Issues with adding new fish

[pinkflamingo]

I wanted a saltwater tank for the past year but nearly gave up on it until someone posted an established 125 gallon with sump for sale. It came with livestock which consisted of 2 oscellaris clowns, an engineer goby that was about 8 inches, 3 decent sized monos and a cuc of 2 snails and 4 hermit crabs. I brought everything home, but due to some reworking of the tank, I set them up in an emergency 55 gallon for 2 weeks. Everything survived minus a tiny snail that I accidently buried too deep in the sand.

I wasn't a big fan of the monos, so when I was transferring everything over, I swapped the monos with a watchman goby and pistol shrimp pair. I transferred all the sand and rock and also added about 75% dry rock that I had previously collected and washed.

2 days later, I found a dead watchman goby. My husband had done the acclimation of it and did not drop acclimated, just temp acclimated and then dumped it in. I went and got another watchman goby a few days later and drip acclimated it. 3 days later I found it's dead body.

I gave up on watchmen gobies for the time being and decided to try pj cardinals. I got 3 very small ones and put them in the tank. I didn't really see them eating and tried a variety of flake, frozen, and sinking pellets at my normal clown feeding time and also at night with the lights out. One by one, over the course of 5 days, I found their dead little corpses. I decided to get rid of the engineering goby even though he was my favorite because I was scared he was killing the small gobies and I wasn't sure how he would take me trying to build a stock while adding small fishes.

This brings me to yesterday when I went and got the last pj cardinal and a orange spot goby. I drop acclimated both and fed the pj cardinal a bunch of brine shrimp that I had hatched 3 days previously. I saw it eat and was very happy. Put them both in the tank and the pj hid in a little cave and the goby I can only assume found the pistol shrimp and is hiding with it. Today, the pj cardinal is nowhere to be found and I am presuming it is dead. I cannot locate the goby, but I wasn't sure if I would see him that much even.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. Its a big tank with a tiny bioload. The ugly phase is finishing up. I added copepods when the ugly stage started and can see them happily crawling all over the glass. I have a decent amount of cheato in a breeder box as well that I turn over every few days.

I use an API test kit right now and the ammonia test I don't trust but shows fairly low at .25, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 10. pH is reading at about 8.2 when I have tested.

What am I doing wrong? I want to get other fish but I am scared because I just feel like nothing is going to live. I don't want to get expensive fish in case they die. None of the fish I put in showed any signs of disease. The clowns tend to keep to themselves when the lights are on. I have freshwater tanks and I have never had an attrition rate this high. Heck, I've only had a handful of fish die in those over the span of 7 years. This is getting ridiculous and it's getting really really hard to find any motivation to do anything with this tank.

 

[nuxx]

You might have inherited somebody else's problem.

It's not fun, but a huge key to this hobby is quarantining your fish and anything wet TBH.

When I started, I didn't quarantine anything and did lose most of my livestock. I didn't know why either.

There is more than likely something underlying going on.

If you can pull the fish and use the 55 gallon a properly quarantine, I personally use copper and prazipro (not at the same time) to catch pretty much everything.

Also will want to let the tank sit fishless for 6-8 weeks to let any parasites die off. During this time you should have got the fish through their treatment and back to being healthy and happy in QT before moving back to the display.

Also test test test the display to make sure all the parameters are in check during this time.

 

[Super Fly]

Agreed.
How old was this tank? Listing other tank parameters would also be helpful, i.e. salinity, temp, PO4 etc. How much sand was there and was it rinsed prior to putting them back into tank? I would keep testing the Ammonia, NO3 & PO4.
I suspect disturbing old dirty sand while adding new dry rock may have resulted in unstable tank parameters...

 

[pinkflamingo]

Agreed.
How old was this tank? Listing other tank parameters would also be helpful, i.e. salinity, temp, PO4 etc. How much sand was there and was it rinsed prior to putting them back into tank? I would keep testing the Ammonia, NO3 & PO4.
I suspect disturbing old dirty sand while adding new dry rock may have resulted in unstable tank parameters...

The tank was 1 year old according to the guy when I got it. pH 8.0, salinity 1.023, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, and nitrates 10.

The sand was not rinsed and it had been set up again for 3 weeks when I added the Cardinals.

I did get a orange spot goby that paired with its pistol shrimp friend and has been successfully seen on a daily basis. I also added a royal Gramma that has lived. It's just the Cardinals that I have been struggling with apparently. I think I will give up on them and just get some anthias instead.

As for quarantining and going fallow...I did not and do not plan on doing that. I think it's far more stressful on the fishes, personally. I haven't seen any spots or any parasites on the fishes I've brought in, and I'm under the belief that no matter what, all tanks have ich. I understand the risk I am taking with it, and that it's a roughly 50/50 take in the salt world on this opinion. I will certainly change my mind if things tank though. But for now, I am just building my stock up.

 

[Geebs19]

It trying to be a jerk here, but you have killed 6 fish in a very small matter of time. You need to slow down and figure out what is going on. Don’t keep buying fish in hopes that it will just work out. As someone mentioned quarantining fish is highly recommended. It only takes one fish that you buy to cause an entire tank to wipe out.

 

[pinkflamingo]

It trying to be a jerk here, but you have killed 6 fish in a very small matter of time. You need to slow down and figure out what is going on. Don’t keep buying fish in hopes that it will just work out. As someone mentioned quarantining fish is highly recommended. It only takes one fish that you buy to cause an entire tank to wipe ou

 

[pinkflamingo]

You do you, and I'll do me. I do believe that 2 watchmen gobies being killed by and engineer goby and 4 fish from the same lot dying over the span of 5 weeks isn't as insane as you're making it out to be. If there was a horrible problem that will wreck my tank it would likely have already wiped everything out by now. Pretty sure that yes, something was wrong with the Cardinals, but I have spoken with a few other hobbiests who also have had no luck with cardinals. Was hoping for insight other than this blanket "trash people for not quarantining" thing because that doesn't help anyone.

 

[davidcalgary29]

You do you, and I'll do me. I do believe that 2 watchmen gobies being killed by and engineer goby and 4 fish from the same lot dying over the span of 5 weeks isn't as insane as you're making it out to be.

If this is, in fact, the case, then you might want to set up a remote camera system through which you can surveil your tank throughout the day. Fish certainly can act in a completely different manner when we're not around.

But I also see no evidence that anyone's "trashed" people for not quarantining in this thread. Many of us are speaking from painful experience earned from not quarantining incoming fish into a new tank, and are offering ourselves as cautionary tale. I tried the non-quarantining method myself on one of my tanks (I have five), and ended up killing all but one fish by importing some virulent, nasty pathogen that I couldn't diagnose. I've lots a few fish here and there from other causes, but disease has been the biggest killer. It's always easier to keep out a disease than it is to "manage" it or eradicate it later.

 

[pinkflamingo]

If this is, in fact, the case, then you might want to set up a remote camera system through which you can surveil your tank throughout the day. Fish certainly can act in a completely different manner when we're not around.

But I also see no evidence that anyone's "trashed" people for not quarantining in this thread. Many of us are speaking from painful experience earned from not quarantining incoming fish into a new tank, and are offering ourselves as cautionary tale. I tried the non-quarantining method myself on one of my tanks (I have five), and ended up killing all but one fish by importing some virulent, nasty pathogen that I couldn't diagnose. I've lots a few fish here and there from other causes, but disease has been the biggest killer. It's always easier to keep out a disease than it is to "manage" it or eradicate it later

If this is, in fact, the case, then you might want to set up a remote camera system through which you can surveil your tank throughout the day. Fish certainly can act in a completely different manner when we're not around.

But I also see no evidence that anyone's "trashed" people for not quarantining in this thread. Many of us are speaking from painful experience earned from not quarantining incoming fish into a new tank, and are offering ourselves as cautionary tale. I tried the non-quarantining method myself on one of my tanks (I have five), and ended up killing all but one fish by importing some virulent, nasty pathogen that I couldn't diagnose. I've lots a few fish here and there from other causes, but disease has been the biggest killer. It's always easier to keep out a disease than it is to "manage" it or eradicate it later.

I get it. I see people all the time who add fish to their tanks and get an outbreak of something and everything dies. But, I also see people quarantine and mess it up and their fish die. I didn't take any of this lightly. I researched for 8 months and almost didn't even get into saltwater because of the cost but came across a cheap large tank that I couldn't pass up and that's why I'm hear. You say people don't trash those who don't quarantine, but the previous 2 people immediately brought up quarantining instead of paying attention and feeding the fish. I have seen it on many pages, but I also see an equal amount of people saying to feed the fish well and just make sure they don't have internal parasites and it will most likely pass. I posted here hoping to get an insight as to why a particular fish was dying, and instead was guilted for not quarantining everything when I got an already established tank. The Cardinals are the only fish that I cannot pin an exact reason for dying on, and instead of getting any helpful advise, I'm just getting railed for quarantining procedures. I like cardinals, I would like to have them, but no helpful advice has been offered. They hid and died one by one with no obvious signs of disease. I am not the only one I know of with this issue, and it would be nice to get actual advice instead of being grilled about quarantine when other fish survived a 3 hour trip and also being introduced to the tank.

 

[AquaDaniel]

I’ve noticed there’re always some people that can’t focus on the post itself and quickly judge you using their “golden rules”. It sounds very strange. Gobies and pj cardinals are pretty hardy. Are the dead fish from the same LFS? Any symptoms of the dead fish bodies?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Well Hello! Welcome to R2R!
I am sure you are feeling all warm and fuzzy with our welcoming arms...
So if I am understand this correctly...
You have a pair of clowns doing well.
You used to have an engineer goby that was aggressive and killed two watchmen gobies in a row.
You have a Royal Gramma alive and well.
An Orange spot goby and his little buddy.
Some CUC.
So the real mystery is why can't the cardinals survive.
We have some options here of possibility’s.
1. Aggression
2. High stress
3. Nefarious collection practices (cyanide)
4. Not eating
5. Acclimation
It could be any one or a combination of these. I would suggest doing an observation QT in the future. Just to make sure that your new fish are eating and healthy. Maybe with a cheap 10g and a filter. I am also a fan of a acclimation box in your DT. This way it goes a long way to eliminate any tank aggression. I don't think there was a disease or an imbalance in your tank that was an issue.
Again welcome...

 

[gbroadbridge]

You do you, and I'll do me. I do believe that 2 watchmen gobies being killed by and engineer goby and 4 fish from the same lot dying over the span of 5 weeks isn't as insane as you're making it out to be. If there was a horrible problem that will wreck my tank it would likely have already wiped everything out by now. Pretty sure that yes, something was wrong with the Cardinals, but I have spoken with a few other hobbiests who also have had no luck with cardinals. Was hoping for insight other than this blanket "trash people for not quarantining" thing because that doesn't help anyone.

Asking for advice and then ignoring it.

Good luck.

BTW you should have chucked the old sand bed.

 

[pinkflamingo]

I’ve noticed there’re always some people that can’t focus on the post itself and quickly judge you using their “golden rules”. It sounds very strange. Gobies and pj cardinals are pretty hardy. Are the dead fish from the same LFS? Any symptoms of the dead fish bodies?

I read that pj cardinals are hardy, and that is what is so confusing to me. The fish were from the same store and came in at the same time. No signs of disease. Just one by one would die. The strangest death was the last one since it ate well while drip acclimating. Immediately hid in a cave and was dead less than 24 hours later. Since I've talked to others who have had issues with them, I was just wondering if they weren't as "hardy" as some claim or if maybe there was something I was missing.

 

[Super Fly]

Actually PJ cardinals are meaty food eaters and can starve to death if they haven't adapted to dry food. what type of food were they fed in ur tank? They are nocturnal fish and pretty much blind during the day and if there are aggressive/faster fish in the tank, PJ Cardinals can struggle to feed.

Also, most LFS around me these days post fish arrival dates on the tank, not sure if ur LFS does this & if not u can ask them when the fish arrived or how long they've been in the store. When I buy fish, I try to buy ones that have been at the LFS min 2 weeks to ensure they have adapted to tank life and been through store treatment. The longer they have been at the LFS the better. U can always ask them to feed the fish as well to confirm they are eating dry food. BTW, if u see any dead fish in the tanks, I'd be weary of buying livestock from that LFS.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Asking for advice and then ignoring it.

Good luck.

BTW you should have chucked the old sand bed.

I bet you're a real peach to be around...have a nice day!

Actually PJ cardinals are meaty food eaters and can starve to death if they haven't adapted to dry food. what type of food were they fed in ur tank? They are nocturnal fish and pretty much blind during the day and if there are aggressive/faster fish in the tank, PJ Cardinals can struggle to feed.

Also, most LFS around me these days post fish arrival dates on the tank, not sure if ur LFS does this & if not u can ask them when the fish arrived or how long they've been in the store. When I buy fish, I try to buy ones that have been at the LFS min 2 weeks to ensure they have adapted to tank life and been through store treatment. The longer they have been at the LFS the better. U can always ask them to feed the fish as well to confirm they are eating dry food. BTW, if u see any dead fish in the tanks, I'd be weary of buying livestock from that LFS.

Well Hello! Welcome to R2R!
I am sure you are feeling all warm and fuzzy with our welcoming arms...
So if I am understand this correctly...
You have a pair of clowns doing well.
You used to have an engineer goby that was aggressive and killed two watchmen gobies in a row.
You have a Royal Gramma alive and well.
An Orange spot goby and his little buddy.
Some CUC.
So the real mystery is why can't the cardinals survive.
We have some options here of possibility’s.
1. Aggression
2. High stress
3. Nefarious collection practices (cyanide)
4. Not eating
5. Acclimation
It could be any one or a combination of these. I would suggest doing an observation QT in the future. Just to make sure that your new fish are eating and healthy. Maybe with a cheap 10g and a filter. I am also a fan of a acclimation box in your DT. This way it goes a long way to eliminate any tank aggression. I don't think there was a disease or an imbalance in your tank that was an issue.
Again welcome...

Thanks for your insight! Fish collection with cyanide?!?! I'm gonna have to research that a little...I figured this guys/gals were probably tank raised, but I didn't ask. I do think that something stressed them out and picked them off, but the highest suspect on the list is the clowns at nighttime maybe? They just kinda swam around them curiously, but didn't seem to bother them. Also in conjunction with not eating for the first 3, but the last death was most confounding because it did eat a ton of fresh hatched brine shrimp and died less than 24 hours later.

I was very hesitant to add the royal Gramma, but it has been a fun fish that eats and comes out and seems to be liking it's rocks. If something bad we're to happen to it, I would most definitely take everything out of the tank, but I'm fairly confident it wasn't disease at this point.

I think if I do decide to get cardinals again, it will require growing them out a bit in a qt tank which my husband adamantly doesn't want me to set up. They were pretty small, like 2" total body and fin size. I just wanted to know if there may have been something that I was missing like getting too few or the wrong number or maybe something else that I am unaware of. There is 80 lbs of rock in there with plenty of hideouts, lower flow areas, and lower light areas. The nighttime was when they would vanish then pop up around the pistol shrimp hideout.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Actually PJ cardinals are meaty food eaters and can starve to death if they haven't adapted to dry food. what type of food were they fed in ur tank? They are nocturnal fish and pretty much blind during the day and if there are aggressive/faster fish in the tank, PJ Cardinals can struggle to feed.

Also, most LFS around me these days post fish arrival dates on the tank, not sure if ur LFS does this & if not u can ask them when the fish arrived or how long they've been in the store. When I buy fish, I try to buy ones that have been at the LFS min 2 weeks to ensure they have adapted to tank life and been through store treatment. The longer they have been at the LFS the better. U can always ask them to feed the fish as well to confirm they are eating dry food. BTW, if u see any dead fish in the tanks, I'd be weary of buying livestock from that LFS.

I tried a mix of sinking pellets, flakes, mysis, and brine shrimp. I would feed during my normal afternoon time for my other fishes, and then do the other mix about an hour after lights out.

The fish had arrived 4 days before I picked up the initial 3, and the last one had been there for 10 days before I brought it home. The guy also dropped flakes in the tank for the last one to prove it would eat, it didn't seem interested and scarfed down a ton of fresh hatched brine shrimp when I brought it home in the bag.

 

[Geebs19]

I get it. I see people all the time who add fish to their tanks and get an outbreak of something and everything dies. But, I also see people quarantine and mess it up and their fish die. I didn't take any of this lightly. I researched for 8 months and almost didn't even get into saltwater because of the cost but came across a cheap large tank that I couldn't pass up and that's why I'm hear. You say people don't trash those who don't quarantine, but the previous 2 people immediately brought up quarantining instead of paying attention and feeding the fish. I have seen it on many pages, but I also see an equal amount of people saying to feed the fish well and just make sure they don't have internal parasites and it will most likely pass. I posted here hoping to get an insight as to why a particular fish was dying, and instead was guilted for not quarantining everything when I got an already established tank. The Cardinals are the only fish that I cannot pin an exact reason for dying on, and instead of getting any helpful advise, I'm just getting railed for quarantining procedures. I like cardinals, I would like to have them, but no helpful advice has been offered. They hid and died one by one with no obvious signs of disease. I am not the only one I know of with this issue, and it would be nice to get actual advice instead of being grilled about quarantine when other fish survived a 3 hour trip and also being introduced to the tank.

I am not sure how you took my post as trashing you for not quarantining. I suggested it, I didnt slam you for not doing it. What I did say was you need to stop adding fish until you can figure out what is going on. Continuing to put fish in when you have already lost 6 in a row is ignorance.

 

[pinkflamingo]

I am not sure how you took my post as trashing you for not quarantining. I suggested it, I didnt slam you for not doing it. What I did say was you need to stop adding fish until you can figure out what is going on. Continuing to put fish in when you have already lost 6 in a row is ignorance.

2 died by engineer goby, 4 died from unknown causes that were the same fish from the same lot, and 3 have lived. I wouldn't say that track record is bad nor indicative of anything ignorant on my part. I am trying to figure it out and you're not helping. Saying to stop adding fish even though that's the point of having an aquarium is ignorant. You are purposely ignoring the facts here at this point.

 

[kevgib67]

Just thought this might be a good fit for you. There are multiple online vendors that sell preqaurntine fish that get rave reviews on this forum. Ya the cost is higher but it is offset by replacing fish that die or setting up a Qt tank. It might be perfect for that must have fish.

 

[Geebs19]

Just thought this might be a good fit for you. There are multiple online vendors that sell preqaurntine fish that get rave reviews on this forum. Ya the cost is higher but it is offset by replacing fish that die or setting up a Qt tank. It might be perfect for that must have fish.

The only concern I see with that is if there is already something present in the tank than its almost a waste to go this route other than you will be adding fish that most likely wont be introducing anything.