Lyretail Anthias male: bulgy eye & air bubble at the eye

[Madmickel]

Dear all

New user here, we have a problem with our Lyretail Anthias male since now about for one week and we are looking for help:
- We have this fish now for several years and had so far newer such an issue.
- Latest new introduced fish were end of Dec.23, without any issue with them.
- The tank is constantly filtered with UV-C since the beginning
- The fish is behaving normally, eating as usuall (flakes, Artimia incl. Garlic and Cyclos) and shows no other abnormality
- All other fish in the tank are healthy
- Every other day there seems to be a air bubble at the infected eye. Typically the disappear within one day.
- No medication so far.

Any help would be much appreciated!
Sorry for the pic quality, the fish tank glas could be cleaner... The pic were shot rather spontaneously.

We are a little unsure what to do now. It does not seem to get worse. As I guess with most fully stocked fish & coral tanks, it would be a major challenge to catch him.

Thank you,
BR
Madmickel

 

[vetteguy53081]

Dear all

New user here, we have a problem with our Lyretail Anthias male since now about for one week and we are looking for help:
- We have this fish now for several years and had so far newer such an issue.
- Latest new introduced fish were end of Dec.23, without any issue with them.
- The tank is constantly filtered with UV-C since the beginning
- The fish is behaving normally, eating as usuall (flakes, Artimia incl. Garlic and Cyclos) and shows no other abnormality
- All other fish in the tank are healthy
- Every other day there seems to be a air bubble at the infected eye. Typically the disappear within one day.
- No medication so far.

Any help would be much appreciated!
Sorry for the pic quality, the fish tank glas could be cleaner... The pic were shot rather spontaneously.

We are a little unsure what to do now. It does not seem to get worse. As I guess with most fully stocked fish & coral tanks, it would be a major challenge to catch him.

Thank you,
BR
Madmickel

As rare as they get it- this fish seems to have ich. They don’t do well with copper but do with chloroquine phosphate
Other would be general cure for at least 21 days
Do other occupants show signs?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Dear all

New user here, we have a problem with our Lyretail Anthias male since now about for one week and we are looking for help:
- We have this fish now for several years and had so far newer such an issue.
- Latest new introduced fish were end of Dec.23, without any issue with them.
- The tank is constantly filtered with UV-C since the beginning
- The fish is behaving normally, eating as usuall (flakes, Artimia incl. Garlic and Cyclos) and shows no other abnormality
- All other fish in the tank are healthy
- Every other day there seems to be a air bubble at the infected eye. Typically the disappear within one day.
- No medication so far.

Any help would be much appreciated!
Sorry for the pic quality, the fish tank glas could be cleaner... The pic were shot rather spontaneously.

We are a little unsure what to do now. It does not seem to get worse. As I guess with most fully stocked fish & coral tanks, it would be a major challenge to catch him.

Thank you,
BR
Madmickel

Are the white spots on the glass or on the fish?

When just one eye is inflamed and with a bubble, it is most often due to trauma.

 

[MnFish1]

Are the white spots on the glass or on the fish?

When just one eye is inflamed and with a bubble, it is most often due to trauma.

LOL - I was going to say the same thing. I can't see anything parasitic on the fish. The fish does look thin and ill. if indeed both eyes are involved - I would consider perhaps a different path.

 

[MnFish1]

PS - it could still be ich - just nice to see away from the glass - video if possible under a white light would help alot!!.

 

[Madmickel]

Hi

No, it's not ICH, it's the coraline algae on the class. Sorry for the picture quality, it was shot spontaneus. I will clean the glass on the weekend and try for a better picture.

Yes, it is just one eye, the other one is normal.

Thank you,
Mad

 

[VintageReefer]

Hi

No, it's not ICH, it's the coraline algae on the class. Sorry for the picture quality, it was shot spontaneus. I will clean the glass on the weekend and try for a better picture.

Yes, it is just one eye, the other one is normal.

Thank you,
Mad

You should not wait until the weekend…please clean the glass and get a clearer picture. Everyday you wait this potentially gets worse and the ability to cure gets slimmer.

 

[Madmickel]

Hi everyone
Attached are the newest pictures, I hope they are more clear now. Still there are some particles in the water column from the cleaning, but the overall picture quality is way better.
The status of the fish is the same as when I wrote my first posting here.
In Pic 3 you can see the other eye is perfectly normal. Also, as someone wrote it, the fish as a whole is in my opinion neither thin or ill.

Any help & comments would be much appreciated,
Mad

 

[IrezumiHurts]

Erythromycin and Epsom salt have worked well for me in the past for eye swelling issues.

He would need to be moved to his own hospital tank for treatment and treated for at least a week. Erythromycin is mostly reef safe and is not supposed to affect your biofilter but I do typically get an ammonia spike so it's just easier to do a 10g QT especially considering the stuff isn't cheap for treating an entire DT.

It can take a while (weeks) for the swelling to go down but sometimes you get lucky and it goes down in a few days. Be careful handling him, it's more prone to eye injury.
Let me know if you are interested further and I give you dosages that have worked for me

 

[VintageReefer]

Capture him with a fish trap or leading him into a container. Netting can cause further damage

 

[MnFish1]

Erythromycin and Epsom salt have worked well for me in the past for eye swelling issues.

He would need to be moved to his own hospital tank for treatment and treated for at least a week. Erythromycin is mostly reef safe and is not supposed to affect your biofilter but I do typically get an ammonia spike so it's just easier to do a 10g QT especially considering the stuff isn't cheap for treating an entire DT.

It can take a while (weeks) for the swelling to go down but sometimes you get lucky and it goes down in a few days. Be careful handling him, it's more prone to eye injury.
Let me know if you are interested further and I give you dosages that have worked for me

Epsom salts do not have an effect in a salt-water tank - however - I agree that he should have an antibiotic. My guess is that this started with an injury - and maybe even a penetration to the globe - which might be why it seems the bubble comes and goes (i.e. pressure builds up and is then released). @Madmickel You would want to use a broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn or Maracyn II in a quarantine tank. Maracyn (erythromycin) - covers more gram positive organisms. Maracyn II (Minocycline) is more broad spectrum. Over time, Maracyn has become more chosen for eye issues - though I'm not sure why. In saltwater, gram negative infections are more common.

 

[piranhaman00]

If it’s one eye it’s damage. Feed healthy with good water and it will heal on its own

 

[IrezumiHurts]

Epsom salts do not have an effect in a salt-water tank - however - I agree that he should have an antibiotic. My guess is that this started with an injury - and maybe even a penetration to the globe - which might be why it seems the bubble comes and goes (i.e. pressure builds up and is then released). @Madmickel You would want to use a broad spectrum antibiotic like Maracyn or Maracyn II in a quarantine tank. Maracyn (erythromycin) - covers more gram positive organisms. Maracyn II (Minocycline) is more broad spectrum. Over time, Maracyn has become more chosen for eye issues - though I'm not sure why. In saltwater, gram negative infections are more common.

It's quite bold to state that so factually. I understand the efficacy of Epsom salt is widely debated, if not outright disputed by many. However I've had good success with it anecdotally, in fact I've had a few cases of treating with erythromycin yielding no results until Epsom salt was used, at which swelling reduced markedly within 24 hours. I've encountered this multiple times, enough to where i no longer consider it strictly a coincidence, even if i don't entirely understand the mechanisms at play. Could it still be coincidence or due to the latency period which antibiotics take to register, and it's simply a placebo? Yes I fully acknowledge that could be a logical fallacy. On the other hand there could also be a synergistic effect which isn't totally understood. However I will continue to use, and advocate its use in conjuction with erythromycin, on the basis that at best many hobbyist have reported success with it, and at worst it's virtually inert in the context of QT treatment, cheap and readily available. Maybe it's a myth, but at least it's a harmless one.

 

[MnFish1]

It's quite bold to state that so factually. I understand the efficacy of Epsom salt is widely debated, if not outright disputed by many. However I've had good success with it anecdotally, in fact I've had a few cases of treating with erythromycin yielding no results until Epsom salt was used, at which swelling reduced markedly within 24 hours. I've encountered this multiple times, enough to where i no longer consider it strictly a coincidence, even if i don't entirely understand the mechanisms at play. Could it still be coincidence or due to the latency period which antibiotics take to register, and it's simply a placebo? Yes I fully acknowledge that could be a logical fallacy. On the other hand there could also be a synergistic effect which isn't totally understood. However I will continue to use, and advocate its use in conjuction with erythromycin, on the basis that at best many hobbyist have reported success with it, and at worst it's virtually inert in the context of QT treatment, cheap and readily available. Maybe it's a myth, but at least it's a harmless one.

You are welcome to try whatever you want to - I have no problem. However, Its not bold - since some of the top medical people on this forum would suggest that it is not effective. The bottom line though is true - it's not likely to do any harm. I would be interesting to see what your levels of Mg were before and after dosing? And - I completely agree with you - it's unlikely that you're overdosing Mg in all likelihood.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It's quite bold to state that so factually. I understand the efficacy of Epsom salt is widely debated, if not outright disputed by many. However I've had good success with it anecdotally, in fact I've had a few cases of treating with erythromycin yielding no results until Epsom salt was used, at which swelling reduced markedly within 24 hours. I've encountered this multiple times, enough to where i no longer consider it strictly a coincidence, even if i don't entirely understand the mechanisms at play. Could it still be coincidence or due to the latency period which antibiotics take to register, and it's simply a placebo? Yes I fully acknowledge that could be a logical fallacy. On the other hand there could also be a synergistic effect which isn't totally understood. However I will continue to use, and advocate its use in conjuction with erythromycin, on the basis that at best many hobbyist have reported success with it, and at worst it's virtually inert in the context of QT treatment, cheap and readily available. Maybe it's a myth, but at least it's a harmless one.

It is pretty simple really - some people extrapolated using Epsom salts from freshwater, and it just got passed around as dogma. In marine aquariums, magnesium sulfate is the fourth most common salt in the mixes used. Adding a little bit more does nothing for marine fish. If that was the case, you could "cure" fish issues by just increasing the salinity of the water...that would raise the magnesium and sulfate ions by the same amount.

Another fallacy is feeding fish peas if they are constipated. I know the aquarist at the Shedd aquarium who developed this back in the 1960's - he only did it for specific problems that oranda goldfish get. People picked up the idea and have spread it around so much it also has gotten misapplied.

The trouble is that many issues with aquarium fish are either fatal right away, or heal on their own over time. With the latter, it is easy to apply some treatment and see the fish recover, but it would have with no treatment at all. The classic case is Lymphocystis. The old joke is you can cure it by saying "Abra Cadabra" over the tank each night for six weeks (which is about as long as it takes for that disease to go into remission by itself.

Here is a post I made about other fallacies in aquariums:

Myths and Misinformation - fish edition

These are often repeated bits of information that are perpetuated by people using old or incorrect information. Once it becomes "common knowledge" it continues to spread through the Internet, often being changed or over-simplified in the process. These are some examples of misinformation about...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Tub Life]

Lol Jay, wish I had found this thread earlier!

And don't even ask why I got such a big tub either lol.

So what does one do with all this epsom salt now that I have it?! Lol

I got 5 lyretails and oddly enough my initial issue was the guy at the store managed to bag me the 1 anthias in the bunch missing half a tail.

She has just about fully regrown her tail now, no longer looking like a freshwater sword tail lol.

However, what I believe to be a sub-male developed gas under one eye and was hoping the epsom salts would help with it.

Hey OP, how is that lyretail doing? Bubble receded and gone? Or still dealing with it? Hope he's all recovered!

 

[MnFish1]

Lol Jay, wish I had found this thread earlier!

And don't even ask why I got such a big tub either lol.

So what does one do with all this epsom salt now that I have it?! Lol

I got 5 lyretails and oddly enough my initial issue was the guy at the store managed to bag me the 1 anthias in the bunch missing half a tail.

She has just about fully regrown her tail now, no longer looking like a freshwater sword tail lol.

However, what I believe to be a sub-male developed gas under one eye and was hoping the epsom salts would help with it.

Hey OP, how is that lyretail doing? Bubble receded and gone? Or still dealing with it? Hope he's all recovered!

OK this is a joke - but - if you ever need a colonoscopy - you have a source of Mg.... It's a joke. Most colonoscopy preps are Mg lol

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OK this is a joke - but - if you ever need a colonoscopy - you have a source of Mg.... It's a joke. Most colonoscopy preps are Mg lol

Or it works for soaking sore feet also, doesn’t it?