I'm confused. Would be great to hear from some experienced people.

[Lennie]

Hey everyone,

I hope you are all doing well!

I have been keeping freshwater tanks for 15+years and currently have 26 tanks running. After all these years, I think I wanna add one saltwater (or reef? terms everywhere!) tank to my fishroom. (YES, only one, I have enough multiple tank syndrome going on)

I am already familiar with fishkeeping concept in general even though surely there are some differences between saltwater-freshwater tanks.

I have been watching and reading for a couple days, however, I have to mention I am super confused. Because every video I watch or every person I talk to IRL, says and recommends different stuff.

- Some suggest to add corals early. Some wait for months.
-Some add fish early. Some wait for up to 6 months.
-Some use bottle bacteria and add fish directly. I didnt come across cycling videos from the ones I watched, maybe its me. Normally running a freshwater tank for a couple week wouldnt make the tank cycled, there should be an ammonia source. I didnt come accross any fishless cycling happening in the videos. But in this forum I see the topic very similar to freshwater cycling.Adding bottled bacteria and fish directly would result in ammonia and nitrite problems and force you to do fish in cycle, no? That's confusing.
-Some use filters, powerhead and protein skimmer. Ive seen such beautiful tanks with no skimmer and filter but only powerhead, corals and liverocks.


If you ask me how I normally setup a freshwater tank:
Now:
Since I have many tanks now, I just can have my filters seeded in other tanks.
From zero:
I usually setup and scape the tank with plants on day one. Add something to create circulation in the tank if filter isn't in. Meanwhile, I cycle my filter either inside the tank, or another tub with ghost feeding, either by using bottled bacteria or squeezing established filter. Read ammonia nitrite, when they all clear out and I read only nitrate, so I slowly stock. At this point plants usually settle down and start growing. Never had problems this way.





anyway, my questions are as follows:

* I'm planning to use a 60x60x50cm high tank= 180 liters. I sadly lost my male discus from my pair, so I will move the female to the big community tank to make sure she does not feel lonely.

Is filter needed? If so, Can I make this setup work with a HOB filter?
Is protein skimmer needed?
Is powerhead needed in such setup considering its more cubic. Would using something that would over my tank capacity, like AC70 for example, would make using powerhead unneccesary?
How long should one wait to add corals?
I have RO water. Do you guys buffer your water by adding something, or let the rocks and substrate do its thingy?
Is there anything different in fishless cycling other than making sure to use saltwater bottled bacteria?



Sadly it is long. Many thanks in advance for your help. Please feel free to recommend anything to read and watch. I would appreciate that
Wish y'all a great week.
Lennie

P.s: What about having a freshwater fish pic as my avatar. Better than a huge L I guess
Cheers!

 

[1112-425XL]

BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide has some good videos that might answer a lot of your questions.

 

[Lavey29]

All this info is available online with a simple Google search. Salt is much more complicated then freshwater especially if you intend to add corals. Cycling can take a week or two with quick start like Dr. Tims. Fish can be added slowly after cycle has started. I waited 4 months to turn my lights on and add coral. This allows the tank to develop biodiversity and microfauna first and makes the various ugly stages over the first year manageable. Powerheads are needed. Skimmer is needed but optional. Flow is critical in a reef tank like the ocean. Lights are essential and maintaining correct parameters with weekly water changes.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Looks like your off to a good start. IMO, rocks and flow are the most important thing to consider when setting up the tank. It is the tank biofilter, more rock means stronger biofilter, and it provides hiding spaces for the animals and provides breeding space for micro organsims. Remember we are replicating the ocean, not a stream or pond, so flow is vital. I feel there can never be too much rock or flow. I run 2 tanks (1 fish only and 1 reef) with just rocks and flow, no other type of filtration except for weekly water changes. IMO, any tank 50 gallons and under and be maintained by water changes mainly. Google "the berlin filtration method", to me it is the religion of the hobby.

Since you very experienced, I would suggest to really research the types of mechanical and chemical filtration you want. It can be all HOB, unless you want to do a sump. Or neither.

A skimmer is beneficial especially if you want corals, but again, not at all necessary. However, one of its greatest "side" benefits is that it puts a lot of oxygen into the water.

This is a good guide:

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[acro.jordan]

Cycle is for fish not coral. I have set up many reefs with rock, sand, water and coral all being added on the first day. Stay with softies and easier to keep corals until you finish your cycle and you will be fine. Keep in mind we cycle to get rid of ammonia, which is toxic to fish but actually beneficial to coral.

Fish can also be added early/during the cycle but this is a case by case basis. Some refer to damsels, clowns, chromis and other like fish as “cycle fish”. This may be an older term although many hobbyists still practice it to this day. The idea of a cycle fish is that you introduce this fish to your system to cycle the tank. Bacteria is present on its body, ammonia is added and converted from its perpetual breathing, and waste is introduced to feed the bacteria whenever the fish poops. Some people may say cycling with a fish is cruel but to each their own.

Bottled bacteria can have its pros and cons. On one hand a bottle of “bacteria” can cycle your tank in a faster manner. Though many of my friends within the hobby who have used bottled bacteria end up with a prolonged cycle and often cloudy water as a result of the bacteria bloom.. meanwhile my fish $5 cycles keep my systems nice and clear.

Skimmers aren’t really necessary for tanks under say 30gal, anything over I would personally recommend one. Keep your tank simple and you will worry less - a lot of reefers fail to realize all they need is flow (pumps/powerhead), light (led or halide), constant temp (78-79 with heater) and to replenish your elements as the corals consume. One of the most blatant example of this would be frag shows. The vendors have tiny 5-10gal setups with a light, pump, and heater .. that’s it.. you look at the corals and they all look amazing. Sure it is just a temporary setup but this proves how little the corals need to be happy.


You will find a lot of information on the hobby here on R2R, Google and YouTube. But at the end of the day experience is the best teacher in a hobby filled with millions of variables. What works for one may not work for another and vise versa

Be able to separate yourself from the crowd and realize many companies push products which are not necessary. I have seen people spend hundreds of thousand of dollars on their setup but this never guarantee's success

Keep your water and everything else will follow, best of luck

**last but not least: have FUN and ENJOY the hobby… seems like some people lose sight of that along the way**

Acro Jordan

 

[Cell]

One of the great and sometimes confusing things about the reefing hobby is there is a multitude of ways to be successful. The key is picking a method that fits your lifestyle and perhaps philosophies.

Nobody should actually be encouraging a new hobbyist to add corals early. That's simply setting someone up for potential failure and disappointment.

Adding fish is fine regardless of time frame as long as the tank is cycled. This can be via the traditional method over 4 weeks or using bottled starter bac and stocking almost immediately. Brand name bottled bac products like Bio-Spira and Fritzyme are proven effective cycle starters.

You can make the hobby as complicated or as simple as you'd like. From custom tanks with full automation and control or a Petco special with a HOB filter, they can all be successful.

Nitrite is not harmful in our marine environment. We don't worry about nitrite. Once we see ammonia is being processed, we are good to slowly stock fish. With our tanks, the live rock is the primary source of nitrifying bacteria. We essentially cycle the rock and once the rock is cycled we can transfer it to any vessel we want and be good to go provided it stays wet.

HOB filters are fine.

Skimmer is highly recommended but not absolutely necessary depending on livestock choices.

Powerhead/flow/surface agitation is always needed. The Aquaclear won't be enough flow.

At least 6 months on corals for a new hobbyist, in my opinion. If you are more prudent, then closer to the 1 year mark. You will commonly hear that many reefers tanks didn't start to really take off until after the first year.

Add a DI unit to the RO if you can. Your RO water TDS is hopefully less than 10 right now and you ideally want it at 0. A DI stage will accomplish this.

If you are cycling fishless you just need an ammonia source, that can be a pinch of fish food or a shrimp. If you use bottled bac, follow the directions and you can trust them. Add a fish when they say you can.

 

[JoJosReef]

- Some suggest to add corals early. Some wait for months. Corals utilize ammonia more efficiently than nitrates, so the cycle doesn't affect them in terms of ammonia toxicity. They can be, however, picky about water parameter stability, and that is where cycling new rocks can result in unhappy corals. That said, more corals in your tank means more consumption, which you adjust for in your water changes/dosing to keep steady (and combat nuisance algae), so more corals gets to more stability in my opinion, which is circular. There's a great solution to this problem though.
-Some add fish early. Some wait for up to 6 months. Depends entirely on how you set up your tank and what you wish to put your fish though.
-Some use bottle bacteria and add fish directly. Can work, but pay attention to ammonia so that you water change when needed. I don't think this is the best, though. I didnt come accross any fishless cycling happening in the videos. Fishless is just adding bottled bacteria + ammonia drops (Dr. Tim's) or tossing in a cocktail shrimp and leaving it. But in this forum I see the topic very similar to freshwater cycling. Adding bottled bacteria and fish directly would result in ammonia and nitrite problems and force you to do fish in cycle, no? That's confusing. Nitrite is not toxic to saltwater fish, neither is nitrate in the amounts generally produced in the tank. Ammonia is, but the bottled bacteria should be activating and processing the ammonia right off the bat--I'm not sure it actually does it that quickly, hence the use of "cycling fish" that are more robust or (sadly) cheaper/expendable. There has been some testing by individuals here on how fast the different bottled bacs "insta-cycle" if you dig deep enough. But there's a way around this, too.
-Some use filters, powerhead and protein skimmer. Ive seen such beautiful tanks with no skimmer and filter but only powerhead, corals and liverocks. Lots of different ways to run a tank.

anyway, my questions are as follows:

* I'm planning to use a 60x60x50cm high tank= 180 liters. Nice size cube.

Is filter needed? If so, Can I make this setup work with a HOB filter? Is the tank already bought? Or is this the dimensions you want? If the latter, there are different options like AIOs, pre-drilled tanks for use with sump or just the glass box that you can put a HOB on. I've noticed less enthusiasm for HOBs here, but I can't tell you if it's justified or not. I like AIOs for convenience and safety features.
Is protein skimmer needed? Depends entirely on your tank. I don't have one installed yet, but that's been a To-Do for months. I just want it for the oxygenation and maybe pulling out a bit of unseen/unknown stuff.
Is powerhead needed in such setup considering its more cubic. Would using something that would over my tank capacity, like AC70 for example, would make using powerhead unneccesary? Flow is very important. I wish there was a simple chart that says exactly what you need for each type of tank/dimensions, but I've seen it mostly as trial and error. So much to consider, like placement, flow needs for corals/nems, prevention of dead spots, etc. a gyre in a cube mounted vertically can give a good all around the tank flow, and there are a lot of other types of wavemakers like the Neros and Ecotechs (cha-ching) that have great reviews.
How long should one wait to add corals? Great question. Depends. I comment above on stability. Also entirely depends on your setup/approach. Tolerant corals like softies can be added very early with good chance of survival. If you are meticulous in testing and keeping parameters in check. you can go right into easy LPS. Anemones like BTAs tend to like mature systems, so they are good to wait, but you can add easy nems like RFAs relatively early on.
I have RO water. Do you guys buffer your water by adding something, or let the rocks and substrate do its thingy? Most everyone here recommends adding a deionization filter to make RODI for use in topping up your evaporated water and for mixing salt. The salt mixes prepare at prespecified alkalinity/element concentration. When you get lots of corals consuming lots of nutrients and elements, then you will need to begin dosing and adjusting amounts of what goes in. Rocks and substrate are going to play their part but you'll basically need to go the route of testing to ensure water parameter stability.
Is there anything different in fishless cycling other than making sure to use saltwater bottled bacteria? Make sure to add a source of ammonia to let the bacteria establish and grow, and test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Sadly it is long. Many thanks in advance for your help. Please feel free to recommend anything to read and watch. I would appreciate that

My biggest recommendation is consider the upfront investiment of buying established live rock or (better yet) rocks directly from the ocean like Tampa Bay Saltwater, KP Aquatics, Gulf Live Rock, etc. You basically don't have to lose any more sleep on cycling the tank because the tank you set up will be already running a full mature cycle, especially if you get the gulf sand to go with it. You also get the immediate benefits of tank maturity, some resistance to nuisance algae, interesting sea critters, and a bunch of other benefits that are hard to quantify. Done the right way, you could have a tank full of corals, anemones, fish, inverts and macroalgae in a week with everything humming along. Two weeks if you want to be extra careful and monitor the rocks for pest removal (e.g. gorilla crabs, mantis shrimps, isopods, etc.).

Welcome! Comments above in RED. Here's a pic of my tank. No skimmer (yet), just running filter floss pads in media baskets + carbon and some Phosguard. Rocks are 1/3rd gulf live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater, 2/3rd old previously live reef rocks from Fiji and Marshall Islands that were dried and sitting in someone's garage for 5 years--most assuredly superior to currently marketed "dry rock". Exciting times, wish you as much success with saltwater as you obviously have with freshwater!

 

[Lennie]

Okay. Wow

I read all these comments in shock. All these answers given in detail in such short time. You guys are wild. Thanks for the kind welcome

I will try my best to respond a few questions directed to me or explain myself better:

BRS 5 minute saltwater aquarium guide has some good videos that might answer a lot of your questions.

I will surely check this one out. Thanks!

All this info is available online with a simple Google search. Salt is much more complicated then freshwater especially if you intend to add corals. Cycling can take a week or two with quick start like Dr. Tims. Fish can be added slowly after cycle has started. I waited 4 months to turn my lights on and add coral. This allows the tank to develop biodiversity and microfauna first and makes the various ugly stages over the first year manageable. Powerheads are needed. Skimmer is needed but optional. Flow is critical in a reef tank like the ocean. Lights are essential and maintaining correct parameters with weekly water changes.

You are right about the googling part! However, it is very common to come across wrong info online if I gotta be honest. As I mentioned, I know 2 peeps IRL and watched multiple basic saltwater/reef tank setup videos. And the info I come across were not matching. So I was like, well it is time to join reef2reef family and ask there I suppose. Even the answers here show people have their own way to reach success!

Saltwater tanks can be much more expensive. Besides their costs, I would worry about hurting corals and fish by making a mistake. So I wanted to play safe by asking here tbf.

Thank you for your response! Everyone seem to mention the flow in the messages. I suppose we dont exactly have fish that are suitable for calmer tanks here. Usually, some fish may prefer more stagnant water in the freshwater, maybe you know. And high flow can be a stress factor and even fish that likes and wants high flow is usually connected to high oxygen content liking but they may need some low flow spaces to chill from time to time. I assume fish and others overall don't mind the such high flow in saltwater setups?

Looks like your off to a good start. IMO, rocks and flow are the most important thing to consider when setting up the tank. It is the tank biofilter, more rock means stronger biofilter, and it provides hiding spaces for the animals and provides breeding space for micro organsims. Remember we are replicating the ocean, not a stream or pond, so flow is vital. I feel there can never be too much rock or flow. I run 2 tanks (1 fish only and 1 reef) with just rocks and flow, no other type of filtration except for weekly water changes. IMO, any tank 50 gallons and under and be maintained by water changes mainly. Google "the berlin filtration method", to me it is the religion of the hobby.

Since you very experienced, I would suggest to really research the types of mechanical and chemical filtration you want. It can be all HOB, unless you want to do a sump. Or neither.

A skimmer is beneficial especially if you want corals, but again, not at all necessary. However, one of its greatest "side" benefits is that it puts a lot of oxygen into the water.

This is a good guide:

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium

The Supreme Guide To Setting Up A Saltwater Reef Aquarium This article was sponsored by @MarineDepot at www.marinedepot.com. Introduction The marine environment is one of the most complex systems on the planet. The aquarium you are about to set up is only a tiny sliver of the vast ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

I have a space under my tank, but Im not willing to have a sump to be fair. I usually use HOBs and/or sponge filters in my freshwater tanks.

Normally in the freshwater, even tho majority of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter, they are found to be on the surfaces of the tank. However, in saltwater, liverocks are the main biofilter of the tank? So, the main purpose of a filter in saltwater tanks is mechanical and chemical filtration but not biological? Did I misunderstand?

Thank you for the guide!

One of the great and sometimes confusing things about the reefing hobby is there is a multitude of ways to be successful. The key is picking a method that fits your lifestyle and perhaps philosophies.

Nobody should actually be encouraging a new hobbyist to add corals early. That's simply setting someone up for potential failure and disappointment.

Adding fish is fine regardless of time frame as long as the tank is cycled. This can be via the traditional method over 4 weeks or using bottled starter bac and stocking almost immediately. Brand name bottled bac products like Bio-Spira and Fritzyme are proven effective cycle starters.

You can make the hobby as complicated or as simple as you'd like. From custom tanks with full automation and control or a Petco special with a HOB filter, they can all be successful.

Nitrite is not harmful in our marine environment. We don't worry about nitrite. Once we see ammonia is being processed, we are good to slowly stock fish. With our tanks, the live rock is the primary source of nitrifying bacteria. We essentially cycle the rock and once the rock is cycled we can transfer it to any vessel we want and be good to go provided it stays wet.

HOB filters are fine.

Skimmer is highly recommended but not absolutely necessary depending on livestock choices.

Powerhead/flow/surface agitation is always needed. The Aquaclear won't be enough flow.

At least 6 months on corals for a new hobbyist, in my opinion. If you are more prudent, then closer to the 1 year mark. You will commonly hear that many reefers tanks didn't start to really take off until after the first year.

Add a DI unit to the RO if you can. Your RO water TDS is hopefully less than 10 right now and you ideally want it at 0. A DI stage will accomplish this.

If you are cycling fishless you just need an ammonia source, that can be a pinch of fish food or a shrimp. If you use bottled bac, follow the directions and you can trust them. Add a fish when they say you can.

That is absolutely my thought already. Also in the freshwater hobby, people may follow different setups and techniques. That is no surprise there. But for example one can plant on day 1 easily. Even having no common understanding of adding corals on day one seemed a bit confusing to me

I am also looking for a new RO unit because the current one I have is pretty slow. It also reads around a tds of 23-24.

cycling part seems the same with freshwater, except not focusing on clearing the nitrite part then.
I have my all tanks planted as I currently have no fish that eats plants. I would like to have a tank that is cycled, has beneficial critters, some coral growth. Basically a home that fish would be happy to be in. I would add fish as the last thing. Cleanup crew and turning the tank into a living design would be nice. I don't mind waiting at all. This is a hobby of patience after all. I can read and learn more meanwhile

I won't specifically name some products but there are some well known ones that even suggest you can add fish in one day, which is basically impossible to have a cycled tank in such short term. I would play safe with my test kits and readings rather than directly following the product recommendations

thank you!

Welcome! Comments above in RED. Here's a pic of my tank. No skimmer (yet), just running filter floss pads in media baskets + carbon and some Phosguard. Rocks are 1/3rd gulf live rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater, 2/3rd old previously live reef rocks from Fiji and Marshall Islands that were dried and sitting in someone's garage for 5 years--most assuredly superior to currently marketed "dry rock". Exciting times, wish you as much success with saltwater as you obviously have with freshwater!

I always have my tanks custom made. This 60x60x50 tank was the tank of my discus pair. I've lost my male couple days ago. The female looks extremely bored all alone. So when I move her to one of my big community tanks the tank will be empty. I thought maybe I can use this tank. I can also consider having another shallow 110x40 made. I had one free on hand, I just set it up running couple weeks ago. Oops! :')

I've seen about people buying live rocks, but that seemed a lil risky to me. Isn't it risky to potentially spread diseases and unwanted harmful critters? Or am I thinking with too much freshwater mentality? I should look more into "pest"s here. Normally some people consider snails pests for example. I love them. As long as it does no harm I usually welcome critters in my tanks. I intentionally introduce critters from one tank to another. As long as there is fish to control their population, I think they bring life to the tank and has a role in the ecosystem

Your tank looks pretty. Clownfish enjoying beautiful corals, specifically anemones, is my current dream.
Thank you very much for your indepth explanations

 

[Stevorino]

Is filter needed? If so, Can I make this setup work with a HOB filter?
Is protein skimmer needed?

Personally, with a tank that size, I would setup an automated water change and do like 10-20% a week. This would allow you to skip most filtration for a while.

A HOB w/ Carbon Filter wouldn't hurt.

Is powerhead needed in such setup considering its more cubic. Would using something that would over my tank capacity, like AC70 for example, would make using powerhead unneccesary?

Yes. Powerhead is a must unless you have a STRONG recirculating pump.

An AC70 isn't enough IMO for the standard mixed reef tank.

How long should one wait to add corals?

This is entirely based on your budget and risk tolerance.

Odds are that you will have an 'ugly stage' early-on that will be difficult (but not impossible) to combat with corals in the tank.

I like putting some zoas and easy corals in early just because it's fun. I know there is a high risk I will lose them. As the tank stabilizes, I add more selective corals.

I have RO water. Do you guys buffer your water by adding something, or let the rocks and substrate do its thingy?

I've never used buffers in a saltwater setup.

Is there anything different in fishless cycling other than making sure to use saltwater bottled bacteria?

Nope, the underlying concept of harboring nitrifying bacteria is virtually the same.

Welcome!

 

[Cell]

Normally in the freshwater, even tho majority of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the filter, they are found to be on the surfaces of the tank. However, in saltwater, liverocks are the main biofilter of the tank? So, the main purpose of a filter in saltwater tanks is mechanical and chemical filtration but not biological? Did I misunderstand? Correct

I am also looking for a new RO unit because the current one I have is pretty slow. It also reads around a tds of 23-24. You may need to beef this up, you ideally want 0 TDS for reef tanks and 24 TDS is going to burn up your DI resin quickly.

cycling part seems the same with freshwater, except not focusing on clearing the nitrite part then.
I have my all tanks planted as I currently have no fish that eats plants. I would like to have a tank that is cycled, has beneficial critters, some coral growth. Basically a home that fish would be happy to be in. I would add fish as the last thing. Cleanup crew and turning the tank into a living design would be nice. I don't mind waiting at all. This is a hobby of patience after all. I can read and learn more meanwhile

I won't specifically name some products but there are some well known ones that even suggest you can add fish in one day, which is basically impossible to have a cycled tank in such short term. I would play safe with my test kits and readings rather than directly following the product recommendations You can wait as long as you feel the need, but Bio-Spira allows you to add a fish the next day and you will be fine. Several cycling products have been well vetted around here and proven to be safe and effective. Here is some not so light reading for you:

Not all Cycling Bacteria are created equal. Who's who, and what do they need?

My hypothesis is that there are very different types of Bacteria that are being used to "cycle" tanks to prevent ammonia accumulation, and it's not entirely clear which products contain which group, and it's also poorly understood what the requirements are for one of these groups to do their...

www.reef2reef.com

I've seen about people buying live rocks, but that seemed a lil risky to me. Isn't it risky to potentially spread diseases and unwanted harmful critters? Or am I thinking with too much freshwater mentality? I should look more into "pest"s here. Normally some people consider snails pests for example. I love them. As long as it does no harm I usually welcome critters in my tanks. I intentionally introduce critters from one tank to another. As long as there is fish to control their population, I think they bring life to the tank and has a role in the ecosystem When most talk about live rocks around here they are talking about rocks straight from the ocean sold by a couple well known vendors within the hobby. These will be pathogen free, but pests will often be present. The current feeling around the forum is that any drawback of pests is vastly outweighed by the benefits of live ocean rock and the biodiversity it introduces to your tank. Personally, I like mostly dry rock for the control, seeded with a small amount of live rock that can be easily stripped of any unwanted hitchhikers.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Good advice and links have already been posted... Take advantage of the sticky threads at the top of each sub-forum page; these have tons of good information.

What specifically do you want in your saltwater or reef tank? Once you decide on some "must haves", whether fish, inverts, or coral, you will be better able to plan for what equipment/lights you'll need, what water parameters are ideal, etc.

 

[JoJosReef]

If you are used to making custom tanks, perhaps consider adding a set of acrylic AIO chambers so that you can accomplish mechanical and chemical filtration and keep things nice and tidy (space for heater/probes, dosing if needed, floss/socks, return pump,, even a nano skimmer). Then you don't have a sump and can use the space below your tank for other equipment. There are some DIY AIO kits, but those are usually set up for standard Aqueon tanks, although the concept is the same for any tank.

Are you in the US or outside the US? If in the U.S. there are a few gulf live rock vendors that have excellent rocks. I think the risk of fish disease is very low. But there is risk of unwanted crabs, shrimp, stomatopods, worms and worst of all, cirolanid isopods. But that can usually be mitigated in ways that end up being easier than spending eternity in "the uglies". If you're on point with all of your husbrandry, the uglies can be no big deal, but if you flounder around a bit, it can be a bear.

We're all here to help. Happy to give advice!

 

[Lennie]

Good advice and links have already been posted... Take advantage of the sticky threads at the top of each sub-forum page; these have tons of good information.

What specifically do you want in your saltwater or reef tank? Once you decide on some "must haves", whether fish, inverts, or coral, you will be better able to plan for what equipment/lights you'll need, what water parameters are ideal, etc.

I mainly want clownfish I think. Easiest to source captive bred ones I believe? Other than that I would prefer to lean towards some other compatible tankbred/captivebred fish that would like such tank size and can be homed with clownfish. I would also like smaller species that would utilise the space better instead of forcing the limits of bare minimum usually. Thats my liking in general.

Normally most fish would like to have longer tanks instead, I believe this is valid for both freshwater and saltwater. So even tho 60x60x50 is a good size nano, it is not long enough for most species the swim back and forth I believe. I would like to prioritize whatever my fish would need to be happy. In clownfish case I think thats anemones?

 

[Lennie]

If you are used to making custom tanks, perhaps consider adding a set of acrylic AIO chambers so that you can accomplish mechanical and chemical filtration and keep things nice and tidy (space for heater/probes, dosing if needed, floss/socks, return pump,, even a nano skimmer). Then you don't have a sump and can use the space below your tank for other equipment. There are some DIY AIO kits, but those are usually set up for standard Aqueon tanks, although the concept is the same for any tank.

Are you in the US or outside the US? If in the U.S. there are a few gulf live rock vendors that have excellent rocks. I think the risk of fish disease is very low. But there is risk of unwanted crabs, shrimp, stomatopods, worms and worst of all, cirolanid isopods. But that can usually be mitigated in ways that end up being easier than spending eternity in "the uglies". If you're on point with all of your husbrandry, the uglies can be no big deal, but if you flounder around a bit, it can be a bear.

We're all here to help. Happy to give advice!

Im from Turkey/Türkiye. Actually, I don’t make them myself, but instead, have them made by a well known aquarium maker guy here. His shop is all around aquarium and stand making and he is very reputable. They cost much less this way and he guarantees his tank work at least 15 years. I have my 26 tanks made by him, and I have never seen a single problem till day. So yea, Im not the one custom making them myself sadly

Is this a better way to set it up or you recommend this sort of setup just for a cleaner look overall? I assume one of the reasons why people avoid HOBs is they dont find their look clean enough in saltwater tanks?

 

[Lavey29]

And remember medically QT fish before adding them or have your LFS do it especially clowns which are prone to disease.

 

[wlmalek]

Hey everyone,

I hope you are all doing well!

I have been keeping freshwater tanks for 15+years and currently have 26 tanks running. After all these years, I think I wanna add one saltwater (or reef? terms everywhere!) tank to my fishroom. (YES, only one, I have enough multiple tank syndrome going on)

I am already familiar with fishkeeping concept in general even though surely there are some differences between saltwater-freshwater tanks.

I have been watching and reading for a couple days, however, I have to mention I am super confused. Because every video I watch or every person I talk to IRL, says and recommends different stuff.

- Some suggest to add corals early. Some wait for months.
-Some add fish early. Some wait for up to 6 months.
-Some use bottle bacteria and add fish directly. I didnt come across cycling videos from the ones I watched, maybe its me. Normally running a freshwater tank for a couple week wouldnt make the tank cycled, there should be an ammonia source. I didnt come accross any fishless cycling happening in the videos. But in this forum I see the topic very similar to freshwater cycling.Adding bottled bacteria and fish directly would result in ammonia and nitrite problems and force you to do fish in cycle, no? That's confusing.
-Some use filters, powerhead and protein skimmer. Ive seen such beautiful tanks with no skimmer and filter but only powerhead, corals and liverocks.


If you ask me how I normally setup a freshwater tank:
Now:
Since I have many tanks now, I just can have my filters seeded in other tanks.
From zero:
I usually setup and scape the tank with plants on day one. Add something to create circulation in the tank if filter isn't in. Meanwhile, I cycle my filter either inside the tank, or another tub with ghost feeding, either by using bottled bacteria or squeezing established filter. Read ammonia nitrite, when they all clear out and I read only nitrate, so I slowly stock. At this point plants usually settle down and start growing. Never had problems this way.





anyway, my questions are as follows:

* I'm planning to use a 60x60x50cm high tank= 180 liters. I sadly lost my male discus from my pair, so I will move the female to the big community tank to make sure she does not feel lonely.

Is filter needed? If so, Can I make this setup work with a HOB filter?
Is protein skimmer needed?
Is powerhead needed in such setup considering its more cubic. Would using something that would over my tank capacity, like AC70 for example, would make using powerhead unneccesary?
How long should one wait to add corals?
I have RO water. Do you guys buffer your water by adding something, or let the rocks and substrate do its thingy?
Is there anything different in fishless cycling other than making sure to use saltwater bottled bacteria?



Sadly it is long. Many thanks in advance for your help. Please feel free to recommend anything to read and watch. I would appreciate that
Wish y'all a great week.
Lennie

P.s: What about having a freshwater fish pic as my avatar. Better than a huge L I guess
Cheers!

Firstly, Welcome to saltwater club
I don’t have anything to add on your questions after what other members have mentioned.

there is no right or wrong method everything will work if you know what are you doing.

Melevsreef has a cube tank almost like what you have that only running with air stone, heater and wave maker you can check it on his channel.

Dannys aquariums on youtube also has 3 reefs setup with only lights and wave makers.

for reef tank: wave maker and light are the only essential equipment you need everything else are optional to make your life easier.

BRS have 52 week building series that will give a good informations.

Start a Building thread and let us follow you.

 

[Lennie]

And remember medically QT fish before adding them or have your LFS do it especially clowns which are prone to disease.

Thanks for the reminder. I have a 50x40x25 tank that I normally use as my freshwater fish quarantine. I also have a 75 liter free tub on hand. However I always have cycled sponges on hand so I can instantly set up a quarantine and dont expose fish to ammonia and nitrite when it comes to freshwater qt.

People above mentioned nitrite is not an issue here but ammonia still is. Also liverocks seem to be the most important biofilter and flow is a must. I should look further on this one because setting up a tank with these only for quarantine seems… a bit expensive? Or how else do you guys handle to ammonia exposure in qt tanks? Big daily water changes?


Normally I use cycled sponge filter and keep my qt tank bare. I am more of an observational quarantine guy. I inspect their behavior, eating, activity level, their body and potential symptoms and poops on the floor. If I notice anything within this 30 days I start a specific treatment for the specific issue. I am usually not a fan of using a lot of medication at once. When I get sick, I go and take the specific medicine for the specific sickness, otherwise it feels like taking one from every medicine at home for common problems by thinking what if I would get sick one day or what if I am potentially sick right now. You hear me?

In case I setup a qt tank for saltwater, would observational qt for 30 days be fine?

Firstly, Welcome to saltwater club
I don’t have anything to add on your questions after what other members have mentioned.

there is no right or wrong method everything will work if you know what are you doing.

Melevsreef has a cube tank almost like what you have that only running with air stone, heater and wave maker you can check it on his channel.

Dannys aquariums on youtube also has 3 reefs setup with only lights and wave makers.

for reef tank: wave maker and light are the only essential equipment you need everything else are optional to make your life easier.

BRS have 52 week building series that will give a good informations.

Start a Building thread and let us follow you.

Hello!

Many thanks for the warm welcome. I will check everything you suggested

The thread should wait for a lil. It is still a freshwater tank! lt will be an exciting project

Cheers

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks for the reminder. I have a 50x40x25 tank that I normally use as my freshwater fish quarantine. I also have a 75 liter free tub on hand. However I always have cycled sponges on hand so I can instantly set up a quarantine and dont expose fish to ammonia and nitrite when it comes to freshwater qt.

People above mentioned nitrite is not an issue here but ammonia still is. Also liverocks seem to be the most important biofilter and flow is a must. I should look further on this one because setting up a tank with these only for quarantine seems… a bit expensive? Or how else do you guys handle to ammonia exposure in qt tanks? Big daily water changes?


Normally I use cycled sponge filter and keep my qt tank bare. I am more of an observational quarantine guy. I inspect their behavior, eating, activity level, their body and potential symptoms and poops on the floor. If I notice anything within this 30 days I start a specific treatment for the specific issue. I am usually not a fan of using a lot of medication at once. When I get sick, I go and take the specific medicine for the specific sickness, otherwise it feels like taking one from every medicine at home for common problems by thinking what if I would get sick one day or what if I am potentially sick right now. You hear me?

In case I setup a qt tank for saltwater, would observational qt for 30 days be fine?





Hello!

Many thanks for the warm welcome. I will check everything you suggested

The thread should wait for a lil. It is still a freshwater tank! lt will be an exciting project

Cheers

Nitrite is irrelevant in salt tanks and not necessary to test for it. Ammonia and nitrates are all you test for when starting the tank. After that you need to test other parameters weekly such as phosphate. Monthly check calcium and magnesium...etc... make sure you get good test kits like Hanna.

 

[aquaman67]

I literally read forums for a year before I started my own marine tank.

You are correct. Everyone has their own opinion.

And you’re going to have to make up your own mind about what you think will work for you.

I guarantee that two people could set up identical tanks and one would be successful and the other a failure.

Why?

No one knows.

It’s great to research first. But in the end you have to do what you think makes the most sense.

Some things will work out. Some may not. Either way, don’t give up and keep going.

Success breeds confidence.

Good luck.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

That moment will come, when you realise that salt and fresh have only glass and water and in common, and not much else lol. Many of us have been there.

and when the salt gets in your blood, many of those FW tanks will slowly transform into salt tanks lol