Moorish Idol/ coral beauty being picked on or fin rot?

[vetteguy53081]

To me (@vetteguy53081) the dorsal fin has a missing/damaged portion maybe 2/3 from the tail. Something (infection/biting, etc) - is damaging the fin. The fact that there is the black area - in that part of the fin - suggests 'damage' rather than an infection thats progressing from the end. PS - The fish looks thin to me. JMHO. @Jay Hemdal

I agree and can be nipping or bacterial.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ammonia is zero nitrite is zero ph is 7.8-8.0 nitrate is 5-10 ppm on API saltwater test kit as I can’t afford the good kits atm. I doesed the ich with pylop lab medic and it worked and killed all the ich in abt 3-4 weeks

Reason I asked about water- I suspected API kits and Understand your position.
What you can do is take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use API kits and have them test for you to see what readings they come up with so you can react to any unusual numbers accordingly. Just want to see these guys thrive for you.

 

[jmanzzz]

Reason I asked about water- I suspected API kits and Understand your position.
What you can do is take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use API kits and have them test for you to see what readings they come up with so you can react to any unusual numbers accordingly. Just want to see these guys thrive for you.

I’ve brought the water to lfs and anytime I get my water tested there it has always matched my readings. The idol lost almost all of that fin mass in about a 24 hour span? Can fin rot of infections work that fast? Could he just be deteriorating from lack of nutrition?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ve brought the water to lfs and anytime I get my water tested there it has always matched my readings. The idol lost almost all of that fin mass in about a 24 hour span? Can fin rot of infections work that fast? Could he just be deteriorating from lack of nutrition?

Water quality and nutrition will be contributors. Your LFS - Do you know what kits they are using ?
As for diet:
-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health

 

[jmanzzz]

Water quality and nutrition will be contributors. Your LFS - Do you know what kits they are using ?
As for diet:
-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health

Water quality is not a problem but from what your saying nutrition is the problem as I have had trouble eating

 

[jmanzzz]

Water quality is not a problem but from what your saying nutrition is the problem as I have had trouble eating

The fish has trouble eating not me lol

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish has trouble eating not me lol

Just jumping in here late - I think the moorish is getting its dorsal bitten. These fins are really strange - its like they use it as a flag to attract other fish to bite at it (avoiding more critical areas of the fish). The dorsal fin can also grow back really fast, I've seen the soft streamer develop as much as an 1" a day.

Here are the issues: as somebody mentioned, the fish likely have flukes (monogeneans). I saw some twitching on the fish that indicate that. Also, in one shot, the moorish has diffuse white spots on its pectoral fins, that is how they often show ich. Also the idol is really thin.

So - what to do? It's going to be tough. You need to identify who is attacking the idol (I saw two idols in one picture, that wasn't yours was it?) If not a second idol, then I would suspect the big purple tang I saw in one other image.

Then, I would dose with Prazipro. Better still would be to move the fish to a treatment tank, give them a FW dip, then copper and then prazipro (basically a full quarantine).

Jay

 

[jmanzzz]

Just jumping in here late - I think the moorish is getting its dorsal bitten. These fins are really strange - its like they use it as a flag to attract other fish to bite at it (avoiding more critical areas of the fish). The dorsal fin can also grow back really fast, I've seen the soft streamer develop as much as an 1" a day.

Here are the issues: as somebody mentioned, the fish likely have flukes (monogeneans). I saw some twitching on the fish that indicate that. Also, in one shot, the moorish has diffuse white spots on its pectoral fins, that is how they often show ich. Also the idol is really thin.

So - what to do? It's going to be tough. You need to identify who is attacking the idol (I saw two idols in one picture, that wasn't yours was it?) If not a second idol, then I would suspect the big purple tang I saw in one other image.

Then, I would dose with Prazipro. Better still would be to move the fish to a treatment tank, give them a FW dip, then copper and then prazipro (basically a full quarantine).

Jay

The pics with more than one idol are not mine and the purple tang was only added 24 hours ago and the damage began over that timeframe. The dorsal has been stripped to the bone since my last reply. Can an infection ruin a fish that quick?

 

[Fishfreak2009]

The pics with more than one idol are not mine and the purple tang was only added 24 hours ago and the damage began over that timeframe. The dorsal has been stripped to the bone since my last reply. Can an infection ruin a fish that quick?

The dorsal fin on the moorish is not from infection. Someone is chewing it, probably the purple tang or if there is a wrasse I would bet on that, and they will also erode away if the fish isn't eating/wasting away.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The pics with more than one idol are not mine and the purple tang was only added 24 hours ago and the damage began over that timeframe. The dorsal has been stripped to the bone since my last reply. Can an infection ruin a fish that quick?

So - I still think the fin damage on the moorish began with some mechanical damage. That is most often another fish. Still, any mechanical damage can break the skin, allowing bacteria to enter the tissue. Some of these are pretty virulent and spread quickly. If you are 100% sure it is not currently being tagged by another fish, then that is likely what has happened. Treating with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic would be one course of action.

Jay

 

[jmanzzz]

So - I still think the fin damage on the moorish began with some mechanical damage. That is most often another fish. Still, any mechanical damage can break the skin, allowing bacteria to enter the tissue. Some of these are pretty virulent and spread quickly. If you are 100% sure it is not currently being tagged by another fish, then that is likely what has happened. Treating with a broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic would be one course of action.

Jay

Thank you for the reply and I will be setting up a camera when I get home to see if there is any aggression, as I’m expecting my tomani tang to be the culprit. If it’s not aggression I’ll try these products out, but should I treat anyway to prevent an infection if it’s not infected already?

 

[jmanzzz]

The dorsal fin on the moorish is not from infection. Someone is chewing it, probably the purple tang or if there is a wrasse I would bet on that, and they will also erode away if the fish isn't eating/wasting away.

The purple tang is not someone I’m am suspecting heavily as he is not established in the tank and the attacks seem to happen at night where my melenarus wrasse burrows under the sand at night. I am heavily suspecting my overly aggressive/ territorial tomani tang

 

[jmanzzz]

Update: I have set up a 20g qt tank with the idol and the coral beauty and am medicating with a vitamin B-12 supplement as well as an anti bacterial medication

 

[Duncan62]

No you can also just sit there - a video is a good solution - but - if you like you're tank. just watch it. BTW - there are a number of other questions - since Moorish Idols are notorious for being extremely hard to keep -

1. Your experience.
2. The age of your tank.
3. Where you got the fish from? (quarantine or not) - hate to make a snap judgement on a picture.
4. You're new here - so welcome. Hopefully we can help. To me - it looks like the idol has lesions on his pectoral fins. - but it may be the background - need more info

My tangs will absolutely stop grazing and keep their nose to the glass if I'm in the room. No mater how still I sit. I have to watch the fish from the door across the room. Lol