ICH in 200G DT - Planning to Fallow for 80 days - questions...

[Dukereefnz]

ICH in 200G DT - Planning to Fallow for 80 days - questions... I have Copper Power and Hanna Tester arriving soon

1) What size QT tanks for 4 tangs and a Jap Swallow tail (5 fish) - all about 3-5 inches.... looking at 230l or 50Gallon tank ok? 1200 x 450 x 450mm - going wide and narrow for swimming space.
Should I go bigger?

Could this QT tanks have a simple sump and a skimmer?
Planning to have a IBC - 1000l tank outside my office window with salt water in it for quick water changes.

2) Mandarins and wrasses - I have 2 mandarins and 4 wrasses - smaller tank - half dose of copper power ok? or TTM only? Advice welcomed.
Sand for wrasses? any advice?

3) 2 x Clowns.. ok in with the wrasses etc? or a 3rd separate tank?

4) 2 x PJ cardinal- go with the clowns?

5) 1 x Sand sifting goby - in with the wrasses?

Please all help appreciated only want to do this once...

I will be setting up the tank in my office away from the DT...
I am thinking 3 tanks

1 - 3 x Tangs & 1 x Japanese swallowtail
1 - 2 x Clowns, 2 x Cardinals, 1 x Sand Sifting Goby
1 - 2 x mandarins, 4 x Wrasses with a container of sand

Help help help ... thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

ICH in 200G DT - Planning to Fallow for 80 days - questions... I have Copper Power and Hanna Tester arriving soon

1) What size QT tanks for 4 tangs and a Jap Swallow tail (5 fish) - all about 3-5 inches.... looking at 230l or 50Gallon tank ok? 1200 x 450 x 450mm - going wide and narrow for swimming space.
Should I go bigger?

Could this QT tanks have a simple sump and a skimmer?
Planning to have a IBC - 1000l tank outside my office window with salt water in it for quick water changes.

2) Mandarins and wrasses - I have 2 mandarins and 4 wrasses - smaller tank - half dose of copper power ok? or TTM only? Advice welcomed.
Sand for wrasses? any advice?

3) 2 x Clowns.. ok in with the wrasses etc? or a 3rd separate tank?

4) 2 x PJ cardinal- go with the clowns?

5) 1 x Sand sifting goby - in with the wrasses?

Please all help appreciated only want to do this once...

I will be setting up the tank in my office away from the DT...
I am thinking 3 tanks

1 - 3 x Tangs & 1 x Japanese swallowtail
1 - 2 x Clowns, 2 x Cardinals, 1 x Sand Sifting Goby
1 - 2 x mandarins, 4 x Wrasses with a container of sand

Help help help ... thanks

50 gallon or 55g sufficient
You can place the fish together but provide a deep sald bowl with sand for the wrasses for sure and even the goby. If you have separate tanks to use, by all means utilize them. Mandarins best by themselves and use general cure or ruby rally pro in lieu of copper if you can find it as they do NOT handle copper well
The fallow period is 45-60 days but 80 is up to you and of no harm and an assurance disease is not an potential issue again.
For copper- use Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. If wrasses are within tank, use treatment level 2.0-2.25.
Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone for each treatment tank.

 

[Dukereefnz]

So - just to confirm....

2 tanks

1 x 50G / 230l- all fish together except mandarins - they can go in smaller tank.
1 x 14G / 54l - 2 x mandarins with Medic?

I have Medic coming, can I use this with the mandarins?
The fallow period is 45-60 days.... sounds good. what is recommended, i have read 76 days, 90 days, and now 45 - 60 days....

Water changes... how do these work?
Do you change the water and add copper to lift the level back to 2.25?

Sump / Skimmer in QT tank .... can this work or not advisable?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

ICH in 200G DT - Planning to Fallow for 80 days - questions... I have Copper Power and Hanna Tester arriving soon

1) What size QT tanks for 4 tangs and a Jap Swallow tail (5 fish) - all about 3-5 inches.... looking at 230l or 50Gallon tank ok? 1200 x 450 x 450mm - going wide and narrow for swimming space.
Should I go bigger?

Could this QT tanks have a simple sump and a skimmer?
Planning to have a IBC - 1000l tank outside my office window with salt water in it for quick water changes.

2) Mandarins and wrasses - I have 2 mandarins and 4 wrasses - smaller tank - half dose of copper power ok? or TTM only? Advice welcomed.
Sand for wrasses? any advice?

3) 2 x Clowns.. ok in with the wrasses etc? or a 3rd separate tank?

4) 2 x PJ cardinal- go with the clowns?

5) 1 x Sand sifting goby - in with the wrasses?

Please all help appreciated only want to do this once...

I will be setting up the tank in my office away from the DT...
I am thinking 3 tanks

1 - 3 x Tangs & 1 x Japanese swallowtail
1 - 2 x Clowns, 2 x Cardinals, 1 x Sand Sifting Goby
1 - 2 x mandarins, 4 x Wrasses with a container of sand

Help help help ... thanks

Skip the half dose copper power, it is too mild to be effective. The wrasses are fine in full copper power, the trouble with mandarins is more about getting them enough to eat during the quarantine.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

So - just to confirm....

2 tanks

1 x 50G / 230l- all fish together except mandarins - they can go in smaller tank.
1 x 14G / 54l - 2 x mandarins with Medic?

I have Medic coming, can I use this with the mandarins?
The fallow period is 45-60 days.... sounds good. what is recommended, i have read 76 days, 90 days, and now 45 - 60 days....

Water changes... how do these work?
Do you change the water and add copper to lift the level back to 2.25?

Sump / Skimmer in QT tank .... can this work or not advisable?

Medic wont do much If anything for them as it is basically peroxide salts. Best to leave them in display with their food source and treat with ruby rally pro which is safe to use with inverts.
for water changes. . . lets say you are at 2.24. Create your new water and bring copper to 2.24 in your new water and add to QT tank.

 

[Dukereefnz]

What is the fastest way to cycle this 50G QT tank?

 

[Dukereefnz]

My tangs have Ich showing up again for the second time, they have been Ich free for 2 days.
Hippo Tang is starting to show lots of small lumps...

I pick up my 50G tank tomorrow and Hana copper tester... have copper power.
I will take water from my DT and transfer to my QT tank...

There will be NO time to cycle...

Need to purchase
- HOB filter
- 2 x heaters
- Ammonia Badge
- Air stone x 2
- Ammo lok and Prime ? Just in case?

Raise water copper level to 2.0 - 2.25 - have 4 wrasses to go in this tank as well as the tangs.
Add fish straight to this level?

Anything I am missing here for tomorrow?

Freaking out... going to take the day off work to pick up tank and get these fish in to copper...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My tangs have Ich showing up again for the second time, they have been Ich free for 2 days.
Hippo Tang is starting to show lots of small lumps...

I pick up my 50G tank tomorrow and Hana copper tester... have copper power.
I will take water from my DT and transfer to my QT tank...

There will be NO time to cycle...

Need to purchase
- HOB filter
- 2 x heaters
- Ammonia Badge
- Air stone x 2
- Ammo lok and Prime ? Just in case?

Raise water copper level to 2.0 - 2.25 - have 4 wrasses to go in this tank as well as the tangs.
Add fish straight to this level?

Anything I am missing here for tomorrow?

Freaking out... going to take the day off work to pick up tank and get these fish in to copper...

Do you have any filter media from the other tank that you can move over to help with the cycling? You can also add bacteria in a bottle products. I would choose Amquel over Prime.
Jay

 

[Dukereefnz]

Not filter media
Live rock or blocks - marine pure blocks ... but my thoughts these are no good

 

[Lavey29]

What about trying hyposalinity in lieu of setting up and moving everything if you don't have many corals?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not filter media
Live rock or blocks - marine pure blocks ... but my thoughts these are no good

Not live rock as most is calcium based and may bind with the copper. Are marine pure blocks made out of sintered glass or ceramic? That would be inert and would work.

Jay

 

[Dukereefnz]

My tank is 200G - lots of live rock and coals... I have 2 x Maxspect - ceramic ... could these be ok?

Maxspect Nano-Tech Bio-Block​

Maxspect’s Nano-Tech Bio-Blocks are a durrable dense arangement of small spheres creating an ultra-high surface area media which reduces the volume
of biomedia actually required for efficient nutrient cycling in both fresh and saltwater aquariums and ponds. This unique ceramic media has a cross-cutting
surface area that creates an ideal surface for a dense populations of beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrites from aquariums water.
Some systems may also notice a decrease in nitrates with prolong use. Suitable for sumps, reactors trickle filters, wet/dry filters, hang on the
back filters or directly in the tank.



Noticed the Brown tang trying to rub himself on the sand....
Is a fresh water dip worth doing before introducing to QT tank with copper at 2.0

Plan to have the tangs in this QT tank this afternoon.

Thanks Jay for your input, & everyone else also!!!

 

[Dukereefnz]

As the fish will be starting in a tank - not cycled this afternoon... i will have a HOB filter.. will the tank cycle like normal eventually? Can I add filter material from DT in a week? - most likely no... but just asking..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

As the fish will be starting in a tank - not cycled this afternoon... i will have a HOB filter.. will the tank cycle like normal eventually? Can I add filter material from DT in a week? - most likely no... but just asking..

You should add the seeded filter media at the same time as the fish.
If you don’t, the ammonia may spike in a day or so, and that can be a real nightmare to manage.
Just checking, there was another suggestion to try hyposalinity. If you don’t have a lot of corals,what about moving them to the new tank and running hypo in your display? That cuts down on the fallow time.
Jay

 

[Dukereefnz]

Well I have 3 tangs in my QT tank... 1 tang and and others to go... should take me 2-3 days to catch them all I expect.
is this a problem? I have bee feeding them from a bottle, the tangs could not get in to the bottle trap fast enough lol.

The wrasses will be harder to catch... 6 line...

How long can the Tangs stay in CP if it takes me 4-5 days to catch them all?

Copper Power @ 2.0
I have 4 x Wrasses..... can these go in to this tank at 2.0?
Or should I get another small tank and add these with some sand... then start lifting the level from 0 slowly up to 2.0?

If I do the separate tank - wrasse thing... I can lift the Tang CP to 2.25.

Will the sponge filters start to cycle in my QT tank? Or am I going to be doing water changes every day?
This is a 58G tank....

What about a small 5G water change every day?
Feels very sad upsetting the tangs so much, but my PB was starting to get skinny along his back.... I know this is the right thing to do.

Everyone is telling me not to do this, leave them alone... don't stress it will be fine.
You will cause more stress moving them.... relax man.... why... ICH will come back, waste of time.....

But I feel this is the right thing to do.. i will post pictures tomorrow.
Tonight I have 5G water ready to go at the correct salinity and 2.0 CP. - plan is to do this everyday if it sounds like a good idea.

Tank is covered and is dark - so everyone is chilled in the QT tank... it is lights out time.

To add - as I have not cycled the QT tank... I will be using Prime and Seed... with CP.
Sponge filters were only in DT for 24hrs.

CP - 2.0
Seed dosed - 30mls
Prime - 5ml - 1 cap per 200l / 50G - daily.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The faster you get all fish into full copper power (2.5) the better. How developed is the infection now? A few spots per fish gives how plenty of time, but at some point, the ich population goes into geometric progression and the fish get seriously sick very quickly.
Never ramp amine based copper up slowly, you need to dose accurately, but get there fast as it is slow to work and you need as much time as possible.
Full treatment is 30 days after the last ich spots were seen on the fish.
I prefer Amquel over Prime. The latter cannot be used with some copper products and nobody has fully tested it with copper power.
What test method do you have for the copper?
Jay

 

[Dukereefnz]

Jay - Hanna Copper HR. - I was trying to decide if waiting for QT tank to cycle with filter media was worth doing, but this meant leaving the Tangs in the DT .... how long would they last...

The only fish showing any symptoms are the Tangs at this stage... everyone is eating like pigs.

Powder Blue - light bumps etc on his side and is getting skinny in the back, his back bone by his tail is sticking out more each day.
Powder Brown - flashing on the sand, but looks Ok...
Hippo Tang - he is a big boy.... some spots on his sides, was acting weird this afternoon, twitching and stuff...
All had and have some small amount white spot on the fins.

They were all worse - but appear to have improved... I take it that is when Ich comes back with vengeance

still in DT

1 x sixline wrasse - 2 x Leopard wrasse - 1 x Ruby Head Wrasse
2 x clowns
2 x Cardinals
1 x sand sifting goby
1 x Japanese swallow tail

2 x mandarins - own tank - 15G - not sure what to with these.

I have read wrasses do not like going straight in to CP 2.5.. likely to kill them?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay - Hanna Copper HR. - I was trying to decide if waiting for QT tank to cycle with filter media was worth doing, but this meant leaving the Tangs in the DT .... how long would they last...

The only fish showing any symptoms are the Tangs at this stage... everyone is eating like pigs.

Powder Blue - light bumps etc on his side and is getting skinny in the back, his back bone by his tail is sticking out more each day.
Powder Brown - flashing on the sand, but looks Ok...
Hippo Tang - he is a big boy.... some spots on his sides, was acting weird this afternoon, twitching and stuff...
All had and have some small amount white spot on the fins.

They were all worse - but appear to have improved... I take it that is when Ich comes back with vengeance

still in DT

1 x sixline wrasse - 2 x Leopard wrasse - 1 x Ruby Head Wrasse
2 x clowns
2 x Cardinals
1 x sand sifting goby
1 x Japanese swallow tail

2 x mandarins - own tank - 15G - not sure what to with these.

I have read wrasses do not like going straight in to CP 2.5.. likely to kill them?

I’ve dosed wrasse many times in coppersafe with zero issues. Copper power is supposed to be the same formulation. Copper toxicity is all extrapolated from using ionic copper, not these amine-based products. The reason for not going full dose right away is one of accuracy - you don’t want to overshoot the mark.
Here is an all too common scenario: fish are sick with a protozoan disease. The person takes a few days to get everything set up in the QT and starts slowly ramping up the copper. The fish start dying and the person incorrectly assumes it is copper toxicity, so the slow it down, or even reduce the dose. More fish die and they say - “see, copper killed my fish”. Actually, it was the lack of a proper copper treatment that doomed the fish.

Jay

 

[Dukereefnz]

 

[Dukereefnz]