ICP Test Results

[ChrisIC]

Hello guys. I need a bit of guidance on what to do after an ICP test. The results show that the levels are low or zero for several elements and too high for a few.

Sulphur - 818mg/l (should be 850-950mg/l)
Lithium - 143ug/l (should be 160-200ug/l)
Iodine - 20ug/l (should be 50-80ug/l)
Nickel - 0
Vanadium -0
Cobalt -0
Chromium - 0

Molybdenum - 19 ug/l (should be 8-12 ug/l)
Iron - 5ug/l (should be 0.1-1ug/l)
Barium - 100 ug/l (should be 5-20ug/l)

They recommended a series of water changes to reduce the excess elements, but I'm wondering about how best to increase the low/missing elements. Is it better to dose them individually, or is a complete supplement like KZ Trace Element Complex a better way to go? I'm using ATI essentials at the moment. The reason I got the ICP is because I've lost all of my acans and favias since switching over to the essentials pro, and I figured something was off.
Thanks, Chris.

 

[Reefanonymous]

can anyone please help me translate these test results into what I need to do to my tank lol thank you (please note this sample was waiting to be picked up on door step for about 8 hours idk if this throws results off at all) thank you

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sure. I definitely do not recommend blindly following ICP company recommendations. What company is this from? Not all are equally reliable.

The aluminum seems quite high. I'd be concerned and I'd look for sources, such as white media (marinepure spheres, phosguard, etc.).

Lithium has no known biological role in any known organisms and I do not recommend ever dosing it unless the purpose is experimental to see if anything happens.

Don't go crazy on something that is almost certainly fine but if just outside someone's recommended range (e.g., your molybdenum).

Potassium is low and I'd raise it.

You might (or might not) benefit from dosing a trace element mix or individual trace elements on some (e.g., vanadium).

I'd suggest reading these two articles:

Randy's thoughts on trace elements

Randy's thoughts on trace elements in reef aquaria.

www.reef2reef.com

Randy's Elements to Dose

In a previous article I discussed my thoughts on trace elements https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randys-thoughts-on-trace-elements.951/ This article expands on that discussion by providing specific guidance for all elements one might dose. First...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The barium does not concern me.

 

[Reefanonymous]

Sure. I definitely do not recommend blindly following ICP company recommendations. What company is this from? Not all are equally reliable.

The aluminum seems quite high. I'd be concerned and I'd look for sources, such as white media (marinepure spheres, phosguard, etc.).

Lithium has no known biological role in any known organisms and I do not recommend ever dosing it unless the purpose is experimental to see if anything happens.

Don't go crazy on something that is almost certainly fine but if just outside someone's recommended range (e.g., your molybdenum).

Potassium is low and I'd raise it.

You might (or might not) benefit from dosing a trace element mix or individual trace elements on some (e.g., vanadium).

I'd suggest reading these two articles:

Randy's thoughts on trace elements

Randy's thoughts on trace elements in reef aquaria.

www.reef2reef.com

Randy's Elements to Dose

In a previous article I discussed my thoughts on trace elements https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randys-thoughts-on-trace-elements.951/ This article expands on that discussion by providing specific guidance for all elements one might dose. First...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you. I fixed the potassium added some trace elements. How would you recommend I go about lowering aluminum and silicate and could the bio media in my fluval filter be the culprit for the aluminum?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you. I fixed the potassium added some trace elements. How would you recommend I go about lowering aluminum and silicate and could the bio media in my fluval filter be the culprit for the aluminum?

What is the media exactly?

 

[Reefahholic]

I don’t even need to look at the test. 100% OES. One day people will figure this out.

Nickel - 0
Vanadium -0
Cobalt -0
Chromium - 0

 

[ChrisIC]

I don’t even need to look at the test. 100% OES. One day people will figure this out.

I do know what OES means?

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm wondering about how best to increase the low/missing elements. Is it better to dose them individually, or is a complete supplement like KZ Trace Element Complex a better way to go?

Individually. It’s difficult to control the elements otherwise. When you put multiple elements into one bottle, you just lost control. Each element is consumed at different rate depending on multiple variables.

 

[ChrisIC]

Individually. It’s difficult to control the elements otherwise. When you put multiple elements into one bottle, you just lost control. Each element is consumed at different rate depending on multiple variables.

Thanks for the reply, I figured that was the way to go. I was kind of hoping for an easier fix in a single bottle, lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Individually. It’s difficult to control the elements otherwise. When you put multiple elements into one bottle, you just lost control. Each element is consumed at different rate depending on multiple variables.

But that assumes that there's a magic number to hit, rather than a wide range. A mix can hit a range.

 

[Reefahholic]

I do know what OES means?

Most trace elements with targets under 1 ug/L are useless on OES regardless of what they tell you, what’s listed on their graph ranges, or what they have listed on their websites. There’s only a few that have better sensitivity, but they’re so close to the LLOD and not trustworthy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ICP-OES (or ICP AES) and ICP-MS are different types of ICP machines.

ICP-OES detects elements by light emission when they are in the very hot plasma, with the wavelength being dependent on the element.

Sometimes ICP-OES emissions can be weak or overlap more intense emissions, and need to be sorted out.

ICP-MS detects elements in the plasma by the charge to mass ratio. Sometimes these ratios can overlap since there are many isotopes of different elements involved, and those overlaps need to be sorted out.

Overall, ICP-MS can often do a better job for very low concentration elements.

 

[Reefahholic]

But that assumes that there's a magic number to hit, rather than a wide range. A mix can hit a range.

For sure there is a very wide range. Most corals are able to adapt to both ends. If you look at toxicity levels for all these elements they’re much higher than what’s recommended by every lab. I don’t believe anybody knows the perfect range for any element. I feel confident about where I keep all my values because I’ve been playing with it for several years now, and have seen my corals at many different ranges. We continue to tweak as we learn new information and have a deeper understanding. You start to notice different things after a while. I’ve observed (across many different systems) that is better to get most of the core elements in there and keep them from becoming completely depleted. For example…it’s better not to have iron at .002. It’s much better at 0.7+, but people will try to argue stuff like that forever. Opinions vary…and that is my opinion.

 

[Reefahholic]

ICP-OES (or ICP AES) and ICP-MS are different types of ICP machines.

ICP-OES detects elements by light emission when they are in the very hot plasma, with the wavelength being dependent on the element.

Sometimes ICP-OES emissions can be weak or overlap more intense emissions, and need to be sorted out.

ICP-MS detects elements in the plasma by the charge to mass ratio. Sometimes these ratios can overlap since there are many isotopes of different elements involved, and those overlaps need to be sorted out.

Overall, ICP-MS can often do a better job for very low concentration elements.

For example…”in most cases” you can take one look at these numbers, and know which ICP machine was used. It’s always the same no matter which company. Only a few of those elements with targets under 1 ug/L will pop up because they have better sensitivity, but most of the time it’s noise and the data isn’t accurate enough. Notice how conveniently the “setpoints” were set to zero. Don’t be alarmed, everything is fine!!

 

[Reefahholic]

But that assumes that there's a magic number to hit, rather than a wide range. A mix can hit a range.

A lot of the data we have is from open ocean at different depths which sucks. We need more data on coral reefs where the corals are actually growing and thriving. That leads to the second issue. Which ocean do we accept as the normal range for natural seawater, because most of the trace elements vary widely across the globe.

That’s not even taking into account all the different natural phenomena that exist. What happens when it rains in the mountains and all that water is funneled down to the river below which then dumps straight into the reef at the base of the mountains. The salinity, trace elements, etc…all gets diluted and changes.

So yeah…I believe this is why corals can adapt so well to many different conditions in our tanks, and why you see success across the board regardless if the reefer is dosing trace elements or not. I just don’t believe that success is obtained at the same rate if you took two different pros (equal ability), and let them setup two new systems (same rock, sand, etc.). I believe that the pro keeping the chemistry in check using quality ICP data will get from A to B much faster than the other guy.

 

[Reefahholic]

Let’s take your favorite element for example:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A lot of the data we have is from open ocean at different depths which sucks. We need more data on coral reefs where the corals are actually growing and thriving. That leads to the second issue. Which ocean do we accept as the normal range for natural seawater, because most of the trace elements vary widely across the globe.

That’s not even taking into account all the different natural phenomena that exist. What happens when it rains in the mountains and all that water is funneled down to the river below which then dumps straight into the reef at the base of the mountains. The salinity, trace elements, etc…all gets diluted and changes.

So yeah…I believe this is why corals can adapt so well to many different conditions in our tanks, and why you see success across the board regardless if the reefer is dosing trace elements or not. I just don’t believe that success is obtained at the same rate if you took two different pros (equal ability), and let them setup two new systems (same rock, sand, etc.). I believe that the pro keeping the chemistry in check using quality ICP data will get from A to B much faster than the other guy.

I don't disagree. That's one of the limitations of trying to hit NSW as a target.

 

[ChrisIC]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it a lot! (Even if some of it is way over my head!) I'm going to dose the elements they recommended and see how things go with the tank. I hope I'll be able to reintroduce some acans and favia back into the tank in the future.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All of them? You are unlikely to cause a problem doing so, but some are, IMO, just a waste of money and effort. Lithium, for example.