Marty's 8' 300g/sump room build. ~750g system

[Mshort03]

Life certainly has been crazy! I've had very little time to mess with the system and add anything new, I just was kn vacation and came back to a bit of an issue.. my alk has raised to 11.4 from usually around 9-9.5. All setting are the same, calcium still at 450 but alk has risen and resulted in burt tips in lots of my sps including all the new ones I got I was showing great growth now this alk spike happens. Not sure what to do about it so currently researching that.

Anybody got any calrx suggestions for me?

I still have a week and a half off from work so I plan to get a bunch of stuff done around here in that time. Finishing the wood work on the built in bar and such is on the list

 

[Mshort03]

Well reactor has been off since about 5pm yesterday. I unplugged the co2 but left the pump running to keep water moving through chambers..

Salinity 1.026
Alk 11.2
Cal 430
Mag 1400

This morning for the first time I have had detectible nutrients.

Nitrates are ~4
Phosphate .02

I started carbon last night around 5 when I turned off reactor just in case there was something in the water. I have no idea what's going on but two frags have started RTN and some other still dont look happy. I'd say 50% is irritated right now including my OP which makes me super upset. Letting all drop naturally to about 8.5-9 and then turn reactor on.

I've been running the same dose (40 ml/min) since starting and it's always stayed about 9-9.5. Over last month or so it had crept up to 10-10.3 which I contributed to removing frags from the 90 (even tho they weren't growing)
So I turned it down to 34 ml/min. But now in a week of being gone its shot up to 11.4 and when I turned dose back up to 40 (running on that whole concentration theory with effluent flow which is bs) it shot to 13. That's when I turned it off. Back down to 11.2 well see what today's light cycle uses up.

Just kind of at a loss right now and feel like I have no choice but to sit and watch what happens.

To me I think it's either something irritated them and they stopped consuming alk, or something caused all to rise even tho no settings changed (seems un likely) so....idk.

The love/hate relationship with this hobby is certainly amplified with a huge system, lol.

 

[crusso1993]

Life certainly has been crazy! I've had very little time to mess with the system and add anything new, I just was kn vacation and came back to a bit of an issue.. my alk has raised to 11.4 from usually around 9-9.5. All setting are the same, calcium still at 450 but alk has risen and resulted in burt tips in lots of my sps including all the new ones I got I was showing great growth now this alk spike happens. Not sure what to do about it so currently researching that.

Anybody got any calrx suggestions for me?

I still have a week and a half off from work so I plan to get a bunch of stuff done around here in that time. Finishing the wood work on the built in bar and such is on the list

Well reactor has been off since about 5pm yesterday. I unplugged the co2 but left the pump running to keep water moving through chambers..

Salinity 1.026
Alk 11.2
Cal 430
Mag 1400

This morning for the first time I have had detectible nutrients.

Nitrates are ~4
Phosphate .02

I started carbon last night around 5 when I turned off reactor just in case there was something in the water. I have no idea what's going on but two frags have started RTN and some other still dont look happy. I'd say 50% is irritated right now including my OP which makes me super upset. Letting all drop naturally to about 8.5-9 and then turn reactor on.

I've been running the same dose (40 ml/min) since starting and it's always stayed about 9-9.5. Over last month or so it had crept up to 10-10.3 which I contributed to removing frags from the 90 (even tho they weren't growing)
So I turned it down to 34 ml/min. But now in a week of being gone its shot up to 11.4 and when I turned dose back up to 40 (running on that whole concentration theory with effluent flow which is crap) it shot to 13. That's when I turned it off. Back down to 11.2 well see what today's light cycle uses up.

Just kind of at a loss right now and feel like I have no choice but to sit and watch what happens.

To me I think it's either something irritated them and they stopped consuming alk, or something caused all to rise even tho no settings changed (seems un likely) so....idk.

The love/hate relationship with this hobby is certainly amplified with a huge system, lol.

Dude... that is so strange about the alk jumping like it did for no readily apparent reason. I wish I could offer some insight but, frankly, I have about as much an idea, or less, than you. Have you run searches on here to see if there might be answers in other threads?

 

[Mshort03]

Dude... that is so strange about the alk jumping like it did for no readily apparent reason. I wish I could offer some insight but, frankly, I have about as much an idea, or less, than you. Have you run searches on here to see if there might be answers in other threads?

I have spent all morning searching and the one thing I found basically was left open ended such as we are now.

 

[crusso1993]

I have spent all morning searching and the one thing I found basically was left open ended such as we are now.

Was it from Randall Holmes-Farley?

 

[Mshort03]

Was it from Randall Holmes-Farley?

I'm honestly not sure. I read so many things this am I cant remember which is which.

Mid day update,
None of sps have the stringy filaments out so seems like they may be less irritated. Alk is still 11-11.2..I'll check this again 10 or so and see if we've dropped any.

Tomorrow I may get started on rack to build those other tanks in fish room and finally hook up the optical sensors I ordered a while back. I have another week left off from work so hope to wrap up a bunch of little things.

 

[Mshort03]

This morning all is down to 10-10.2 prob another 24-36 hours before I turn reactor on. I'll check cal in a bit and make sure that's ok still.
Here's some pics of the damage

Some I lost completely, some just burnt tips. The burnt ones looked better yesterday, hopefully that trend continues today.

 

[crusso1993]

This morning all is down to 10-10.2 prob another 24-36 hours before I turn reactor on. I'll check cal in a bit and make sure that's ok still.
Here's some pics of the damage

Some I lost completely, some just burnt tips. The burnt ones looked better yesterday, hopefully that trend continues today.

Such a bummer.

Hope you and @Dyanna Diaz have a happy 4th!

 

[Mshort03]

Guys I'm at a loss. I'm sick to my stomach over what is happening. I' havent even made an updated post of the progress I've made on build because the bad is consuming me. I got the alk stable, I had turned off reactor got it down to 8.7 and turned on. Found the balance at 24ml/min. I have checked it 4 times a day for the last week and it is 8.7-9 everytime I check it. I've checked it against two other test kits with same results.

Sg. 1.026
Dkh 8.7
Cal 450
Mag 1480
P04 .06
N03 8

Before vacation ~3weeks ago everything was growing daily and looking amazing. Nutrients were undetectable. I come back, stuff looks like crap and alk is 11.5 cal 450 and 2 nitrate and .02 phos. (This is ~2weeks ago) I get the alk stable and params have been stable daily, but I tested nutrients and they are higher. (I had pre portioned food for while I was gone for each day so over feeding wasnt possible) I'm beyond confused..(and ik I'm all over the place writing this)


-Why did alk go UP while I was gone? If anything should have went down as things were growing..
- why did my nutrients all the sudden go up over the last 2 weeks or so when feeding has not changed in 4 months

I'd say close to 60% of sps are showing brown algae on tips. Recession seems to be happening tip down for most part ( of course it's all my expensive stuff.. it's not happening "fast" but certainly notable and theres new pieces doing it tonight) but a couple do show a whiter base along with the dying/browning tips (maybe 4-5pieces are this way)
Some euphyllia are affected, I've lost 2 heads and 2 more on way out (two seperate colonies)

I thought things were getting better few days ago, did water change ran carbon few days when I first got back..things still looked kinda bad but seemed to not progress. then this happens. Only thing notable was feeding phyto yesterday morning and things seemed to get worse after that so I'm stopping (even tho I dont see how that would affect this..even with how much i feed i did the math comparing to phyto i fed my old 90 and by volume I'm feeding less to this system)

Things even look worse tonight than they did this morning. I'm totally lost.

I ordered a full icp test which will be here Tuesday and mailed out wednesday.

I checked par again just cuz and lights are fine.

Flow has not changed.

I litterally have not a single clue as to what could be happening. My old 90 was amazing, now this big new system and I'm losing corals I've spent 3 years collecting. I'm litterally sick to my stomach.

If anyone has any suggestions of something to think about then I'm all ears because this is quite defeating. I barely can even look at the tank right now.

 

[Mshort03]

So one thought i just had and idk if this is something... I use micro algae grow for the phyto. I look at ingredients and it lists ******* COPPER.

My method of cultivating was I got a 16oz phyto at LFS. I put in container, topped off with rodi water and added 1/5 cap of this crap to feed it. Let grow a week then harvest half of each container and dump into display weekly. I'd say about 2 gallons goes in to the display. Now I'm sure it's a quite small amount of copper that's getting in, and I'm pretty sure SOME level of copper exists as a trace element, but could this be a possible cause? It's made for Aquariums but idk. Also it said on bottle for saltwater to use 1.015 water for it to grow in to not get "contaminated" I never did this as I coppied exactly what a friend did when he was growing it. ...come to think of it he couldn't grow corals either hmm. (When I fed my 90 I always bought it so I didnt have this issue but with this size system buying it is too expensive so I went to this method)

Wut. The. Truck. Guys.

I gues the icp test will let me know for sure on this.. but I did think about it and my frag system does not show these signs and I feed it this phyto too so now idk. I also feed frag system MORE by volume than what I fed my 90..(Frag system doing great...also on esv 2 part which I always had great luck with:/ )
I turned carbon back on and might do a water change tonight too..

 

[crusso1993]

Guys I'm at a loss. I'm sick to my stomach over what is happening. I' havent even made an updated post of the progress I've made on build because the bad is consuming me. I got the alk stable, I had turned off reactor got it down to 8.7 and turned on. Found the balance at 24ml/min. I have checked it 4 times a day for the last week and it is 8.7-9 everytime I check it. I've checked it against two other test kits with same results.

Sg. 1.026
Dkh 8.7
Cal 450
Mag 1480
P04 .06
N03 8

Before vacation ~3weeks ago everything was growing daily and looking amazing. Nutrients were undetectable. I come back, stuff looks like crap and alk is 11.5 cal 450 and 2 nitrate and .02 phos. (This is ~2weeks ago) I get the alk stable and params have been stable daily, but I tested nutrients and they are higher. (I had pre portioned food for while I was gone for each day so over feeding wasnt possible) I'm beyond confused..(and ik I'm all over the place writing this)


-Why did alk go UP while I was gone? If anything should have went down as things were growing..
- why did my nutrients all the sudden go up over the last 2 weeks or so when feeding has not changed in 4 months

I'd say close to 60% of sps are showing brown algae on tips. Recession seems to be happening tip down for most part ( of course it's all my expensive stuff.. it's not happening "fast" but certainly notable and theres new pieces doing it tonight) but a couple do show a whiter base along with the dying/browning tips (maybe 4-5pieces are this way)
Some euphyllia are affected, I've lost 2 heads and 2 more on way out (two seperate colonies)

I thought things were getting better few days ago, did water change ran carbon few days when I first got back..things still looked kinda bad but seemed to not progress. then this happens. Only thing notable was feeding phyto yesterday morning and things seemed to get worse after that so I'm stopping (even tho I dont see how that would affect this..even with how much i feed i did the math comparing to phyto i fed my old 90 and by volume I'm feeding less to this system)

Things even look worse tonight than they did this morning. I'm totally lost.

I ordered a full icp test which will be here Tuesday and mailed out wednesday.

I checked par again just cuz and lights are fine.

Flow has not changed.

I litterally have not a single clue as to what could be happening. My old 90 was amazing, now this big new system and I'm losing corals I've spent 3 years collecting. I'm litterally sick to my stomach.

If anyone has any suggestions of something to think about then I'm all ears because this is quite defeating. I barely can even look at the tank right now.

So one thought i just had and idk if this is something... I use micro algae grow for the phyto. I look at ingredients and it lists ******* COPPER.

My method of cultivating was I got a 16oz phyto at LFS. I put in container, topped off with rodi water and added 1/5 cap of this crap to feed it. Let grow a week then harvest half of each container and dump into display weekly. I'd say about 2 gallons goes in to the display. Now I'm sure it's a quite small amount of copper that's getting in, and I'm pretty sure SOME level of copper exists as a trace element, but could this be a possible cause? It's made for Aquariums but idk. Also it said on bottle for saltwater to use 1.015 water for it to grow in to not get "contaminated" I never did this as I coppied exactly what a friend did when he was growing it. ...come to think of it he couldn't grow corals either hmm. (When I fed my 90 I always bought it so I didnt have this issue but with this size system buying it is too expensive so I went to this method)

Wut. The. Truck. Guys.

I gues the icp test will let me know for sure on this.. but I did think about it and my frag system does not show these signs and I feed it this phyto too so now idk. I also feed frag system MORE by volume than what I fed my 90..(Frag system doing great...also on esv 2 part which I always had great luck with:/ )
I turned carbon back on and might do a water change tonight too..

Not sure how I missed these updates bit sorry I did.

Sorry you're struggling with your new system(s), bro. Like you, I do find your issues very strange. At first, I thought, "Copper in the Micro Algae Grow has messed everything up!" But then you say your frag tank is thriving. I still think that Micro Algae Grow should be throw right in the trash though.

I hope the ICP results show something that will be an eye-opener. Maybe one of your tests is not reading correctly. I don't know and feel horrible about not being able to say offer any help. If ICP comes back good then maybe ask the Reefsquad for input. What do you think?

 

[Mshort03]

Not sure how I missed these updates bit sorry I did.

Sorry you're struggling with your new system(s), bro. Like you, I do find your issues very strange. At first, I thought, "Copper in the Micro Algae Grow has messed everything up!" But then you say your frag tank is thriving. I still think that Micro Algae Grow should be throw right in the trash though.

I hope the ICP results show something that will be an eye-opener. Maybe one of your tests is not reading correctly. I don't know and feel horrible about not being able to say offer any help. If ICP comes back good then maybe ask the Reefsquad for input. What do you think?

Oh it's in the trash alright..along with 6 gallons of phyto. I understand algaes use some heavy metals to grow but it just seems odd to me Maybe the big manufacturers test for the metals and that's hoe they determine when its "done" cultivating..but with that what is the toxcicty level UK? 1/5 capful of this stuff into 3 gallons which a week later is cut in half to feed tank. So breaking it totally down that's like 1/10 a cap full going into 600g and that would be if it were full concentration which it isnt because the phyto would have consumed some so idk.

The test will be here today and I'll mail it out in the am. I looked at it yesterday and it's worse. I cannot explain it I've consulted other trusted bmhobbyists around me and everyone is scratching their heads.

This is truly heartbreaking as I just got this, was ungodly excited, spend 2 months slaving over this to build it and try to think of everything, spend 25k and then to just have this happen 4 months in. Its overwhelmingly defeating and makes me feel immense guilt for spending this much money and tearing the house up like I have to make this happen..I honestly feel kinda stupid:/ I just dont know.

One other thing I noticed is some red planaria in my display fuge. Now i understand the toxic thing blahs blahs but i havent treated for them so idk if they would be affecting anything. Fish are all fine. Softies are fine, 60% of euphyllia is fine...its mostly sps affected but have lost 4 5 heads of hammers.

That brings up another painful topic, how the heck did they get in there? I'm always careful to dip and inspect but I guess they got past some how.. but that leaves me with the feeling of a ticking time bomb. I suck them out and there is a melanarus wrasse in there but I wonder if this will be enough. I'd hate to use FWE as we've all heard the horror stories but what do I do. If the icp test comes back clean then I think I'm gunna blame the planaria..if so idk what to even do. Gunna be a roll of the dice either way I guess. I feel no matter what I do this tank may be on it's way to a crash and I've never felt so helpless in my life.

My 90g was amazing and I coppied it just on a large scale with this build. Was careful with everything and I'm still left here. 3 years of collecting and growing pieces, thousands and thousands of dollars spent...and I'm watching it vanish on me.

The front glass isnt even clean because I cant bear to even go in that room. I'm disgusted with not only the situation but the guilt I feel too. I'm beginning to wish I had a time machine.... .:/

 

[crusso1993]

Oh it's in the trash alright..along with 6 gallons of phyto. I understand algaes use some heavy metals to grow but it just seems odd to me Maybe the big manufacturers test for the metals and that's hoe they determine when its "done" cultivating..but with that what is the toxcicty level UK? 1/5 capful of this stuff into 3 gallons which a week later is cut in half to feed tank. So breaking it totally down that's like 1/10 a cap full going into 600g and that would be if it were full concentration which it isnt because the phyto would have consumed some so idk.

The test will be here today and I'll mail it out in the am. I looked at it yesterday and it's worse. I cannot explain it I've consulted other trusted bmhobbyists around me and everyone is scratching their heads.

This is truly heartbreaking as I just got this, was ungodly excited, spend 2 months slaving over this to build it and try to think of everything, spend 25k and then to just have this happen 4 months in. Its overwhelmingly defeating and makes me feel immense guilt for spending this much money and tearing the house up like I have to make this happen..I honestly feel kinda stupid:/ I just dont know.

One other thing I noticed is some red planaria in my display fuge. Now i understand the toxic thing blahs blahs but i havent treated for them so idk if they would be affecting anything. Fish are all fine. Softies are fine, 60% of euphyllia is fine...its mostly sps affected but have lost 4 5 heads of hammers.

That brings up another painful topic, how the heck did they get in there? I'm always careful to dip and inspect but I guess they got past some how.. but that leaves me with the feeling of a ticking time bomb. I suck them out and there is a melanarus wrasse in there but I wonder if this will be enough. I'd hate to use FWE as we've all heard the horror stories but what do I do. If the icp test comes back clean then I think I'm gunna blame the planaria..if so idk what to even do. Gunna be a roll of the dice either way I guess. I feel no matter what I do this tank may be on it's way to a crash and I've never felt so helpless in my life.

My 90g was amazing and I coppied it just on a large scale with this build. Was careful with everything and I'm still left here. 3 years of collecting and growing pieces, thousands and thousands of dollars spent...and I'm watching it vanish on me.

The front glass isnt even clean because I cant bear to even go in that room. I'm disgusted with not only the situation but the guilt I feel too. I'm beginning to wish I had a time machine.... .:/

I simply cannot "like" your above post.

I recommend not beating yourself up. It has no positive affect on anything. You followed all the protocols and every way to set up the system properly. So, really, cut yourself a little slack.

I'm going to summon the #reefsquad and hopefully, maybe, someone will have some answers, input or questions covering a missed variable.
Also tagging some very knowledgable members here. Hopefully, you'll get some repsonses.
@dantimdad
@NY_Caveman
@Katrina71
@Scurvy
@Fin
@tdlawdo
@Hemmdog
@Jomama
@Sallstrom
@Lasse
@Rick.45cal

 

[dantimdad]

Let me catch up on this and I will see if I can help out.

 

[EmdeReef]

I’m sorry for your problems.

FWIW I don’t think the trace element additive you used would contain enough copper (if properly formulated) to cause any issues. Many trace element additives contain copper which in small quantities is ok. I dose this daily - https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-coral-k-trace-2-tropic-marin.html

The RTN/STN you observed was very likely caused by the alkalinity spike. What caused the spike is hard to tell, too low nutrients could have inhibited growth and alk uptake.

 

[dantimdad]

OK. Caught up.

I noticed you didn't list your Ph. Also, bringing down alk quickly can cause continued problems but I don't think this is where the problem is.

The alk could have shot up while gone because the corals started having issues and stopped consuming alk and cal. Not the other way around.

I think the high alk is a symptom not a cause.

Make sense?

Now, we need to determine the root of the problem.

Test pH, make sure temp is ok and, if you can, test for stray voltage in the water.

 

[tdlawdo]

Getting ready to board a plane will read and get back if I can help. I will say I am doing a similar but smaller 230 build and maybe maturity of the tank wasn’t ready for the sps. However I got some chaeto from somewhere other than my normal clean chaeto distributor and it came with some nasties..polluted the fuge but never made it to the DT...I drained the fuge, sterilized and started that part over with clean cultured chaeto and ogo and itnis much better now. I add Iron at the suggestions of others on the list above.

 

[Mshort03]

First of all @crusso1993 thank you, I tend to be hard on myself and with something like this I sort of lose control of my emotions, thanks for grounding me some. Also thank you for pulling in all these great minds to try and help me, I was getting slightly discouraged at the lack of interaction on my thread but this certainly has boosted it.

I'm at work so cant tag all of you individually who replied but to comment on a few things..

-the supplement I doubt would have enough copper in it to be problematic since it's made for the specific use I used it for. I just thought it was notable.
-the planaria seems to only be in the display fuge and I see a couple in the cryptic tank (which just got rock added so I'm worried about that)
Is it worth isolating the display fuge and treating it? If so wouldn't this kinda be a waste of time as if they are anywhere else they will just repopulate again? I dont see any anywhere else besides the display fuge and the few in cryptic tank...never seen in display.

-the system is 4 months old but all rock and all is 1 year cycled and theres 120lbs of 5 year old rock.. I dont think this is cause because when I moved everything to this house and had make shift setups to hold me over I didnt have problems..certainly that would be when they would have happened, no?
- i did recently add a co2 scrubber and noticed over all about a .1 difference in ph. Not the "skyrocketing" affect like people describe..I contribute this to an undersized skimmer given system volume thus inadequate gas exchange which is why I see only small differences.
- I agree that the alk spike was a reaction, but what caused coral to be mad in first place UK?
- I lowered the alk naturally by unplugging resctor..I guess relatively speaking in that was quick (4days) but I test it minimum twice a day now and it is 8.7-9 every time.
- I tested multiple test kits to be sure it wasnt a bad batch of titrant, all gave me same result.



Below are tables from my temp and ph. The more drastic spikes at the end of my ph graph are due to friends being in town and I had a party so there was a lot more people in the house than normal.

 

[Mshort03]

Also to note is my nutrients that appeared seemingly out of no where. I will test them again tonight and see where they are at now. Last test was almost a week ago

 

[dantimdad]

OK. That's good information. I don't see anything there that is an issue.

I agree the supplement isn't the cause either.

The only thing I can think of is possibly some outside contaminant like pesticide, air freshener or cleaner fumes. And that's just a possible not a definite.

Also, when the ICP comes back post it.

Look for rusted hose clamps if you have any. They can cause very high nickel and zinc levels and decimate a tank.