Inconsistent Alk/Calc - Struggle to understand next steps

[Pocket84]

I cannot get my alkalinity and calcium to stay above 8 and 400 with dosing an insane amount of 2 part. I was literally creating limestone in the sump and backwall of the aquarium. I would like to better understand my next steps to get my alkalinity to 9 and calcium to 440ish.

I have read the thread on the relationship of alkalinity and calcium. Did a reset on the tank to better understand my levels then started over.

Currently my alkalinity is 7.37 and my calcium is at 353. This is with dosing 26ml every other hour of each on a 220g system. Alkalinity on the even hours and calcium on the odd hours. I am using a Neptune DOS to control the dosing and I have validated the calibration of the DOS and of the readings with Hanna checkers.

I will not add more context and hopefully get the discussion start then provide more info as needed. ( Trying to follow the "Tips to ask questions" thread)

 

[Jamie814]

I was literally creating limestone in the sump and backwall of the aquarium.

You are having major precipitation. You need to stop ALL dosing or you will never get it under control.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Is this a new tank or an established one?

 

[DanyL]

“Creating a limestone” sounds like precipitation to me..

What exactly are you dosing?
What’s your PH an Mag at?
What exactly do you mean by saying “creating a limestone” - what are you seeing?
Is the tank heavily stocked with corals?

 

[Pocket84]

Is this a new tank or an established one?

Thank you for replying.

It is a newish tank, and I am new to the hobby. The tank has been up since December and had fish in it since January. The first coral went in sometime in February. Call it seven months now.

 

[Pocket84]

“Creating a limestone” sounds like precipitation to me..

What exactly are you dosing?
What’s your PH an Mag at?
What exactly do you mean by saying “creating a limestone” - what are you seeing?
Is the tank heavily stocked with corals?

I am dosing BRS soda ash and calcium chloride.

My pH is averaging 8.2, and my mag is 1344.

It was precipitation, I think, so I stopped dosing altogether to reset. I could not keep up with the pump failures. I saw pumps locking up, heavy build-up on my sump walls and my back wall, and build-up on my heaters.

Not heavily stocked, I have about 20 small frags.

 

[Jamie814]

Read this thread it should help you out,

Why wont my Ca & Alk stabilize?

Hello! I have had a new 90 gallon Redsea Penninsula system running for 2.5 months now and I've never had this much trouble balancing the calcium and alkalinity. I'd love any tips! I have one other tank (75 gallon system), so I'm targeting the same levels to make maintenance easy. This tank has...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Pocket84]

You are having major precipitation. You need to stop ALL dosing or you will never get it under control.

Thank you for replying. I stopped dosing for about a week and let everything settle. I am only dosing a very small amount right now, should I stop that?

 

[Pocket84]

Read this thread it should help you out,

Why wont my Ca & Alk stabilize?

Hello! I have had a new 90 gallon Redsea Penninsula system running for 2.5 months now and I've never had this much trouble balancing the calcium and alkalinity. I'd love any tips! I have one other tank (75 gallon system), so I'm targeting the same levels to make maintenance easy. This tank has...

www.reef2reef.com

Read and understood. This is exactly what happened to me as well. Sand is hardening in a few areas, I did a water change and cleared it up.

When I stopped dosing my alkalinity rested at around 6.1dKH.

 

[Jamie814]

should I stop that?

Yes, you need to stop all dosing. Once precipitation starts the only way to stop it is to basically "starve" the surface of more calcium and alk and let organics or a biofilm cover it.

 

[DanyL]

A heavy precipitation like you described above can be tough to fight against.

My suggestion is for you to scrape off any buildup you see, as well as soaking the pumps in acid to dissolve it, as well as switching to use Sodium Bicarbonate for awhile, or if possible (depends on your coral uptake and Alk levels) - to stop dosing altogether.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Thank you for replying.

It is a newish tank, and I am new to the hobby. The tank has been up since December and had fish in it since January. The first coral went in sometime in February. Call it seven months now.

Do you know what your Alk consumption is over the course of a week if you do not dose?

You say fish but don't mention what coral you have.

If you only have a few coral, I would not dose anything as long as your alk is above about 6.5 and then only dose enough to bring it back to about 7.

Young tanks can do strange stuff and sometime the best thing to do is not fight them and let them settle.

 

[Kovenant]

First if you only have fish, and not too many corals I will stop all dosing and back to the basics, do 20-30% water change every week for atleast 1 month and then continue with 10-20% water changes and do any dosing until you get everything stable only with water changes. In reality if you don't have a lot of corals you don't need to dose anything, just water changes are sufficient. Even with lots corals is that more than enough. I have 3 tanks and my 25 gallon maxed with mixed reef and across and I don't dose , only water change. My 200 gallon only have few corals and I don't dose at all. Now I'm going start setting up a doser for that one maybe next week becuase I bought 36 frags and some acro colonies. But I'm been in the hobby for 4 years and never use a doser before. Only water changes. That's the rule of thumb.

 

[Pocket84]

Do you know what your Alk consumption is over the course of a week if you do not dose?

You say fish but don't mention what coral you have.

If you only have a few coral, I would not dose anything as long as your alk is above about 6.5 and then only dose enough to bring it back to about 7.

Young tanks can do strange stuff and sometime the best thing to do is not fight them and let them settle.

I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. We have about 8 zoa frags, 2 torches, 2 hammers, 3 montis, a goni and, a xenia.

Ok, I just turned my doser off again, I will let it ride and see where it lands. I did scrape everything and clean the pumps over the weekend before I turned them back on. I hate a dirty sump. I never got a solid read on my alk consumption because it was swinging so much. Once I let it settle out, should I manually dose up the check daily usage?

 

[Kovenant]

I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. We have about 8 zoa frags, 2 torches, 2 hammers, 3 montis, a goni and, a xenia.

Ok, I just turned my doser off again, I will let it ride and see where it lands. I did scrape everything and clean the pumps over the weekend before I turned them back on. I hate a dirty sump. I never got a solid read on my alk consumption because it was swinging so much. Once I let it settle out, should I manually dose up the check daily usage?

Do the water changes and forget about dosing. With that amount corals if they aren't huge colonies, you can have everything fine with water changes, then when everything is stable you can check parameters but for now, I will say water changes, water changes, water changes.

 

[Pocket84]

First if you only have fish, and not too many corals I will stop all dosing and back to the basics, do 20-30% water change every week for atleast 1 month and then continue with 10-20% water changes and do any dosing until you get everything stable only with water changes. In reality if you don't have a lot of corals you don't need to dose anything, just water changes are sufficient. Even with lots corals is that more than enough. I have 3 tanks and my 25 gallon maxed with mixed reef and across and I don't dose , only water change. My 200 gallon only have few corals and I don't dose at all. Now I'm going start setting up a doser for that one maybe next week becuase I bought 36 frags and some acro colonies. But I'm been in the hobby for 4 years and never use a doser before. Only water changes. That's the rule of thumb.

Very nice, sounds like it will be amazing, can wait to see it!

I am doing an auto water change daily of about 2.5 gallons and a 5-10% every weekend.

 

[DanyL]

With this amount of stony coral in a 220 I wouldn’t be worried.

I also wouldn’t dose the tank daily in a normal operation because the weekly uptake would be close to non, and a water change would easily be able to replenish it.

Just make sure you put effort to clean the buildup as much as you can, this will significantly slow down the crystallization rate.

 

[Pod_01]

Perhaps transition or consider to use baking soda instead of soda ash ( baked soda).

High pH alk additives do lead to precipitation.
Once the tank develops and there is enough biofilm you can transition back to soda ash.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m copying my advice from the thread linked above:


This is my generic recommendation for precipitation issues (e.g., hardening sand):

1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.