Live Rock in Sump/Cycling Questions

[RWReefer]

Question for the experts. I am considering adding some live rock (8lb TBS rubble) to my sump in a brand new setup (Marine X 110.4 - 80g tank/30g sump). The display tank is scaped with 100% dry Marco rock and dry sand.

Is the assumption here that the live rock will distribute its beneficial bacteria to the display tank via return pump and essentially cycle it that way?

Should I add ammonia to the display to help kickstart the bacteria in the display, feeding it?

Would the assumption be that if I add ammonia and the beneficial bacteria from the sump clears it in the display tank that the tank is cycled?

Should I also add Dr. Tims in the display for increased diversity of bacteria?

Is there any risk for having hitchhikers on the live rock in the sump make it to the tank?

I plan on adding fish and corals slowly, so the most I would add right now would be a couple clowns for the kids, but I’m guessing that the live rock needs some ammonia in the tank to feed it, right?

Thank you for the help! Just trying to make sure I am understanding the science here.

 

[Osbie Feel]

Well I'm not an expert but here is my 2 cents.

Is the assumption here that the live rock will distribute its beneficial bacteria to the display tank via return pump and essentially cycle it that way?

Yes, the bacteria will spread throughout the tank from the live rock and the water it comes in.

Should I add ammonia to the display to help kickstart the bacteria in the display, feeding it?

You could, people will also put fish food or the like in as food for the bacteria. IMO you could put a small fish in after the LR and it would be fine. 8lbs of LR plus the fact that your tank is > 100 gallons means that there won't ever be a significant amount of ammonia, certainly not enough to harm a fish (others may disagree).

Would the assumption be that if I add ammonia and the beneficial bacteria from the sump clears it in the display tank that the tank is cycled?

Cycling and the nitrogen cycle are topics too big to cover here and I suggest doing much more independent research. But the short answer is that the tank is considered cycled when ammonia and nitrite have both spiked and gone to zero and been converted to nitrates.

Should I also add Dr. Tims in the display for increased diversity of bacteria?

IMO, this would be a waste of time and money. IIRC Dr. Tims contains only about 3 species of nitrifying bacteria. This won't come close to the diversity of species that will come along on your live rock.

Is there any risk for having hitchhikers on the live rock in the sump make it to the tank?

Depends on the hitchhiker but broadly speaking yes. But this is a good thing. Bristle worms, brittle stars, copepods, etc. are generally beneficial things to have in your display.

Good luck!

 

[RWReefer]

Well I'm not an expert but here is my 2 cents.


Yes, the bacteria will spread throughout the tank from the live rock and the water it comes in.


You could, people will also put fish food or the like in as food for the bacteria. IMO you could put a small fish in after the LR and it would be fine. 8lbs of LR plus the fact that your tank is > 100 gallons means that there won't ever be a significant amount of ammonia, certainly not enough to harm a fish (others may disagree).


Cycling and the nitrogen cycle are topics too big to cover here and I suggest doing much more independent research. But the short answer is that the tank is considered cycled when ammonia and nitrite have both spiked and gone to zero and been converted to nitrates.


IMO, this would be a waste of time and money. IIRC Dr. Tims contains only about 3 species of nitrifying bacteria. This won't come close to the diversity of species that will come along on your live rock.


Depends on the hitchhiker but broadly speaking yes. But this is a good thing. Bristle worms, brittle stars, copepods, etc. are generally beneficial things to have in your display.

Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to respond. The more the merrier as far as live rock in the sump is concerned?

 

[SaltyWalty]

Definitely not an expert but I would not add ammonia as there will be a good bit of die off from the live rock (sponges, coralline, macros, all sorts of little organics) which will all release ammonia as they decay
It will definitely help seed your tank with bacteria and from my experience speeds up the cycle
As far as hitchhikers. High salinity dips can help as well as, putting live rock in a simple 10 gallon holding tank or even a bucked with a wave maker and heater and observe it for hitchhikers for a few days

 

[RWReefer]

Definitely not an expert but I would not add ammonia as there will be a good bit of die off from the live rock (sponges, coralline, macros, all sorts of little organics) which will all release ammonia as they decay
It will definitely help seed your tank with bacteria and from my experience speeds up the cycle
As far as hitchhikers. High salinity dips can help as well as, putting live rock in a simple 10 gallon holding tank or even a bucked with a wave maker and heater and observe it for hitchhikers for a few days

That’s a good point about the die off that I did not consider. So the strategy then would be to add the live and just monitor through testing? Look for the ammonia spike and then the latter nitrite and nitrate?

 

[rc8t6353]

The more live rock you add the better. Any die off will provide the ammonia, and it only helps with getting the dry rock seeded with bacteria

 

[RWReefer]

The more live rock you add the better. Any die off will provide the ammonia, and it only helps with getting the dry rock seeded with bacteria

I appreciate the response!

 

[SaltyWalty]

That’s a good point about the die off that I did not consider. So the strategy then would be to add the live and just monitor through testing? Look for the ammonia spike and then the latter nitrite and nitrate?

Yeah that’s basically it. Since you don’t have live stock in the tank yet you should have to worry about any ammonia spike hurting things.

 

[rc8t6353]

Yeah that’s basically it. Since you don’t have live stock in the tank yet you should have to worry about any ammonia spike hurting things.

If you add the live rock, then slowly add livestock, don't be surprised if you test and don't see ammonia. It's just the live rock doing it's thing

 

[RWReefer]

If you add the live rock, then slowly add livestock, don't be surprised if you test and don't see ammonia. It's just the live rock doing it's thing

Definitely. I was planning to just start with a couple clowns and then start adding a new fish with about a 2-3 month buffer between each addition. Do you think that’s sufficient to let the tank equilibrate to the bio load?

 

[SaltyWalty]

Definitely. I was planning to just start with a couple clowns and then start adding a new fish with about a 2-3 month buffer between each addition. Do you think that’s sufficient to let the tank equilibrate to the bio load?

That’s plenty of time. I’ve definitely been inpatient and added fish faster than that but usually results in some uglies or nutrient spikes. Patience is definitely beneficial!

 

[RWReefer]

That’s plenty of time. I’ve definitely been inpatient and added fish faster than that but usually results in some uglies or nutrient spikes. Patience is definitely beneficial!

Right on. Thank you!

 

[rc8t6353]

Definitely. I was planning to just start with a couple clowns and then start adding a new fish with about a 2-3 month buffer between each addition. Do you think that’s sufficient to let the tank equilibrate to the bio load?

Absolutely! And corals. Just continue to test your water and you'll be good to go!

 

[RWReefer]

Absolutely! And corals. Just continue to test your water and you'll be good to go!

Definitely will start incorporating corals as well. When would be the appropriate time to start introducing the CUC?

 

[rc8t6353]

Definitely will start incorporating corals as well. When would be the appropriate time to start introducing the CUC?

When you start seeing the uglies pop up. It's usually diatoms then green hair algae. If you put them in too soon they won't have anything to eat

 

[RWReefer]

When you start seeing the uglies pop up. It's usually diatoms then green hair algae. If you put them in too soon they won't have anything to eat

Is there any risk to not adding first fish immediately after adding live rock? Might purchase from Dr. Reef so unsure how long they would take to ship.

 

[rc8t6353]

Whatever you do I'd add the live rock first. Then fish, then cuc