ICP Testing and Zoas dying

[kdtorgy]

I have two questions concerning water parameters.

1. I would like to have my reef tank water ICP tested. I'm colorblind so the regular colorimetric testing kits don't work for me. I've been using the API AquaSpin testing spectrometer but would like to have my water tested to 1) make sure the AquaSpin results are accurate and 2) to test for other parameters. Looks like ATI has the best coverage. Any suggestions?

2. Part of this reason is that for some reason, I cannot get zoas to grow. I've tried several times and they all die within a few weeks. My tank has several fish, shrimp, crabs, snail and two RTBAs. Corals are: 2 frogspawn, several Kenya trees, gorgonia, green star polyps, mushroom corals and leather corals. All corals, inverts and fish are doing fine but can't grow zoas. I'm wondering if there's something else in the water ICP testing might pick up? I am on well water but have been running a RODI system with a particulate filter, carbon filter and DI filter. Here are my water parameters:

Salinity: 1.025
Alk: 10.0 - 11.0
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrate: 40-60
Nitrite: 0.0
Phosphate: 0 - 0.4
Calcium: 380
Magnesium 1150
pH: 8.0

I know my calcium and magnesium are a bit low. I've recently switched to Meersalz Pro to help bump up the calcium and magnesium, but I don't see why those low parameters would be affecting zoas. Any ideas why the zoas are not living?

Kurt

 

[Jekyl]

The low nitrate is what caught my eye. Lack of nutrients for the coral.

 

[czoolander]

0-0.4 is a big variance on phosphate do you mean 0-0.04 maybe ?

Zoanthids are pretty much bullet proof in my experience they have survived all kinds of swings and algea outbreaks in my tank .

Do you have any angelfish that might be eating the zoas or picking at them ? Maybe another pest ?

Your peramiters seem ok to me but im not an expert. Maybe they are getting too much light ? Do you have them low in your water column?

 

[Clown2020]

+1 for lighting, way too much or way too little and they just won’t open.

on that note do yours open at all?

 

[kdtorgy]

0-0.4 is a big variance on phosphate do you mean 0-0.04 maybe ?

Zoanthids are pretty much bullet proof in my experience they have survived all kinds of swings and algea outbreaks in my tank .

Do you have any angelfish that might be eating the zoas or picking at them ? Maybe another pest ?

Your peramiters seem ok to me but im not an expert. Maybe they are getting too much light ? Do you have them low in your water column?

The Aquaspin doesn't measure to 1/100 only 1/10.
I have a flame angelfish but I've never seen it picking at the Zoas.

 

[kdtorgy]

+1 for lighting, way too much or way too little and they just won’t open.

on that note do yours open at all?

They opened at first but have closed over time. I put them in the middle of the tank with no luck. I've heard Zoas are pretty bomb proof but this is the 3rd or 4th colony that has died.

 

[kdtorgy]

The low nitrate is what caught my eye. Lack of nutrients for the coral.

Oops, typo. Nitrate is usually 40-60

 

[Jekyl]

Oops, typo. Nitrate is usually 40-60

That is still an issue but probably not the direct one. Shooting for below 20 and ideally 5-10.

 

[shakacuz]

i understand the hannah checkers utilize colors, and that is what you're trying to avoid - but they give you a digital reading, rather than you having to check for color to match the number. perhaps you can invest in these (second hand, if you'd like to save money)

otherwise, do your zoa's open? could be a lighting issue causing them to melt/die. either that, or a pest that's eating them? check for zoa pox, Z.E.S(zoa eating spiders), Z.E.N (zoa eating nudibranchs)

 

[Clown2020]

Based on them opening and closing over time, I would now be suspecting pest.

 

[czoolander]

I am thinking the following

Suspect #1 your flame angelfish ( some people have luck and some do not) but these fish are known to eat and nip at zoathings and other soft corals . They are considered ** reef safe with caution **

If your zoanthids aer closed do they look like anything is eating them or bothering them underneath?

I am also colour deficient not blind as I see colour but I do not pass a test with the numbers in the circles haha But yeah I had the same issue testing water that you have. I switched all my testing to Hanna digital and im only missing magnesium which im not sure why they don't have one........anyway im rambling again


Hope we can solve your problem for you as zoanthids could be the canary in the cole mine if zoathinds are having issues you might have a big problem in the tank that needs addressing ...

 

[kdtorgy]

That is still an issue but probably not the direct one. Shooting for below 20 and ideally 5-10.

Nitrate levels got away from me. Have been doing more water changes and slowly bringing them down. I'm also dosing with Instant Ocean nitrate reducer to help bring the levels down

 

[Jekyl]

Nitrate levels got away from me. Have been doing more water changes and slowly bringing them down. I'm also dosing with Instant Ocean nitrate reducer to help bring the levels down

Not familiar with the product but probably isn't necessary and could even cause issues depending on what it actually is. Just get nutrients in order by doing some 30% water changes twice a week until where you want them to be.

 

[JNalley]

The low nitrate is what caught my eye. Lack of nutrients for the coral.

40-60ppm is low Nitrate? I'm running 15-20ppm... 40-60 is crazy high imo

Edit: I should have finished reading... sorry :-D

 

[JNalley]

You mention Crabs... Emeralds (all 3 of the last ones I've had) in particular like to mess with my Zoas and my Firework Clove Polyps, they aren't even eating them either... just snipping the polyps off the rock so they roll around on the substrate... insane... wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't watched it happen right in front of my eyes... all 3 of them... I won't have another Emerald Crab ever again.

 

[Uncle99]

Nitrate is way high, phosphate is way high, MG is way low, CA is too low.
High nutrient levels like those posted can definitely lead to poor growth.
You need to slowly work that nitrate down, maybe carbon dose, Same with phosphate, use GFO.
I would expect nitrates in the 5-15ppm range, phosphate in the 0.05-.1ppm range, MG 1350-1400ppm and CA in the 420 range as your Alk is running on the higher end.

 

[Brucealmighty]

Don't forget the nudibranchs are disguised by being the colour of the zoanthids they are consuming, I had some zoanthids not opening then I saw the culprit a moving zoanthid green dragon eye coloured

 

[ZoWhat]

For your eyes, get Hanna Checkers. I find them to be +/- 3% of ICP tests.

For zoas, yeah too much no3 irritating them. I dose vodka and maintain no3 at 10. You'll see a world of difference.


.

 

[kdtorgy]

I am thinking the following

Suspect #1 your flame angelfish ( some people have luck and some do not) but these fish are known to eat and nip at zoathings and other soft corals . They are considered ** reef safe with caution **

If your zoanthids aer closed do they look like anything is eating them or bothering them underneath?

I am also colour deficient not blind as I see colour but I do not pass a test with the numbers in the circles haha But yeah I had the same issue testing water that you have. I switched all my testing to Hanna digital and im only missing magnesium which im not sure why they don't have one........anyway im rambling again


Hope we can solve your problem for you as zoanthids could be the canary in the cole mine if zoathinds are having issues you might have a big problem in the tank that needs addressing ...

Other people have suggested the flame angelfish may be the problem. I've never seen it nipping at the zoanthids, but I don't watch it 24/7 so maybe I'm missing it. Can't see anything else eating them and they looked fine for a while (aside from not being open). They were open when I first got them and have steadily closed over time.

I thought of doing all the tests with Hanna testers but with so many parameters and only 1 test at a time it would take too long (three kids in hockey) so I got the Aqua spin. All the other corals and fish are doing fine and have been for a long time so I don't think there's a serious water issue but will keep an eye on it.

 

[kdtorgy]

Nitrate is way high, phosphate is way high, MG is way low, CA is too low.
High nutrient levels like those posted can definitely lead to poor growth.
You need to slowly work that nitrate down, maybe carbon dose, Same with phosphate, use GFO.
I would expect nitrates in the 5-15ppm range, phosphate in the 0.05-.1ppm range, MG 1350-1400ppm and CA in the 420 range as your Alk is running on the higher end.

Thanks for the feedback. I switched salt sources to Meersalz to knock down alkalinity and bring calcium and magnesium up. I'm also using GFO and carbon dosing to bring phosphate and nitrate down. All the parameters are moving in the right direction but I'm trying to change slowly instead of massive changes. Other than the Zoas not doing well, all the other corals/inverts/fish are doing fine. Hoping that when the parameters are in a good range I can try Zoas again.