Mandarin Dragonet - Velvet, bacterial, fungal? Video

[IrezumiHurts]

ORA Mandarin, 1/2 inch or so. Bought a pair about 2 months ago, treated both in copper for 14 days at 2.0ppm, with hanna checker.

One has a strong appetite, looking healthy and fat. Feeding daily hatched artemia, frozen cyclopods, and PE Calanus. The other (now sick) one is quite thin. I see it nipping, but not gaining weight.

Moved them both to my sump, 90gal heavily stocked FOWLR tank, 1.021sg, 30ppm nitrites, 1 year old tank, to augment diet with live pods. They've been there about 3 weeks. All fish have been through 2.5ppm 30 day copper, except these mandarins, due to sensitivity.

Last week i went to clean my felt filter sock. Plop! Out comes the thin mandarin. I was rubbing the sock under warm tap water to clean it. I dont think i crushed it nor was it in tap long but it was certainly stressful. I may have damaged the slime coat, likely. Back in the tank, acting fine 5 minutes later.

2 days ago i noticed a haze on the thin one, but assumed it was the usual "sleeping discoloration" they seem to get. But then its not swimming right either, and lethargic. Thought it was dead yesterday, but a turkey baster probe brought it to action.

Today now unmistakably white around head. Having trouble swimming correctly, tail is lifting as if it wants to float away.

Fearing the worst, 3 minutes FW dip, now in Ruby Reef Rally 1 gallon QT, in case its fungal or bacterial.

It looks like velvet but i feel like it would be dead already if it was velvet. Fins look torn up, not sure if from the other mandarin but they will be seperated from now on. Never observed fighting. Could be from the filter sock ordeal but doubtful.

Took a video (link below) after the FW dip. Breathing rate at start if video, I prompted it to move at 20 second mark, 46 seconds you can see the fins are not great looking, 1:40 minutes mark i changed the lighting, you can better see the skin affliction and swimming pattern. Sorry its shaky, i was trying to keep focus and lighting.

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal #fishmedic

 

[homer1475]

Looks completely emaciated to me. Near death could be why it's discolored and not moving much.

 

[Tanxalot]

Defer to Hemdal re meds. For very thin mandarins like this I have had some good results soaking thawed frozen mysis or spirulina brine or live brine shrimp in Selcon or Brightwell AminOmega. As this Mandy is in trouble, boosting nutrition may not cure but could help strengthen for the fight.

 

[IrezumiHurts]

Looks completely emaciated to me. Near death could be why it's discolored and not moving much.

I considered that also, yes it is quite emaciated as you say. It eats a little bit but just wont gain weight. Gonna try whiteworm culture, if it survives long enough.

Thanks for elevating the post.

I don't mean to sound cruel but at this point I'm less worried about this fish and more worried about the possibility of having velvet in my DT. The amount of diligent work that has gone into ensuring everything was QTed properly cannot be understated. I cannot imagine the thought of putting their livers through that again.

 

[IrezumiHurts]

Defer to Hemdal re meds. For very thin mandarins like this I have had some good results soaking thawed frozen mysis or spirulina brine or live brine shrimp in Selcon or Brightwell AminOmega. As this Mandy is in trouble, boosting nutrition may not cure but could help strengthen for the fight.

I'll try soaking the live artemia in selcon, never considered trying that. It hasn't really been interested in frozen mysis or frozen brine so far, nor masstick or TDO micro pellets.

 

[homer1475]

Although it's possible, it's highly unlikely. Their thick slime coat protects them from most diseases. It is the one fish back when I used to QT with meds, I never put through meds.

If it was truly velvet, and it's been 2 days looking this way in your tank with other fish, your other fish would be showing signs of it by now.

 

[IrezumiHurts]

Although it's possible, it's highly unlikely. Their thick slime coat protects them from most diseases. It is the one fish back when I used to QT with meds, I never put through meds.

If it was truly velvet, and it's been 2 days looking this way in your tank with other fish, your other fish would be showing signs of it by now.

I'm hoping everything you said above ends up true, that's basically what I've been clinging to.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ORA Mandarin, 1/2 inch or so. Bought a pair about 2 months ago, treated both in copper for 14 days at 2.0ppm, with hanna checker.

One has a strong appetite, looking healthy and fat. Feeding daily hatched artemia, frozen cyclopods, and PE Calanus. The other (now sick) one is quite thin. I see it nipping, but not gaining weight.

Moved them both to my sump, 90gal heavily stocked FOWLR tank, 1.021sg, 30ppm nitrites, 1 year old tank, to augment diet with live pods. They've been there about 3 weeks. All fish have been through 2.5ppm 30 day copper, except these mandarins, due to sensitivity.

Last week i went to clean my felt filter sock. Plop! Out comes the thin mandarin. I was rubbing the sock under warm tap water to clean it. I dont think i crushed it nor was it in tap long but it was certainly stressful. I may have damaged the slime coat, likely. Back in the tank, acting fine 5 minutes later.

2 days ago i noticed a haze on the thin one, but assumed it was the usual "sleeping discoloration" they seem to get. But then its not swimming right either, and lethargic. Thought it was dead yesterday, but a turkey baster probe brought it to action.

Today now unmistakably white around head. Having trouble swimming correctly, tail is lifting as if it wants to float away.

Fearing the worst, 3 minutes FW dip, now in Ruby Reef Rally 1 gallon QT, in case its fungal or bacterial.

It looks like velvet but i feel like it would be dead already if it was velvet. Fins look torn up, not sure if from the other mandarin but they will be seperated from now on. Never observed fighting. Could be from the filter sock ordeal but doubtful.

Took a video (link below) after the FW dip. Breathing rate at start if video, I prompted it to move at 20 second mark, 46 seconds you can see the fins are not great looking, 1:40 minutes mark i changed the lighting, you can better see the skin affliction and swimming pattern. Sorry its shaky, i was trying to keep focus and lighting.

I don't think that is velvet - that would show as much more rapid breathing, and the skin discoloration doesn't match up. In addition, velvet is so contagious that most/all fish would be showing symptoms.

External fungal diseases are almost never seen in marine fish.

The fins certainly have severe damage, but I can't say what the cause might have been.

IMO - that leaves a bacterial disease and emaciation. Ruby Reef (or better yet, a true antibiotic dip) and trying to get it to eat are the only suggestions I would have.

To be honest, I don't think you will be able to save this fish. You should watch the other fish closely, especially the other mandarin, for similar symptoms.

Jay

 

[IrezumiHurts]

I don't think that is velvet - that would show as much more rapid breathing, and the skin discoloration doesn't match up. In addition, velvet is so contagious that most/all fish would be showing symptoms.

External fungal diseases are almost never seen in marine fish.

The fins certainly have severe damage, but I can't say what the cause might have been.

IMO - that leaves a bacterial disease and emaciation. Ruby Reef (or better yet, a true antibiotic dip) and trying to get it to eat are the only suggestions I would have.

To be honest, I don't think you will be able to save this fish. You should watch the other fish closely, especially the other mandarin, for similar symptoms.

Jay

 

[IrezumiHurts]

I don't think that is velvet - that would show as much more rapid breathing, and the skin discoloration doesn't match up. In addition, velvet is so contagious that most/all fish would be showing symptoms.

External fungal diseases are almost never seen in marine fish.

The fins certainly have severe damage, but I can't say what the cause might have been.

IMO - that leaves a bacterial disease and emaciation. Ruby Reef (or better yet, a true antibiotic dip) and trying to get it to eat are the only suggestions I would have.

To be honest, I don't think you will be able to save this fish. You should watch the other fish closely, especially the other mandarin, for similar symptoms.

Jay

Thank you for the input Jay. The other Mandarin is completely fine but i am watching the tank very carefully. I did treat with Ruby Reef but unfortunately acriflavine was the only thing i had on hand.

I will report back with anything of significance, but I'm afraid it lacks the strength to pull through. I am glad the community is at least leaning away from velvet, the rest of my tank is my main concern at this point.