Monitoring solution

[Carbonator]

Hey everybody! I love this project as it fit's my needs to have a powerful system without paying big bucks for some closed system.

Before I pull the trigger on a robo-tank setup, i'd love validation of my idea for a 'monitor only' setup. My logic is that the systems that take control automations should be independent of the systems that detect errors and report them.

so this is what my system would look like on the 'control' side:
- whatever ato
- whatever heater
- noopsyke lights
- wave engine
- all the other basic reef equipment that's not connected to apex/whatever

Then on the 'monitor' side, I'd have the reef-pi collect data and report it to home-assistant, which would be able to send alerts, or take immediate action by shutting off outlets of my kasa power bar.

So for sensors, i'd have:
- e-tape in sump
- e-tape in ato reservoir
- maybe e-tape in dosing containers too
- PH meter
- flow meter on return line
- maybe ORP meter to detect a death or something

Do you think this is possible? From what i've been reading, it looks like it. But i'm not 100% sure on what sensors are compatible.

Thoughts?

 

[Sral]

Hey everybody! I love this project as it fit's my needs to have a powerful system without paying big bucks for some closed system.

Before I pull the trigger on a robo-tank setup, i'd love validation of my idea for a 'monitor only' setup. My logic is that the systems that take control automations should be independent of the systems that detect errors and report them.

so this is what my system would look like on the 'control' side:
- whatever ato
- whatever heater
- noopsyke lights
- wave engine
- all the other basic reef equipment that's not connected to apex/whatever

Then on the 'monitor' side, I'd have the reef-pi collect data and report it to home-assistant, which would be able to send alerts, or take immediate action by shutting off outlets of my kasa power bar.

So for sensors, i'd have:
- e-tape in sump
- e-tape in ato reservoir
- maybe e-tape in dosing containers too
- PH meter
- flow meter on return line
- maybe ORP meter to detect a death or something

Do you think this is possible? From what i've been reading, it looks like it. But i'm not 100% sure on what sensors are compatible.

Thoughts?

I'm not that experienced with the Home-Assistant side of things, but the sensors should all be doable. I had to look up the e-tape sensor, but if that puts out a PWM or AnalogSignal that is doable as well, even though ReefPi has currently no direct PWM measurement. You would need a method to measure an analogVoltage, either an ADS1015 or ADS1115 via I2C or use the new ESP32 driver over WiFi. Altough I have to say that the ESP32 currently needs a bit of tinkering, since the ADC on it is somewhat lackluster.

Flowmeter is a standard for ReefPi. You will need some components to shift the signal voltage to 3.3.V but that is easy.

pH and ORP meter are almost identical, both basically measure a small voltage and need to be isolated. You can by some sensor boards from AtlasInstruments, but they are quite expensive and you have to buy the isolation extra.
You can also get a pH sensor board from robo-tank. He is currently designing another version, where you can use the same sensor circuit, but connect an ORP probe. Once that is out, buy two circuits and you can measure pH with the one and ORP with the other.

 

[theatrus]

Nothing wrong with the approach a lot to like - its easy to swap parts and one failure won't bring down everything.

I've experimented with the etape before and found it finicky, but your mileage may vary. Plan for a backup float switch as well, especially for anything like sump level control.

The standard etape is a variable resistance measurement, so you'll build a voltage divider and likely want a buffer op-amp before feeding to an ADC. As @Sral said, the ESP32 ADC is really not for any precision measurement tasks, but it may be enough for what you want. I don't remember what the analog inputs to the robotank are like but if the sampling is slow enough and the input buffer is large enough you'll be fine with that.

 

[Sral]

Nothing wrong with the approach a lot to like - its easy to swap parts and one failure won't bring down everything.

I've experimented with the etape before and found it finicky, but your mileage may vary. Plan for a backup float switch as well, especially for anything like sump level control.

The standard etape is a variable resistance measurement, so you'll build a voltage divider and likely want a buffer op-amp before feeding to an ADC. As @Sral said, the ESP32 ADC is really not for any precision measurement tasks, but it may be enough for what you want. I don't remember what the analog inputs to the robotank are like but if the sampling is slow enough and the input buffer is large enough you'll be fine with that.

Quick question, as it popped up in the main thread as well: how do you configure your backup float switches in ReefPi ?

I just looked up the e-tape sensor: if you can only get the voltage divider version you can make it work directly with the ESP32, or the external analogDigitalConverterBoard ADS1015 or ADS1115. You would build a voltage divider as such:

With the ESP32 you would only need to watch out that the voltage stays between 0.15V and 2.4V, but that should be easy. For a Resistance range of the E-tape of:
R_min = 100 Ohm
R_max = 900 Ohm
You would take for example a 1k resistor as R1 and end up between 0.3V and 1.6V.
Similar for example with a range of 400-4000 Ohm, if R1 is 4 k then the voltage is between 0.3V and 1.6V.

 

[robsworld78]

Unfortunately Robo-Tank doesn't have any analog inputs as they aren't available on the Pi. I've thought about adding an ADS1015 but it's another I2C device and most people can get away with digital inputs. If the e-tape has the appropriate circuit @Sral and @theatrus are referring to and you connect it to the controller it would only read on or off, you wouldn't know the actual level. As the controller comes it's compatible with float switches, optical sensors and non-contact sensors that check water level through the glass, those are good for reservoirs and such. It's possible to connect other sensors but they may require an extra resistor. The controller does have backup float switch ports that bypasses the Pi on all the DC ports and 2 AC outlets, these are good for ATO or other important equipment. As you'll have a standalone ATO this would add an extra layer of protection. Your heater could also work like this using reef-pi controls and the heater controller or internal thermostat.

 

[theatrus]

Unfortunately Robo-Tank doesn't have any analog inputs as they aren't available on the Pi. I've thought about adding an ADS1015 but it's another I2C device and most people can get away with digital inputs. If the e-tape has the appropriate circuit @Sral and @theatrus are referring to and you connect it to the controller it would only read on or off, you wouldn't know the actual level. As the controller comes it's compatible with float switches, optical sensors and non-contact sensors that check water level through the glass, those are good for reservoirs and such. It's possible to connect other sensors but they may require an extra resistor. The controller does have backup float switch ports that bypasses the Pi on all the DC ports and 2 AC outlets, these are good for ATO or other important equipment. As you'll have a standalone ATO this would add an extra layer of protection. Your heater could also work like this using reef-pi controls and the heater controller or internal thermostat.

I misremembered - thanks!

I agree analog inputs are... usually special case in this area. Barely any sensors will interface with the standard industrial stuff (4-20mA, 0-10V) so it requires analog input work anyway.

 

[theatrus]

Quick question, as it popped up in the main thread as well: how do you configure your backup float switches in ReefPi ?

I just looked up the e-tape sensor: if you can only get the voltage divider version you can make it work directly with the ESP32, or the external analogDigitalConverterBoard ADS1015 or ADS1115. You would build a voltage divider as such:

With the ESP32 you would only need to watch out that the voltage stays between 0.15V and 2.4V, but that should be easy. For a Resistance range of the E-tape of:
R_min = 100 Ohm
R_max = 900 Ohm
You would take for example a 1k resistor as R1 and end up between 0.3V and 1.6V.
Similar for example with a range of 400-4000 Ohm, if R1 is 4 k then the voltage is between 0.3V and 1.6V.

The pedantic side of me says "this will work, but"... you'll get better results using a differential amplifier or at least compensating for the fixed resistance (such as temperature effects).

(Disclaimer: build the thing first from the above circuit before worrying about this, this is just me being pedantic on the internet. It will probably work great for your purposes!)

Its mentioned in their datasheet: https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/6e...697bb/downloads/Standard eTape Data Sheet.pdf

They (did, part shortages) sell a 0-5V converter board https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/6e...445697bb/downloads/0-5V Module Data Sheet.pdf, based on the TI PGA900, which implements a bridge differential amplifier. However, the PGA900 is still unobtanium.

 

[Sral]

The pedantic side of me says "this will work, but"... you'll get better results using a differential amplifier or at least compensating for the fixed resistance (such as temperature effects).

(Disclaimer: build the thing first from the above circuit before worrying about this, this is just me being pedantic on the internet. It will probably work great for your purposes!)

Its mentioned in their datasheet: https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/6e1bce17-f4fa-40c3-9d89-9bb7445697bb/downloads/Standard eTape Data Sheet.pdf

They (did, part shortages) sell a 0-5V converter board https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/6e1bce17-f4fa-40c3-9d89-9bb7445697bb/downloads/0-5V Module Data Sheet.pdf, based on the TI PGA900, which implements a bridge differential amplifier. However, the PGA900 is still unobtanium.

I know what you mean, personally I'm typically very paranoid about isolation, backups and safety, to the point that I overcomplicate things way too much sometimes ^^

The datasheet and app note on Adafruit also mentions an example plot on the last page, where one can see quite high deviations from experiment to experiment (around 10% maybe ?), so I guess one doesn't need pinpoint accuracy on the voltage measurement.

 

[aleksanderalski]

Hey everybody! I love this project as it fit's my needs to have a powerful system without paying big bucks for some closed system.

Before I pull the trigger on a robo-tank setup, i'd love validation of my idea for a 'monitor only' setup. My logic is that the systems that take control automations should be independent of the systems that detect errors and report them.

so this is what my system would look like on the 'control' side:
- whatever ato
- whatever heater
- noopsyke lights
- wave engine
- all the other basic reef equipment that's not connected to apex/whatever

Then on the 'monitor' side, I'd have the reef-pi collect data and report it to home-assistant, which would be able to send alerts, or take immediate action by shutting off outlets of my kasa power bar.

So for sensors, i'd have:
- e-tape in sump
- e-tape in ato reservoir
- maybe e-tape in dosing containers too
- PH meter
- flow meter on return line
- maybe ORP meter to detect a death or something

Do you think this is possible? From what i've been reading, it looks like it. But i'm not 100% sure on what sensors are compatible.

Thoughts?

Check Reef Factory equipment. Correct me if I am wrong, but from your post I see that you are looking for overall automation. Simpler and less time consuming it will be the better.

Having that in mind Reef Factory system gives you flexibility and control from one app. Notifications, safe range for parameters, calendar and remote control from every place in the world.

Check yourself: https://www.reeffactory.com/index.html?state=home

If you have questions, I am here to help

 

[Carbonator]

Check Reef Factory equipment. Correct me if I am wrong, but from your post I see that you are looking for overall automation. Simpler and less time consuming it will be the better.

Having that in mind Reef Factory system gives you flexibility and control from one app. Notifications, safe range for parameters, calendar and remote control from every place in the world.

Check yourself: https://www.reeffactory.com/index.html?state=home

If you have questions, I am here to help

reef factory looks pretty useful! I like the pattern of each unit coming together to show an entire system in one place. Redsea is also building in this direction and i really like it. Does it have an api? Also where can i buy in canada?

 

[Carbonator]

About the e-tape, I think you all convinced me not to do it lol. I've done some soldering and what not, but i don't have the time/energy right now to build a circuit and housing. If somebody offered it prebuilt, i'd buy that and go with it. I wonder though, what does apex do for their e-tape solution? does their little board at the top convert to a 0-10v or something? Maybe it's easier to buy the apex ones and work with that?

 

[ColoredRock]

reef factory looks pretty useful! I like the pattern of each unit coming together to show an entire system in one place. Redsea is also building in this direction and i really like it. Does it have an api? Also where can i buy in canada?

Me too.. the app and the build quality look pretty good..

Check Reef Factory equipment. Correct me if I am wrong, but from your post I see that you are looking for overall automation. Simpler and less time consuming it will be the better.

Having that in mind Reef Factory system gives you flexibility and control from one app. Notifications, safe range for parameters, calendar and remote control from every place in the world.

Check yourself: https://www.reeffactory.com/index.html?state=home

If you have questions, I am here to help

I also have the same question.. does ReefFactory have an API.. can you export metrics? Can you add other equipment into the ReefFactory echo system? Or are you limited to the products that ReefFactory produces? Which again look very nice.

Edit:

Also it would be awesome if other manufactures would start to support IOT.. like what is being talked about here...

Community based MQTT standard

I use a bunch of home brew development currently. So not a Reef-Pi user. What I have found though is that MQTT is very effective to solicit communication and cooperation between disparate systems. This got me to wondering of any thought had been given to setting up a MQTT standard schema that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[crusso1993]

About the e-tape, I think you all convinced me not to do it lol. I've done some soldering and what not, but i don't have the time/energy right now to build a circuit and housing. If somebody offered it prebuilt, i'd buy that and go with it. I wonder though, what does apex do for their e-tape solution? does their little board at the top convert to a 0-10v or something? Maybe it's easier to buy the apex ones and work with that?

Me too.. the app and the build quality look pretty good..


I also have the same question.. does ReefFactory have an API.. can you export metrics? Can you add other equipment into the ReefFactory echo system? Or are you limited to the products that ReefFactory produces? Which again look very nice.

Edit:

Also it would be awesome if other manufactures would start to support IOT.. like what is being talked about here...

Community based MQTT standard

I use a bunch of home brew development currently. So not a Reef-Pi user. What I have found though is that MQTT is very effective to solicit communication and cooperation between disparate systems. This got me to wondering of any thought had been given to setting up a MQTT standard schema that...

www.reef2reef.com

The ReefFactory does look nice and solidly built. It also looks to be only available in Europe. Additionally, did you happen to take a look at the price list? It easily defeats any thought of having a system “without paying big bucks” as you put it @Carbonator not to mention the experience and fun of building your own.

 

[Carbonator]

The ReefFactory does look nice and solidly built. It also looks to be only available in Europe. Additionally, did you happen to take a look at the price list? It easily defeats any thought of having a system “without paying big bucks” as you put it @Carbonator not to mention the experience and fun of building your own.

yeah, it'll for sure add up, but since it's modular, you can only buy in to the things you need. Its definitely in apex price range.

On the distrubutors page, the map has some pins in the US, one of which is https://www.championlighting.com

 

[theatrus]

Things I've learned exploring the space: its foolish to not be around Apex level pricing as a business venture, this is a low volume business which doesn't really driving the cost to zero; only exception are simple direct import products. If you're not at 4-8x the BOM cost minimum you're not covering overhead; add in cloud services running, and especially if they're required to use the products, this means you need years of costs associated with keeping the lights on minimum. If you're doing mobile apps, you will need to update them at least every few years, etc etc.

I wonder though, what does apex do for their e-tape solution? does their little board at the top convert to a 0-10v or something?

I suspect that is basically the converter module from https://milonetech.com/products/0-5vdc-resistance-to-voltage-module + the cap painted gray with a logo https://milonetech.com/products/etape-assembly-cap

 

[Sral]

About the e-tape, I think you all convinced me not to do it lol. I've done some soldering and what not, but i don't have the time/energy right now to build a circuit and housing. If somebody offered it prebuilt, i'd buy that and go with it. I wonder though, what does apex do for their e-tape solution? does their little board at the top convert to a 0-10v or something? Maybe it's easier to buy the apex ones and work with that?

Sad to hear, but understandable

Apex probably does exactly that, measure and convert to 0-10V using a small microcontroller or analog amplifier circuit. Sadly, measuring 10V would again require you to step those 10V down to something measureable using two more resistors, so you're sadly back to square one.

I do agree, ReefFactory looks very nice. Clean, small, no unnecessary bulk, modular, decentralized, but is it also open enough to third party software through some open interface, like home-assistant stuff ? That's something you have to decide, if its important for you. Also a concern: if you have 4-5 decentralized units: does every one of them need a separate power supply ? Sounds like a lot of cable that way.

Building an ESP32 circuit for the ReefPi-driver to accomodate all your sensors should be fairly easy:
- 3-4 AnalogInputs for your eTapes with one resistor each, maybe several resistors with a jumper to select the length
- 2 GPIO pins for flowmeters or temperature sensors
- pH circuit via I2C
- ORP circuit via I2C
- Adafruit BSS138 level shifter to interface the 5V signals from the flowmeters and I2C network to the 3.3V input pins of the ESP32

Once you have that you only need a Raspberry Pi in a case to be your ReefPi server. Although saying it like that makes it sound like a better alternative to just use a Raspberry Pi directly instead and use an I2C AnalogInput circuit.

Maybe you can find somebody who would build it for you ? Not sure if on this platform, or a repair shop around your place would be a better place to look. If you want to do that I can draw up some circuit diagrams to inform whoever would build it for you.

 

[theatrus]

Also a concern: if you have 4-5 decentralized units: does every one of them need a separate power supply ? Sounds like a lot of cable that way.

You could probably share a supply, but yes, more cabling. A linkable cable (or power in/out ports) can go a long way with stuff like this.

You _could_ make a BluetoothLE sensor which reports to a hub (say, a Raspberry Pi) on a periodic basis and make it run for years on a 2xAA batteries, but thats another maintenance item. And you're not running a display then (though you could use eInk with updates every 5 minutes or so). Definetley out of scope of this thread.

Building an ESP32 circuit for the ReefPi-driver to accomodate all your sensors should be fairly easy:
- 3-4 AnalogInputs for your eTapes with one resistor each, maybe several resistors with a jumper to select the length
- 2 GPIO pins for flowmeters or temperature sensors
- pH circuit via I2C
- ORP circuit via I2C
- Adafruit BSS138 level shifter to interface the 5V signals from the flowmeters and I2C network to the 3.3V input pins of the ESP32

A little carrier board with this stuff if someone wants to embelish some firmware sounds useful. And ESP32 modules are thankfully cheap and not supply constrained. Getting anything built in the last few years is a nightmare that I didn't have time for, but base-boards like this are a popular item

 

[Carbonator]

a wemos d1 hat would be awesome! pre-load it with tasmota and a printed case and batteries, and we're rolling!

 

[Sral]

a wemos d1 hat would be awesome! pre-load it with tasmota and a printed case and batteries, and we're rolling!

Well, a wemos D1 only has 1 AnalogInput, so you would only be able to connect one eTape, as long as you do not multiplex that.

Looks like Tasmota works on certain ESP32 chips as well though. There you would have 6 Analog Inputs and more than enough pins for everything. Tasmota does also support counters (for the flowmeters) and I2C, so it looks doable if you want to do it that way.

That does of course mean that you will probably not have a ReefPi controller, but well, I'm not one to judge ^^

 

[Sral]

Although you have I2C on the Wemos D1 as well if I have understood correctly, so you could also "just" connect a precise and reliable AnalogInput Board like the ADS1015 to the I2C network for good measure. Makes the whole box a bit crowded though with all the I2C devices