My only tang, Powder Blue, is attacking the Foxface. Get another tang? - VIDEO

[static416]

Recently got a large Powder Blue tang for my 5 foot, 160gal display. Taken out of QT and added about a week ago.

It's probably 7 inches long to the tail. Very pretty, and fat.

Right now it's the only tang in the tank, and it's taken to beating up the next-largest fish. My Magnificent Foxface, which is about the same size.

I did not expect this. I've had lots of tangs, and I figured if it was the only tang, it would be fine. I thought maybe it would bug my Copperband or Moorish Idol, but it ignores those completely. I guess it's going after what it thinks is its closest rival.

Thing is, the Foxface just isn't aggressive enough to properly defend itself. The Powder Blue is not overly rough in the context of tangs, but the poor Foxface just takes it and tries to get out of the way.

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So, to the question.

Should I get another tang, perhaps a medium-sized Purple Tang, to be a proper rival for the Powder Blue? Would that be likely to redirect the aggression to something that can handle it?

Some video of Powder attacking Foxy. (I'm not very imaginative with names)

It's especially bad just before night.

 

[static416]

The other concern is just overall stocking.

Currently have:
- Moorish Idol
- Copperband
- Male and Female Bluethroat
- Powder Blue
- Magnificent Foxface

And a bunch of little guys.

In a 5 foot, 160gal Waterbox.

Adding a Purple Tang that will eventually get 6-7 inches, seems like a lot.

 

[exnisstech]

I'm not the tang police but that tank looks small with those 2 fish in there. I think to have success with tangs in general it works better to grow them out together. I would never drop a large powder blue in that tank and expect it not to go after everything. Sorry not really helping. I do keep tangs and have kept them with a magnificent with little to know aggression. I currently have a naso, purple, yellow, convict, and hippo with zero aggression in one tank. But I grew then out from juveniles. I am in the process of moving them to an 84x30x25 tank because I feel they current 72x24x24 is too small. JMO

 

[Rp8]

Agree with above. Try a mirror on the glass to distract. It should distract from the foxface to give him a break. Were you rehoming this fish? He is definitely trying to dominate this new space. Good luck hope the mirror helps

 

[static416]

Yeah that's why I'm asking if adding another will calm things down, or make them worse.

In the 120gal beside this one, I have a medium Tomini that was beating on a much larger Maroon clown. Adding a small Yellow Tang calmed the whole situation down, as they focused an appropriate level of aggression on each other, rather than pounding the clown.

So that's sort of the motivation for the question. It worked in another case.

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On the sizing issue, I know many people keep far more tangs in smaller tanks, but I'm at least attempting to be in the realm of reasonable. I was trying to avoid two of them. I figured a single tang in a 160gal tank seemed reasonable.

So was wondering if the idea of redirection would address the aggression issue even in theory. And then I'd separately consider if it was a good idea in this particular situation.

I currently have a naso, purple, yellow, convict, and hippo with zero aggression in one tank. But I grew then out from juveniles. I am in the process of moving them to an 84x30x25 tank because I feel they current 72x24x24 is too small. JMO

I don't really want to get into a back-and-forth, but I can't help but point out that's its a bit ironic to critique a single tang in a 60" x 30" x 30" tank, when you have 5 (2 of which get quite large) in a tank that's only 12" longer and 20gal bigger.

Specifically the Naso, while I don't think 84" is unreasonable for a smaller one, my friend has a 12 foot tank with two adult Naso's and they basically do laps. Any tank is going to be more restrictive than the ocean for free-swimming species like tangs.

And I would definitely get a larger tank if I could, but this is pretty much the limit for my home without knocking down walls.

 

[piranhaman00]

tank is so small

 

[littlefoxx]

The powder blue will need to go before it kills your foxface. Mine (only 2 inches) killed a tusk fish and then went after all my other fish. This wont stop until its the last one standing unfortunately. Mine terrorized all my fish and I had to pull her and get rid of her. Now I have no aggression issues. And no I would not add a purple tang to that tank with that powder blue. It will kill the purple tang. These fish are nasty… really the only thing you can do is remove the bully (the powder blue). Replace with the purple, while purples can be mean its no where near what those monsters are

 

[static416]

He is definitely trying to dominate this new space. Good luck hope the mirror helps

He doesn't do it continually. Just for about a half-hour around bed-time as the lights dim. Rest of the time everyone is chill. I work in the same room all day.

Maybe I'll just make the lights dim faster.

Were you rehoming this fish?

Nope. It was a bit bigger than I wanted, but very healthy, and unexpectedly very inexpensive. This one LFS has odd pricing at times, and I wanted this species, so I took advantage of it. Often the small ones seem like they may not make it.

For the first 3-4 days it showed none of this. It was just chill. But it seems to be trying to set some boundaries.

I'll be adding a bunch of rock this weekend to try and provide more cover, that may also help the situation.

 

[static416]

The powder blue will need to go before it kills your foxface. Mine (only 2 inches) killed a tusk fish and then went after all my other fish.

Wow, ok.

I'll say that I didn't realize that Powders were that bad compared to the others. My previous purple was pretty rough with my Tomini at first, but it evened out after a few days.

 

[static416]

tank is so small

I mean, it's a 160gal tank? That seems pretty large by most measures? Maybe it's just the size of the two and how fast they are moving.

But agree it's not enough space if they are going to be going at each other full speed like this.

 

[exnisstech]

I don't really want to get into a back-and-forth, but I can't help but point out that's its a bit ironic to critique a single tang in a 60" x 30" x 30" tank, when you have 5 (2 of which get quite large) in a tank that's only 12" longer and 20gal bigger.

This will be my last reply because I don't want to go back and forth either. As to adding a purple to the mix. Absolutely not. The only solution I see is removing the PB.

These are my tangs. Notice a difference in the behavior? It's because they all grew up together. IMO it's just asking for trouble adding a 7 inch PB to a 5ft tank with that poor magnificent. I won't bore you with how I feel about animals under my care. I wish you luck and hope things settle down and these two fish become best buds.

 

[static416]

Mine terrorized all my fish and I had to pull her and get rid of her.

Alright, I'll give it a bit, but I can likely pull it if this continues for much longer. Very food motivated, so should be easier to trap.

I can say that there are no marks on the Foxface. The Powder doesn't seem to be making contact, but it does do this for a half-hour the last two nights.

 

[static416]

As to adding a purple to the mix. Absolutely not. The only solution I see is removing the PB.

Yeah I'll give it a few more days and see which direction things are moving.

I'm not opposed to the idea.

And I understand what you are suggesting about raising them together. It makes sense, it's just that it's not the situation I'm in at the moment.

 

[littlefoxx]

Alright, I'll give it a bit, but I can likely pull it if this continues for much longer. Very food motivated, so should be easier to trap.

I can say that there are no marks on the Foxface. The Powder doesn't seem to be making contact, but it does do this for a half-hour the last two nights.

Yeah mine was fine for a few months then killed my tusk, then started literally hunting my other fish. The purple tang never left its cave, my regal was cowering and my triggerfish wouldnt even come out. My magnificent wouldnt eat it. I woke up one morning to her hunting my biota yellow tang (the size of a quarter) and circling him non stop. I had to remove. Switched her out for a hippo who is the calmest fish I have and gets along with everyone no issues.

 

[JayM]

I don’t think I’d wait a few more days. It seems that 30 minutes of being terrorized every night with nowhere to hide could stress that Foxface to death.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah I'll give it a few more days and see which direction things are moving.

I'm not opposed to the idea.

And I understand what you are suggesting about raising them together. It makes sense, it's just that it's not the situation I'm in at the moment.

You will find the powder blue in general is a very nasty fish and will usually not simmer down in behavior. Im not going to discuss mine as every fish will have their own Behavorial pattern and issues. I understand desire to retain fish and observe but dont have high expectations.

 

[static416]

Yeah mine was fine for a few months then killed my tusk, then started literally hunting my other fish.

Interesting. I honestly thought I knew what I was doing, but I somehow didn't know PBT's where that aggressive. Looking around, some people actually rank them the most aggressive of all, even ahead of Achilles.

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In this case, I guess part of the reason I'm trying to be optimistic is that the aggression seems more in passing, than persistent. (For the moment anyways).

Bit hard to describe, but it seems to be chasing the Foxface as a passing idea when it goes by, not a fixation. It'll stop and eat for a bit, swim around, and ignore the Foxface. Then take another swing in passing if it's the last hour of the day.

For comparison, when I added a small Purple to a tank with a Tomini, the purple absolutely attacked the Tomini constantly for the first day or two. It was non-stop and intended to be violent. The Tomini had cuts, and I was getting ready to break the whole tank down to separate them.

Then they suddenly decided it was fine, and it was not an issue again for the following two years until I moved.

 

[static416]

I don’t think I’d wait a few more days. It seems that 30 minutes of being terrorized every night with nowhere to hide could stress that Foxface to death.

Yeah I mean, that's my concern. Foxface are nervous/shy fish to begin with in my experience. At least other tangs fight back and establish an understanding in some cases. This Foxface is just too passive.

I guess I'll ready the trap tomorrow. Unfortunate.

 

[littlefoxx]

Interesting. I honestly thought I knew what I was doing, but I somehow didn't know PBT's where that aggressive. Looking around, some people actually rank them the most aggressive of all, even ahead of Achilles.

---

In this case, I guess part of the reason I'm trying to be optimistic is that the aggression seems more in passing, than persistent. (For the moment anyways).

Bit hard to describe, but it seems to be chasing the Foxface as a passing idea when it goes by, not a fixation. It'll stop and eat for a bit, swim around, and ignore the Foxface. Then take another swing in passing if it's the last hour of the day.

For comparison, when I added a small Purple to a tank with a Tomini, the purple absolutely attacked the Tomini constantly for the first day or two. It was non-stop and intended to be violent. The Tomini had cuts, and I was getting ready to break the whole tank down to separate them.

Then they suddenly decided it was fine, and it was not an issue again for the following two years until I moved.

Yeah thats pretty normal for most tangs. Not the PBT… and yes most rank them the nastiest of the tangs, up there with a shoal. If I were you I would probably research the fish more before buying, this fish’s aggression level is one of the first things talked about… I also agree with not waiting. I waited and lost a fish overnight to the PBT. I tore my tank up (corals and all when I had them in that tank) to get rid of that fish.

 

[Chrisv.]

You will find the powder blue in general is a very nasty fish and will usually not simmer down in behavior. Im not going to discuss mine as every fish will have their own Behavorial pattern and issues. I understand desire to retain fish and observe but dont have high expectations.

Seconding this. I had one that was peaceful for like 6 years and then one day he went nuts and bullied his tank mates to death in a matter of a week. Thing was a straight up murder tang. Rehomed him to an 8 foot tank and he tried pulling the same nonsense, and eventually it ended up spending the rest of his days as the only fish in a frag tank. Meanest SOB I've ever had in my tank.