My shared success with QT’ing fish

[mtraylor]

I wouldn't put live rock or algae in a QT tank. CP and Copper would kill the algae and inverts, and cause the water to foul.

As far as biological filtration, biomedia is cheap enough to keep a spare bag in your reef sump to stay seeded with bacteria. Heck, even crushed coral works. If I decide to empty the QT tank, I make sure to have a fresh bag or tupperware with some biomedia in my reef. Then in the future, I can easily spin up my QT with seeded bacteria if there's a fish I want to buy. I never return the biomedia back to the reef sump if it's been used in a QT. It's too risky if it happens to leach medications like copper, and like I said biomedia is cheap.

I would also suggest adding a seachem ammonia monitor: https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

I would also advocate treating with CP and Prazi at same time. This covers the most common ailments: Ich, Velvet, Brook, Flukes, and Worms.

Yeah I agree with your statement if I were using CP or Copper for my QT, but I'm not using those 2 meds. I like your setup as well. I have not had to use CP or Copper yet, but if I do I would use your method for biomedia. Thanks for sharing. I have always wondered how I would keep water quality up if I had to treat a fish with copper when setting up a quick Sick tank.

 

[Zeal]

We just going to ignore the drain valve he made for water changes? that's actually brilliant

 

[mtraylor]

Hows your success been with prazi? I had two clowns in QT for a month. After they were eating and comfortable i ran two rounds of prazi a week apart. Before the prazi i never noticed any scratching or strange begavior but figured i would run it anyways. Both times during the first 24-36 hours of prazi the fish were scratching here and there but continued to act happy, normal, and they ate well. I assumed they must of had some flukes and the prazi was doing its job. Fast forward a few weeks and they are in my DT doing just fine. On one occassion i noticed one fish scratch on the sand. And the other fish kind of freaked out during my first WC with them in the tank. It appeared that the dust stirred up from the sand irritated his gills for an hour or so or maybe i didnt airate the new water enough and it dropped the O2 levels enough to bother the fish. Either way they both seem perfectly fine. But it begs the question that maybe some flukes lived? I was halfway debating pulling them and putting them back in QT for more prazi or metro but i think thats extreme. Anyways, have you ever had to run more than 2 rounds of prazi? I think im just being paraniod, after all, i have observed them for hours and have only seen one fish scratch itself once or maybe twice in the past 3 weeks after the prazi. Fish can itch without having a parasite from time to time right? What bugs me is they were in QT for 2 weeks after prazi and i never saw any scratching at all but then i put them in the DT and saw it those couple times and my heart kind of sank to the floor...

My success with prazi pro has been very positive. The itching from prazi on some fish that you see is usually do to them having flukes and after the flukes detach, it leaves an itchy wound spot on the fish that has to heal. If you see the flukes on the fish before hand, you will notice that they always scratch and dart a bit when the prazi kills them off. I see this all the time. Its common. Now on some fish I do not see the flukes on, that start scratching I assume I just missed seeing them and they are doing the same thing or the medicine irritated their skin. Of course the fish that I don't see scratch at all, I usually assume they had no issues what so ever. My QT is usually bare bottom and you can find the flukes there as well if you look hard enough on bottom of glass.

With water changes, I have noticed that some fish do not take well to replacing say 50% immediately. I do the water change in stages. Say take 50% out then return the 50% in 3 intervals about an hour apart. This reduces the stress.

I only run the 2 rounds unless I missed the gustation period. The reason for the second round of prazi is to kill the newborns when they hatch. The gustation period for the fluke is approximately 7 days. So if you follow the directions on the bottle, you will be good. The first round of flukes if on the fish should usually perish around 48hours. Each day the medication reduces, so when you replenish it around say day 5, then you are ensure that any fluke that was hatched during these periods is exposed to meds and it will kill it. Now say if you did 5 day treatment and then waited 10 days to run the second treatment, it would be possible that the fish still had flukes because you didn't properly eradicate them.

 

[mtraylor]

Just an FYI there is no reason to use focus alone as it is a tool to bind medication to food, not a medication itself. Your qt process would also not treat ich or velvet, just FYI. You said you'd bind other meds with focus to take care of anything else but no meds you bind with focus will treat either of those.

Actually, Focus is a medication. Its an antibacterial polymer for internal infections of fish. It may be used alone or mixed with other medications. It treats fungal and bacterial infections all by itself.

Here is their website for info on the meds:
https://seachem.com/focus.php

If I have a fish with white poop, I usually just treat focus first alone until their poop goes to normal. Works like a charm. Yeah velvet, would be another discussion. I hope I don't run into that one.

 

[ca1ore]

@calore
How long do you think it would take to “seed” the matrix so it would help with ammonia reducing? And which Brightwell product are you referring to with the zeolites?
I had read somewhere someone recommended aquaforest Life Bio Fil. Not sure if this would really work in a new tank for qt purposes to reduce ammonia. Supposed to be already seeded with bacteria

I actually used to use matrix in a canister on my main system as a biomedia reservoir for my QT tanks. Now I just buy the cheap ceramic rings. They work just as well. Couple of weeks minimum. I was referring to the Neo-blah-blah stuff. Seem to recall it contains carbon and some kind of zeolite media.

 

[ca1ore]

We just going to ignore the drain valve he made for water changes? that's actually brilliant

Yes, it is a really nice way to make emptying a QT easy. Did the same on mind right into the slop sink - highly recommended.

 

[marcus aurelius]

Watching

 

[BigJohnny]

Actually, Focus is a medication. Its an antibacterial polymer for internal infections of fish. It may be used alone or mixed with other medications. It treats fungal and bacterial infections all by itself.

Here is their website for info on the meds:
https://seachem.com/focus.php

If I have a fish with white poop, I usually just treat focus first alone until their poop goes to normal. Works like a charm. Yeah velvet, would be another discussion. I hope I don't run into that one.

Wow I was wrong on that aspect, I am surprised it actually contains .1% nitrofurantoin which is an antibiotic but still no, its not meant to be used alone. It is supposed to just be a binder. I know they say it can be used alone but the actual dosing instructions say to add medication for your fishes specific infection, and that's the way experts use it. It's not its intended purpose to be used alone and the name "focus" exemplifies that by indicating it's a way to focus the medication into the gut of the fish by binding it to food.

Here's a quote from a seachem rep for reinforcement:

"Focus is not really a medication that should be used alone. It is more of a binder when using medicated food mixes. It simply binds whatever medication you are using to the food"

I believe in your case the prazi has been healing your fishes internal parasites more than the .1% of focus that is an antibiotic. It can't hurt though : ) either that or their white poop isn't internal parasites (stringy white poop almost always is but white poop not always) or it was just flaring up from stress of capture/transit etc and then settled down.

Prazipro is great for some internal parasites and then focus+metroplex is a good option for stubborn/other internals. Sometimes focus+metroplex+kanaplex is necessary. Here's a great write up by our resident qt expert @Humblefish:

Internal parasites/intestinal worms
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=267419&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

Internal parasites/intestinal worms

 

[mtraylor]

Wow I was wrong on that aspect, I am surprised it actually contains .1% nitrofurantoin which is an antibiotic but still no, its not meant to be used alone. It is supposed to just be a binder. I know they say it can be used alone but the actual dosing instructions say to add medication for your fishes specific infection, and that's the way experts use it. It's not its intended purpose to be used alone and the name "focus" exemplifies that by indicating it's a way to focus the medication into the gut of the fish by binding it to food.

Here's a quote from a seachem rep for reinforcement:

"Focus is not really a medication that should be used alone. It is more of a binder when using medicated food mixes. It simply binds whatever medication you are using to the food"

I believe in your case the prazi has been healing your fishes internal parasites more than the .1% of focus that is an antibiotic. It can't hurt though : ) either that or their white poop isn't internal parasites (stringy white poop almost always is but white poop not always) or it was just flaring up from stress of capture/transit etc and then settled down.

Prazipro is great for some internal parasites and then focus+metroplex is a good option for stubborn/other internals. Sometimes focus+metroplex+kanaplex is necessary. Here's a great write up by our resident qt expert @Humblefish:

Internal parasites/intestinal worms
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=267419&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

Internal parasites/intestinal worms

Thanks for the read. Yeah I believe your assessment is on point. The prazi usually does most of the work, only if I see things not progressing quick enough do I bind with metroplex which is a quick turn around on white poop. I keep a close eye on the fish and treat as according. I don't like to heavy medicate them if its not needed. I very rarely use kanaplex unless I seem something going on with a fish's eye or need a heavy med. Those are the three meds I keep stocked in the fish cabinet. "focus,metroplex, and kanaplex".

 

[payamsh]

Does Prazipro treat internal parasites if it’s dosed directly into the tank? Or do you need to soak it in food?

 

[payamsh]

Does Prazipro treat internal parasites if it’s dosed directly into the tank or does it need to be given as a food soak?

 

[mtraylor]

Does Prazipro treat internal parasites if it’s dosed directly into the tank or does it need to be given as a food soak?

Yes Prazipro treats internal parasites but it takes longer to get to the gut. Its placed in the water and not in the food. I usually go with the Prazi in the water and focus in the food to start with, if I see that the poop is not improving in a few days then I add metroplex with the focus to the food. It will clean the internal parasites up pretty quick since the food goes right to the gut.

 

[BigJohnny]

Thanks for the read. Yeah I believe your assessment is on point. The prazi usually does most of the work, only if I see things not progressing quick enough do I bind with metroplex which is a quick turn around on white poop. I keep a close eye on the fish and treat as according. I don't like to heavy medicate them if its not needed. I very rarely use kanaplex unless I seem something going on with a fish's eye or need a heavy med. Those are the three meds I keep stocked in the fish cabinet. "focus,metroplex, and kanaplex".

Yes metroplex is more appropriate for internal parasites that prazi doesn't treat than focus alone.

 

[BigJohnny]

Does Prazipro treat internal parasites if it’s dosed directly into the tank or does it need to be given as a food soak?

It only treats some.

 

[Wilsonfeliz]

Very helpful!
thanks

 

[MnFish1]

No offense - this is not a quarantine tank. It is an internal parasite/treatment tank. Unless I'm missing something. I know the conventional wisdom here is not to criticize - and I guess I'm not - but this is not a quarantine method for the parasites that most people care about (ich/velvet). If you had that disclaimer I would have given you 5 stars...

 

[FinnyGyrrl]

Your success with this method makes me believe that reducing internal parasites along with a low-stress introduction period, can keep fish immune systems well functioning. Perhaps ridding fish of parasites first would make fish more resistant to other maladies.
Personally, I like freshwater dips, too! Afterwards, fish look like they're saying "aaaah"!

 

[Adele]

Good info, for if/when I add fish to my system again, but hold the phone! ;Stop.....Drain on the tank?....Brilliant!! You could even drill another at the level of the % water change you expect to do regularly and just open it up and walk away. It would only empty to the level of the drain. I have an old 29 gal on the back porch that I might have to experiment with.

 

[mtraylor]

No offense - this is not a quarantine tank. It is an internal parasite/treatment tank. Unless I'm missing something. I know the conventional wisdom here is not to criticize - and I guess I'm not - but this is not a quarantine method for the parasites that most people care about (ich/velvet). If you had that disclaimer I would have given you 5 stars...

None taken. Its a quarantine tank. A quarantine tank is a separate system where you can observe and treat new fish intended for your display in an isolated environment to reduce stress on the new fish and prevent disease, etc from being spread to your main display. This is exactly what I'm doing. My intention here is to share my experience on what I'm treating for and how I'm treating the animals for a low stress and less medicated environment. Mainly what I have seen on fish that I have treated is internal/external parasites, bacteria infections and flukes. The regiment that I"m sharing takes care of the majority of issues that I have seen with fish. This doesn't mean that the fish will not get treated with anything else if its not warranted.

I have been a reefer for a long time and TBO I think I have only seen one bad outbreak of ich on my fish and that was like 20 years ago before I started QT'ing. As far as velvet, I have never seen that issue, but one of more local reef buddies has and I have helped him with those fish. Nothing better than a fresh water dip for those fish and some copper treatment.

That being said, I do not fresh water dip my fish nor do I use copper treatment on them for the just in case scenario's. If one should show that they need these treatments during QT, then of course they will get it. I hope this helps explain.

 

[mtraylor]

Your success with this method makes me believe that reducing internal parasites along with a low-stress introduction period, can keep fish immune systems well functioning. Perhaps ridding fish of parasites first would make fish more resistant to other maladies.
Personally, I like freshwater dips, too! Afterwards, fish look like they're saying "aaaah"!

I think so. Ridding the fish of internal/external parasites and flukes seems to keep their immune systems very strong.

I"m with you on fresh water dips on fish that have severe issues. Its the best way to eradicate immediately and give them some relief. Only Issue with this sometimes is the slime coat on the fish and stress, but if a fish is bad off its the only alternative because slow methods will not be fast enough.