Need Help Analyzing PO4 Jump

[AKL1950]

Morning All. Over the past year, my tank has been extremely stable. Now, My PO4 has taken a substantial jump in the last two weeks and I need help finding the cause. There are two things that have changed in the last two weeks and I suspect one of them (or both in combination) has caused the jump.

First, my Hippo Tang went rogue and started eating all my softies. Caught her and re-homed her two weeks ago. I did reduce how much I feed the tank a little.

Second, I ran out of room for my Acropora, so I build another rock ledge for the tank. I cured the rock with ammonia and bacteria for three weeks before I put it in the tank. At that time the rock tested zero ammonia, zero nitrite and 6.0 nitrate. I did not test PO4 while it was being cured.

Before removing the Hippo and adding the rocks, NO3 was 16.0 and PO4 was 0.15. Both extremely steady. Over the past two weeks (10 days since putting in the new rocks) NO3 is now 19.3 and PO4 has shot up to 0.39.

Other tank parameters are as follows:

Total water 190-200 gallons
Temp 79.1-80.5
Salinity. 35.0
PH. 8.2-8.45
Alk. 8.15
Ca. 400
mag. 1425

Could the rise in PO4 be from not reducing feeding enough, or will new rock in the tank leech out PO4 until it stabilizes in the tank? I do daily 2 gallon auto water changes, but should I increase that till the PO4 drops back down below 0.2? Photos of tank and new ledge structure.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Reefering1]

Hello Al, thanks again for the beautiful fish- she's is doing well!!
At 1st thought, I wouldn't think that small(comparatively) addition of rocks would leach that much p04. Did you test the bin water they came from? Test new salt water(verify results)? -David

 

[AKL1950]

Hello Al, thanks again for the beautiful fish- she's is doing well!!
At 1st thought, I wouldn't think that small(comparatively) addition of rocks would leach that much p04. Did you test the bin water they came from? Test new salt water(verify results)? -David

Hey David. Glad she’s doing well.

The rock was dry rock. I cured it in salt water from my tank. Last ATI water analysis was two weeks ago. Only issues was elevated trace elements. Pretty sure that was from daily water changes plus using KZ1234 additives. I stopped adding the KZ1234 two weeks ago as well.

 

[exnisstech]

I suspect the new rock. My latest build was mostly dry rock in the dysplay with some old live rock and a sump full also. Shortly after start up in late March PO4 was high then rose some more and then started to drop. At first I was going to take action and start gfo but was advised not to and to wait instead. I did wait and as you can see PO4 is coming down on its own. Maybe keep an eye on it for a while? These are my test results with no action used to reduce PO4

EDIT : Just for reference I've only done 3 water changes since start up. One 16g and two 24g with a total volume of 285g

 

[AKL1950]

I suspect the new rock. My latest build was mostly dry rock in the dysplay with some old live rock and a sump full also. Shortly after start up in late March PO4 was high then rose some more and then started to drop. At first I was going to take action and start gfo but was advised not to and to wait instead. I did wait and as you can see PO4 is coming down on its own. Maybe keep an eye on it for a while? These are my test results with no action used to reduce PO4

EDIT : Just for reference I've only done 3 water changes since start up. One 16g and two 24g with a total volume of 285g

That makes great sense. I had heard before that new dry rock would leech out PO4 until it stabilized to the tanks normal parameters. I’ll sit tight and just watch it for a few more weeks and see what happens. I’ll have to say, it seems the Acro’s really like it. They are getting much fuzzier now. Thanks!

 

[exnisstech]

That makes great sense. I had heard before that new dry rock would leech out PO4 until it stabilized to the tanks normal parameters. I’ll sit tight and just watch it for a few more weeks and see what happens. I’ll have to say, it seems the Acro’s really like it. They are getting much fuzzier now. Thanks!

They look awesome. Hopefully they stay that way when it start to come down or I would be tempted to dose it back up

 

[ReeferZ1227]

Hey David. Glad she’s doing well.

The rock was dry rock. I cured it in salt water from my tank. Last ATI water analysis was two weeks ago. Only issues was elevated trace elements. Pretty sure that was from daily water changes plus using KZ1234 additives. I stopped adding the KZ1234 two weeks ago as well.

I read somewhere that adequate zinc will enable bacteria to process no3/po4.

Zinc - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

Kz products definitely contain zinc and iodine. Perhaps your zinc depleted and that heavy consumption of po4 stopped. Also many users of kz products report a "withdrawal" period when abruptly stopping KZ products. Has alkalinity consumption reduced?

Most recently i had a po4 spike when i stopped dosing seachem reef trace, which is my key source of zinc. Po4 consumption resumed when i resumed seachem reef trace, perhaps coincidence.

It very well may have nothing to do with the rock.

You can always do a drop or two of lanathanum chloride to run ya back down to .15 and monitor/maintenance dose until it stabilizes, or dose some additional bacteria/concotion.

@Randy Holmes-Farley the fauna marin knowledge base makes many assertions related to the different components of sea water, specifically trace and heavy metals. Have you read through their knowledge base and do you have an opinion on their assertions? I will say my color and growth has significantly improved with more attention to trace and bacteria.

 

[AKL1950]

I read somewhere that adequate zinc will enable bacteria to process no3/po4.

Zinc - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

Kz products definitely contain zinc and iodine. Perhaps your zinc depleted and that heavy consumption of po4 stopped. Also many users of kz products report a "withdrawal" period when abruptly stopping KZ products. Has alkalinity consumption reduced?

Most recently i had a po4 spike when i stopped dosing seachem reef trace, which is my key source of zinc. Po4 consumption resumed when i resumed seachem reef trace, perhaps coincidence.

It very well may have nothing to do with the rock.

You can always do a drop or two of lanathanum chloride to run ya back down to .15 and monitor/maintenance dose until it stabilizes, or dose some additional bacteria/concotion.

@Randy Holmes-Farley the fauna marin knowledge base makes many assertions related to the different components of sea water, specifically trace and heavy metals. Have you read through their knowledge base and do you have an opinion on their assertions? I will say my color and growth has significantly improved with more attention to trace and bacteria.

Yes, have read most of Randy’s stuff. My concern was a lot of trace elements were getting way too high. Especially iodine. After I’ve been off the KZ1234 for a couple of months, I’ll do another water test and see where I stand. My PO4 has settled back down to its normal level. Pretty sure it was the intro of the new rock that caused the spike. Testing this morning was NO3 at 18.1 and PO4 at 0.18. Some would say that’s a little high for PO4, but I seem to get good Acro growth and PE at that level.

Now that the nutrients have settled, a new issue that’s popped up is calcium. Can’t seem to get it above 400. Checked my fresh saltwater for AWC and its at 450. I’m actually dosing more calcium than buffer now by 5ml a day. It stays between 375-400, so I’m just assuming the consumption from the corals has taken another jump up. Everything seems to be growing good.

 

[ReeferZ1227]

Yes, have read most of Randy’s stuff. My concern was a lot of trace elements were getting way too high. Especially iodine. After I’ve been off the KZ1234 for a couple of months, I’ll do another water test and see where I stand. My PO4 has settled back down to its normal level. Pretty sure it was the intro of the new rock that caused the spike. Testing this morning was NO3 at 18.1 and PO4 at 0.18. Some would say that’s a little high for PO4, but I seem to get good Acro growth and PE at that level.

Now that the nutrients have settled, a new issue that’s popped up is calcium. Can’t seem to get it above 400. Checked my fresh saltwater for AWC and its at 450. I’m actually dosing more calcium than buffer now by 5ml a day. It stays between 375-400, so I’m just assuming the consumption from the corals has taken another jump up. Everything seems to be growing good.

Glad to hear. Shane runs his po4 alot higher, and recommeneded .2-.4 in his tenuis thread. I like .1 or i get bubble algae from hell. The tiny little bubbles. Everytime above .1 and it happens like clockwork.

If you choose to resume kz, Ive been using the hanna nitrite tester with the red sea iodine reagents following this method:

AN ACCURATE AND PRECISE METHOD FOR MEASURING IODINE

ABOUT THE ARTICLE: The article describes an accurate and precise method and it's development, for measuring the level of Iodine in a saltwater aquarium. It is a follow-up to an article written in 2021. The current article describes an improved...

www.reef2reef.com

The nitrite tests have been reading .1 mg/l and my ATI two days ago had the same result.

 

[AKL1950]

Glad to hear. Shane runs his po4 alot higher, and recommeneded .2-.4 in his tenuis thread. I like .1 or i get bubble algae from hell. The tiny little bubbles. Everytime above .1 and it happens like clockwork.

If you choose to resume kz, Ive been using the hanna nitrite tester with the red sea iodine reagents following this method:

AN ACCURATE AND PRECISE METHOD FOR MEASURING IODINE

ABOUT THE ARTICLE: The article describes an accurate and precise method and it's development, for measuring the level of Iodine in a saltwater aquarium. It is a follow-up to an article written in 2021. The current article describes an improved...

www.reef2reef.com

The nitrite tests have been reading .1 mg/l and my ATI two days ago had the same result.

Roger that. I use it also, but it’s only good up to about 180. ATI is showing my Iodine at 1250. lol! And I thought I was just a little high. Doesn’t seem to hurt anything and I’ve had other say they have seen 1900 with no ill affects.

Before I started using KZ1234 my ATI results were always 95-97% in the groove. Since I started using KZ1234 it’s been coming back in the 60-65% range with all the once out of range being trace elements high. Hopefully my next test will be back in the grove above 95%.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I read somewhere that adequate zinc will enable bacteria to process no3/po4.

Zinc - Fauna Marin

www.faunamarin.de

Kz products definitely contain zinc and iodine. Perhaps your zinc depleted and that heavy consumption of po4 stopped. Also many users of kz products report a "withdrawal" period when abruptly stopping KZ products. Has alkalinity consumption reduced?

Most recently i had a po4 spike when i stopped dosing seachem reef trace, which is my key source of zinc. Po4 consumption resumed when i resumed seachem reef trace, perhaps coincidence.

It very well may have nothing to do with the rock.

You can always do a drop or two of lanathanum chloride to run ya back down to .15 and monitor/maintenance dose until it stabilizes, or dose some additional bacteria/concotion.

@Randy Holmes-Farley the fauna marin knowledge base makes many assertions related to the different components of sea water, specifically trace and heavy metals. Have you read through their knowledge base and do you have an opinion on their assertions? I will say my color and growth has significantly improved with more attention to trace and bacteria.

I have not read their knowledge base, and would not recommend anyone else rely on it. FM has a poor understanding of chemistry and makes many false claims.

Organisms need lots of trace elements to function properly. Zinc is one of many and there’s no reason to finger it alone. The iodine is unlikely, IMO. If you find that trace elements help, that’s not shocking, and I’d keep doing it.

 

[ReeferZ1227]

I have not read their knowledge base, and would not recommend anyone else rely on it. FM has a poor understanding of chemistry and makes many false claims.

Organisms need lots of trace elements to function properly. Zinc is one of many and there’s no reason to finger it alone. The iodine is unlikely, IMO. If you find that trace elements help, that’s not shocking, and I’d keep doing it.

As always, very much appreciate your input and thoughts.