it and tell them your not happy how it has been done see what they say . And if they don’t rectify the problem I would name and shame them . Best of luck to you

 

[SpunCoral]

As much as I love an LFS, I sometimes don't trust them to have the proper knowledge to do an install like this. There are a couple of stores in my area that are run by underpaid young people who don't have the skills for plumbing a difficult system (yet). Id reach out to a private company for a second opinion and then go back to the LFS and either ask for them to fix it, or have them pay the bill on your new guy to fix it.

 

[Tonycass12]

I believe the stand is too small width wise (would like it to extend all the way to the wall so we have some shelf space) and also is too short height wise. It needs to be replaced regardless.

Wow do not let them build you another stand this is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[TCK Corals]

Wow do not let them build you another stand this is a disaster waiting to happen.

Is there anything preventing this entire stand from rocking back and forth or twisting? (Diagonal cross bracing or plywood on the short sides/back) Seems a little underbuilt…. Might hold for now but saltwater does things to wood over time…

 

[Dbichler]

From the pictures the stand would be my biggest concern then the plumbing.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Just an very unprofessional job. I would have been fired from my old servicing job if I left a client's place like this.

Stand needs to be rebuilt or at least added to.
Dosing lines are a mess, and did they use containers to keep them off the ground? Cmon.
Plumbing looks ok but I would question it based on the other decisions they made.

The display tank is stunning, though.

 

[o2manyfish]

The sump stand is untreated pine with a sheet of plywood. With all the humidity/evaporation at the sump. The life expectancy of that sump stand is pretty short. So the opportunity to redo this and fix all your issues will occur faster than you think.

If you wanted to keep the same foot print but clean up the issues you have, I would pull the lower sump a little farther out from under the stand. Then move the top skimmer to the bottom sump. And turn the entire top sump into your refugium.

For your concern about Mandarins, While a refugium is great place to farm pods for them. Nooks and crannies work just as well - what I mean by this is a little bit denser aquascape with more rock will provide the adequate space for pods to flourish. It's seeding with a variety of pods and feeding them to get them established.

While I have a giant sump refugium - and every clump of chaeto includes a pod population - the denses pods are on the frag racks in the outdoor frag tanks. All the nooks of the eggcrate, the frag plug, the space between the plug and the egg crate - the pods just go nuts. And these tanks are filled with fish (angels & Tangs) and mandarins, and pipefish. The population is insane.

Dave B

 

[csenoj]

At this point, it seems like I am going to have to do a large "reset" so I don't necessarily feel the need to keep the same footprint.

Thinking of a reset... any suggestions on how I can repurpose the 90gallon tank to be a part of the main tank sump system?

 

[csenoj]

Would someone be able to help me figure out how to calculate flow rate once they reduce the pipe sizing down?

I don't know how to modify this to account for reduction down? If I did this correctly, my chart shows I need 22.95' for head pressure but these pumps are only capable of 13'. But, they reduced them down out of the pumps.

 

[Dbichler]

Your math looks right to me.

 

[csenoj]

Your math looks right to me.

The only challenge is measuring what the real pressure is out of the pump. The calculations from the manufacturer use a 1" line and the LFS reduced it down to 3/4. That would definitely increase the pressure but I doubt it makes it 2x.

 

[flashsmith]

Ok.. If you paid them. Make a list of things you have issues with and ask them to be addressed. Don't take this the wrong way but sometimes what a customer wants doesn't always get conveyed in the right way to the person doing the job. Yes things could be a little neater but your system looks good.

 

[csenoj]

I don't take that the wrong way at all. Again, I'm not here to bash anyone. Just trying to understand so I can make sure I'm educated to ask the right questions.