AKreuzer
Community Member
Preface: this has been my experience and findings...there may be unpopular opinions here but I want to leverage this to share my challenges and what I would do differntly and how I plan to move forward.
Tank Setup to start:
150g Display Tank
55g Sump
Theiling Compact Rollermat
2 inch carribsea live sand
150ish lbs. of rock about 70% white Marco rock and 30% Life Rock
I started reefing almost 2 years ago. I got free tanks (150g and a 55g) and dove face first into the hobby. I had no practical experience, just what I had read, the internet and an amazing LFS. When it came to cycling the tank, I did fish in, 2 oscilarous clowns and Dr Tims All-in-One. So, I was off to the races right? No....it took a long time to cycle compared to what others were seeing on FB...I associate this with having a larger tank and the rollermat. BRS does say that a rollermat may work TOO well. but no worries, I kept on trucking. I progressed adding fish and enjoyed the ride for a while.... after about 9 months I had what i was calling Red Hair Algae...in fact it was probably Diatoms Ill add a photo in a follow up post, but it was gnarly and just over running things. At this point my nutrients were super low NO3 was 5-10 and PO4 was .05-.15. Then the Diatoms cleared up and nutrients went up....and up....and up I added a 40w AI UV sterilizer then a Reef Octopus Regal 200sss and still were going up and ended up peaking around NO3 65-75 and PO4 .65-75 (I was using Hanna checkers and think 75/.75 are the upper limits so they may have gone higher).
At this point I was fairly stocked for fish but very little coral. Everything seemed healthy. There was no leading indicators of something being off other than high nutrients compared to what everyone recommended and i was pretty aligned to the Redfield ration ~1:100. so I knew as early into the hobby as I was I should do something and then 18months in the Green Hair Algae Popped up and it got bad.
About 4 months ago the Green Hair Algae arrived and I am still battling it things I have done include thoroughly cleaning out the sump. I noticed some compartments had buildup of detritus and other debris so wet vac'd and scrubbed them down which had a pretty good indicator that this was helping it dropped my NO4 to about 40 and then my PO3 to .50.
I added a refugium, I think they are cool and thought it would be a good way to naturally reduce the nutrients....it probably is but it didn’t have an affect on my nutrients and I think the first few batches of cheato broke down and added to the issue....it caught detritus or allowed for it to build up on it. I started dosing Brightwell Iron Ferrion and that allowed the last batch of cheato to hang on longer but it never really grew so I ended up throwing what was there out and focused in other areas.
I started having a ton of conversations with other reefers online and locally about the quantity of food I was putting in as it hasn’t really changed in almost 9 months before the GHA showed up so I thought it was fine....it wasn’t I was feeding LRS Reef Frenzy daily along with 3/4 of a sheet of LRS Seaweed. At this time I wasn’t measuring my frozen food. I was breaking off a chunk thinking it was close enough and if it was too much I had a rollermat and a protein skimmer that would have my back and get it out before it broke down.....nope
So the next thing I did was reduce feeding....I now do 1/2 a sheet of LRS Seaweed 2-3 times per week and got into the habit of taking the packet of frozen food and measuring out exactly 1"x1.25" squares which will make I pack last a whole month. This then too had a great result....My NO4 is now down to 20 but PO3 is still at .50
so now what and where does Marco come into this? Well some local reefers who have been in the hobby for a long time (20+years) really had nothing good to say about Marco Rock and that I could have to wait up until 3 years for the rock to mature and stabilize. Many suggested that my nutrients will be all over the place until the rock stabilizes which means 18 more months of radical nutrients and nuisance algae. (I now see why some quit the hobby) There is not a ton of info or studies on it. If you watch BRS or talk to some LFS they praise it but at the same time they have a financial tie to selling it.
Testing
I put my thinking cap on and thought if my problem was the rock how can I prove it? I took rock out of my sump (all the extra pieces that I was lead to believe would be beneficial as additional surface area for beneficial bacteria) and put it in a bucket with fresh mixed saltwater with NO4 0.00 and PO3 0.00 water, covered it, and let it sit for 7 days. After it sat for 7 days the PO4 went up to .43
My Marco white rock had leached out into the water enough to make the water increase to .43? if that is happening with a few rocks in a small bucket how much is that 100+ lbs of rock leaching out into the water. I had scrubbed my sump/overflow/siphoned my sand and had even taken most rock out and scrubbed with a tooth brush to remove the GHA sooo is all that i am left with water changes? lanthium? what?
Well here is my approach:
-I am going to remove all the rock from the sump...theres only a few pieces left but that much less to continue leaching PO3
-any pieces that I can afford to lose from the display tank will also go
-I have ordered 20lbs Tamp Bay Live rock that will allow me to replace some more rock in the Display tank
-I am hoping that this will bring the PO numbers down enough to be within the RF Ratio
If that doesn’t work I am thinking GFO in a reactor until the PO in the remaining Marco rock is equivalent to that of the water and within the RF Ratio
CONCLUSION FROM THE "NEW" GUY
- Is Marco Rock the enemy? No I don’t think so but I also don’t think that social media and content creators present it appropriately. In my opinion the rock is a sponge for a very long time. I believe it masked some of the indicators of my over feeding so long that by the time I had indicators the problem had perpetuated beyond what I could comprehend at that time.
-Over feeding- you can see in my previous posts and other areas that you are probably over feeding....sure what there is not guide that is reasonably prescriptive for newbies and if nutrients is supposed to be your indicator for newbies to calibrate your feeding quantities then Yes I believe Marco Rock is the enemy as it absorbs that nutrient to a point where when you are reacting to the increase levels your adjustments have little to no affect.
-Content creators. It killed me as a newbie to see folks posting these "new" thanks that looked jaw dropping. "here's my tank at 6 months in! 1 year in" whatever, stop it! or preface it with I started with cycled rock or cycled water or whatever cause in my experience your crushing the spirits of those like me that started with dry rock and life rock and have been struggling for 18months or more because of the lack of experience feeding and the lack of documentation on how Marco rock reacts in a tank over time.
Again my thoughts and opinions of my experience over that last 18months. I hope this is helpful to someone at some point or gets a conversation started so that way new people are coming into the product a bit more eye open.
Tank Setup to start:
150g Display Tank
55g Sump
Theiling Compact Rollermat
2 inch carribsea live sand
150ish lbs. of rock about 70% white Marco rock and 30% Life Rock
I started reefing almost 2 years ago. I got free tanks (150g and a 55g) and dove face first into the hobby. I had no practical experience, just what I had read, the internet and an amazing LFS. When it came to cycling the tank, I did fish in, 2 oscilarous clowns and Dr Tims All-in-One. So, I was off to the races right? No....it took a long time to cycle compared to what others were seeing on FB...I associate this with having a larger tank and the rollermat. BRS does say that a rollermat may work TOO well. but no worries, I kept on trucking. I progressed adding fish and enjoyed the ride for a while.... after about 9 months I had what i was calling Red Hair Algae...in fact it was probably Diatoms Ill add a photo in a follow up post, but it was gnarly and just over running things. At this point my nutrients were super low NO3 was 5-10 and PO4 was .05-.15. Then the Diatoms cleared up and nutrients went up....and up....and up I added a 40w AI UV sterilizer then a Reef Octopus Regal 200sss and still were going up and ended up peaking around NO3 65-75 and PO4 .65-75 (I was using Hanna checkers and think 75/.75 are the upper limits so they may have gone higher).
At this point I was fairly stocked for fish but very little coral. Everything seemed healthy. There was no leading indicators of something being off other than high nutrients compared to what everyone recommended and i was pretty aligned to the Redfield ration ~1:100. so I knew as early into the hobby as I was I should do something and then 18months in the Green Hair Algae Popped up and it got bad.
About 4 months ago the Green Hair Algae arrived and I am still battling it things I have done include thoroughly cleaning out the sump. I noticed some compartments had buildup of detritus and other debris so wet vac'd and scrubbed them down which had a pretty good indicator that this was helping it dropped my NO4 to about 40 and then my PO3 to .50.
I added a refugium, I think they are cool and thought it would be a good way to naturally reduce the nutrients....it probably is but it didn’t have an affect on my nutrients and I think the first few batches of cheato broke down and added to the issue....it caught detritus or allowed for it to build up on it. I started dosing Brightwell Iron Ferrion and that allowed the last batch of cheato to hang on longer but it never really grew so I ended up throwing what was there out and focused in other areas.
I started having a ton of conversations with other reefers online and locally about the quantity of food I was putting in as it hasn’t really changed in almost 9 months before the GHA showed up so I thought it was fine....it wasn’t I was feeding LRS Reef Frenzy daily along with 3/4 of a sheet of LRS Seaweed. At this time I wasn’t measuring my frozen food. I was breaking off a chunk thinking it was close enough and if it was too much I had a rollermat and a protein skimmer that would have my back and get it out before it broke down.....nope
So the next thing I did was reduce feeding....I now do 1/2 a sheet of LRS Seaweed 2-3 times per week and got into the habit of taking the packet of frozen food and measuring out exactly 1"x1.25" squares which will make I pack last a whole month. This then too had a great result....My NO4 is now down to 20 but PO3 is still at .50
so now what and where does Marco come into this? Well some local reefers who have been in the hobby for a long time (20+years) really had nothing good to say about Marco Rock and that I could have to wait up until 3 years for the rock to mature and stabilize. Many suggested that my nutrients will be all over the place until the rock stabilizes which means 18 more months of radical nutrients and nuisance algae. (I now see why some quit the hobby) There is not a ton of info or studies on it. If you watch BRS or talk to some LFS they praise it but at the same time they have a financial tie to selling it.
Testing
I put my thinking cap on and thought if my problem was the rock how can I prove it? I took rock out of my sump (all the extra pieces that I was lead to believe would be beneficial as additional surface area for beneficial bacteria) and put it in a bucket with fresh mixed saltwater with NO4 0.00 and PO3 0.00 water, covered it, and let it sit for 7 days. After it sat for 7 days the PO4 went up to .43
My Marco white rock had leached out into the water enough to make the water increase to .43? if that is happening with a few rocks in a small bucket how much is that 100+ lbs of rock leaching out into the water. I had scrubbed my sump/overflow/siphoned my sand and had even taken most rock out and scrubbed with a tooth brush to remove the GHA sooo is all that i am left with water changes? lanthium? what?
Well here is my approach:
-I am going to remove all the rock from the sump...theres only a few pieces left but that much less to continue leaching PO3
-any pieces that I can afford to lose from the display tank will also go
-I have ordered 20lbs Tamp Bay Live rock that will allow me to replace some more rock in the Display tank
-I am hoping that this will bring the PO numbers down enough to be within the RF Ratio
If that doesn’t work I am thinking GFO in a reactor until the PO in the remaining Marco rock is equivalent to that of the water and within the RF Ratio
CONCLUSION FROM THE "NEW" GUY
- Is Marco Rock the enemy? No I don’t think so but I also don’t think that social media and content creators present it appropriately. In my opinion the rock is a sponge for a very long time. I believe it masked some of the indicators of my over feeding so long that by the time I had indicators the problem had perpetuated beyond what I could comprehend at that time.
-Over feeding- you can see in my previous posts and other areas that you are probably over feeding....sure what there is not guide that is reasonably prescriptive for newbies and if nutrients is supposed to be your indicator for newbies to calibrate your feeding quantities then Yes I believe Marco Rock is the enemy as it absorbs that nutrient to a point where when you are reacting to the increase levels your adjustments have little to no affect.
-Content creators. It killed me as a newbie to see folks posting these "new" thanks that looked jaw dropping. "here's my tank at 6 months in! 1 year in" whatever, stop it! or preface it with I started with cycled rock or cycled water or whatever cause in my experience your crushing the spirits of those like me that started with dry rock and life rock and have been struggling for 18months or more because of the lack of experience feeding and the lack of documentation on how Marco rock reacts in a tank over time.
Again my thoughts and opinions of my experience over that last 18months. I hope this is helpful to someone at some point or gets a conversation started so that way new people are coming into the product a bit more eye open.
