MARINE FISH AND INVERTEBRATES TO AVOID

[Dr. Reef]

Oh, interesting. Is it due to different collection methods or does that locality just produce tougher fish? They do seem to have a large range so maybe different populations are built different.

Does your butterflies come from the Philippines by any chance? ;]

I think the region makes a lot of difference and also method of collection. In my experience 85% of Phillippines copperbands are healthy and adapt to frozen and pellets right away. My current stock is from Phillipines in fact if i can help it I will ONLY buy from this wholesaler that carries them. Before I found them I had 80% die due to starvation.

 

[melhe]

My antenna lion got me in 5 spots on my hand. 2 were in my index finger. I didn't have full range of motion for months afterwards.

My arm was a bit tingly also.


My first blue spot lasted for 2 and a half years. I never did anything different. He had a burrow right in front. My wife and I loved him. After he disappeared I got 4 more Blue spots. None lasted over a few weeks. I even lowered the temp to 78°.

No more of them. It breaks my heart.

My blue spot last one month only

Stethojulis spp. Orange shoulder Wrasse
Marine fishes that almost never survive past the year mark in closed system aquariums

my both orange shoulder wrasse comes in DOA

 

[Alpha_and_Gec]

I think the region makes a lot of difference and also method of collection. In my experience 85% of Phillippines copperbands are healthy and adapt to frozen and pellets right away. My current stock is from Phillipines in fact if i can help it I will ONLY buy from this wholesaler that carries them. Before I found them I had 80% die due to starvation.

Interesting... Where else are they produced again? Australia and Indonesia? it might be a production rate thing, I certainly do see a lot more fish coming in through the Philippines from my lfs than elsewhere in the tropics of Asia - Australia.

 

[Marcel_Paz]

Avoid: Six line wrasse and GSP

Why?

 

[Debramb]

I have a very good source from Africa BUT internal uronema DOES NOT show up till they are subjected to shipping stresses or acclimation to new tank stress etc. I have sold many and i would say 5% of them do show uronema.

@Jay Hemdal Blonde Naso mostly come from Indo and Sri Lanka (south Asia) areas and unfortunately divers use cyanide to catch these fish. Fish looks healthy and clean onthe outside but slowly dying inside.

 

[Debramb]

Oh Dr Reef, I’m so glad you’re doing well, I spoke w/you 3 yrs ago about losing 3 blonde Naso’s not making it out of my quarantine. We’ve added NO fish as I knew I wanted to buy from you. I already have my wish list to order when our 125 g
Is cycling. Thanks again for your care!
Debra from Fort Worth, Texas

 

[Borat]

That is a very similar species to the "yellow coris" that I listed. But, I don't have enough data to include that species, have you seen multiple issues with them?

Jay

Hi Jay, no - I only had it once, but it grew into a fairly large fish and would dominate any other fish in the tank including tangs. My tank turned into a pieceful community (it wasn't when the wrasse was there) since this wrasse was caught and removed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a very good source from Africa BUT internal uronema DOES NOT show up till they are subjected to shipping stresses or acclimation to new tank stress etc. I have sold many and i would say 5% of them do show uronema.

@Jay Hemdal Blonde Naso mostly come from Indo and Sri Lanka (south Asia) areas and unfortunately divers use cyanide to catch these fish. Fish looks healthy and clean onthe outside but slowly dying inside.

Yes - I've been advocating for suppliers to source green chromis from E. Africa, as those seem sturdier.

I'm still struggling with the blonde naso issue. Those are most often caught in barrier nets, only small ones will hole up and be caught with cyanide. Sri Lanka used cyanide in the 1960's, but then it stopped. Maybe they began again? Indonesia didn't use cyanide until around 1981, then they became one of the worst users.

The problem with these naso seems to be a new thing, since Hawaii closed down and regular naso became scarce. My hypothesis is that when that happened, the market demand for blondes increased. However, in Indonesia, many local reefs are depleted, so they rely on "rovers". These are small boats that go out for a week or so at a time, collecting fish. Those fish are held in plastic bags and not fed. I think the nasos are just ill suited for this long supply chain. Then, as you are aware, they just don't give larger, active fish enough bag space. They just don't understand that bag size needs to be calculated on fish mass, not length and a 4" fish weighs perhaps 20 times that of a one inch fish.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I didn’t see a moorish idol in the list of fish that don’t do well in captivity.

I had them on the list but removed them before I posted. They aren't all that delicate if you meet their needs - it's just that isn't all that easy, mostly it has to do with tank size.

A person who casually buys one for their 100 gallon reef tank is likely to run into issues.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Surprised to see copperbands not being on this list.. don't many of them die off due to shipping stress or fail to eat prepared food? Been avoiding them specifically because of that.

Copperbands are delicate, but not impossible. It is mostly due to sourcing. I get them from Australia and they do great. Buying a small thin one from Indonesia at your local big box pet store is probably not going to end well.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Surprised to see yellow coris on the list.

Just due to a high percentage of them developing Uronema. Otherwise, they are quite hardy.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Interesting info about the cardinals and iridovirus, as I had just finished quarantining a cardinal which, despite acting perfectly fine in quarantine, died within hours of being acclimated to the main display. In spite of eating, it looked sickly thin before its death, but was treated for parasites, ich/velvet, and flukes. Is it possible it had this virus and the stress of transfer killed it?

Maybe, but that is the trouble with viral diseases - since we have no way to diagnose them, we just can't tell.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Great article! And you even acknowledged my "coris" pet peeve

See one minor thing though you list Anampses sp as "red" tamarin wrasse there is only one red tamarin wrasse, A chrysocephalus and as I understand it is one of the hardier ones. Tamarin wrasse generally refers to the whole genus and while they all generally do badly the ones that do the worst seem to be the blue and yellow complex ones of A lennardi and A femininus.
And if we're talking Anampses species then I'd add Pseudojuloides (pencil wrasse) and Macropharyngodon (leopard wrasse) who struggle with the same issue of shipping stress, injuries, and struggling to adjust to the day/night cycle in a new environment.

Yes, I've heard pencil wrasses are an issue - to the point where I never order them. That however, leaves me with no data (grin). Leopard wrasses are tough, I no longer acquire them, but other people have done o.k. with them, so I took them off the list before I posted it.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How about male watanabei angel? The near translucent blue on the head and through the body makes it difficult to tell if the subtle pinkness is the inside or bacterial infection. Idk if it’s just me, but this is an angel with very low rate of success making out of QT.

They are delicate, but I've had them do o.k. long term when I got them from a good source.

There are tons of fish that are delicate, I tried to focus on those that will not live, despite the circumstances.

Jay

 

[rhitee93]

Well bummer. I literally just received 4 bangaii cardinals as my second addition of fish to my tank...

 

[NanaPam96]

Avoid: Six line wrasse and GSP

Why 6 line wrasse? We loved having one in our last tank and was planning on one for our new tank

 

[SaltyT]

It's a bummer to see fairy and flasher wrasses on the list. Uncovering the causation of UNWD would be great; hopefully we'll have that answer someday.

p.s. flasher wrasses are Paracheilinus

 

[Sharkbait19]

Why 6 line wrasse? We loved having one in our last tank and was planning on one for our new tank

If I had to guess it has more to do with their nasty reputation than any disease issue. Gsp obviously for it’s incredibly fast growth.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well bummer. I literally just received 4 bangaii cardinals as my second addition of fish to my tank...

If they were tank raised, you probably will not have that virus issue.

Jay

 

[rhitee93]

If they were tank raised, you probably will not have that virus issue.

Jay

Given how little I paid for them I believe them to be wild caught. These guys only spent about 14 hours in shipping so I went ahead and drip acclimated them. A couple of them ate while they were waiting in the bucket which I took as a good sign. They look healthy now, but I know that doesn't mean much.

They'll chill in this observation tank for a couple of days before going into the QT protocol. Anything else I can do to improve their odds?