ICH!!!! I'm losing my cool with it

[Saltgator]

Hello all. I need imput before my rapid-running mind causes me to do the wrong thing (which may have already happened). My 3 tangs have ICH (1 black, 1 orange shoulder, 1 chevron). As far as I can tell so far(knocking on wood), my picassos haven't caught it (or not yet). All 3 tangs have been with for some time now and were all doing great up until I moved my 125 in my new 240. My fault for probaly rushing them into the new system. I believe my issue was in the water transfer from the 125 to 240 (some sand may have been stirred up pulling rocks out) and my nitrates crept up on me. The nitrates were easily handled, but now I'm getting uneasy to the thought of losing my tangs. All 3 tangs haven't started scratching, but the signs are there (breathing heavier than normal, careless at feeding times, oh.. and spots). Here's where I need assistant from my fellow reefers that have had my issues. All my food is enriched with garlic and all my readings are back to zero, or right there. Without stress in the tangs anymore than their already dealing with, i'm running outta time (in my mind). I haven't dealt with ich in such a long time that I'm worried sick about my tangs. I tried to catch the black tonight outta the DT, but he showed me what speed he has. So I gave up not risking more stress. I was intending on hypo or even FW dip then into QT, but no luck catching him or his partners. So.... what do you recommend? Reef safe meds, tearing down DT to catch them,....?

Also, yeah, I have learned my lesson on QTing my fish, so no worries, I'm starting now! I have been in this hobby too long to have not done this already. My bad!

 

[Brettinteriors]

This is my experience of many years and countless conversations with experienced local salty's. I am sure you will get a few opinions. If it is ich and not something else, and if it is not bad I recommend doing nothing. Don't make any changes, don't add weird crap, don't change your water chemistry quickly. Don't stress them out. Feed well. This is my opinion and has been my experience as well as the knowledgable lfs in my are plus many salty reefer friends. I have multiple tangs and from time to time I see a spot on them. It doesn't turn into an outbreak. Ie, I caught my powder brown and moved him for a day into another tank. I caught him again and movednhimback into my dt. A day later he broke out with some from the stress and was fine in a week. Qting a fish with ich often ends bad IMHO and loss of the fish happens. Ich is already in the tank so removing it won't matter.

 

[Saltgator]

Yeah moving it wasn't something I was looking forward too, but I'm lookin in best intrest of the fish. The tangs are (IMO) showing more than just a few spots. The spots seems to be appearing rapidly. I wouldn't mind leaving them in the DT and just feeding and keeping chemistry on par, but their feeding responce has halted. Just getting them better from the point of no feeding reponce would be great IMO, but that hasn't happened with flakes, pellets, mysis, live brine, and nori (not all at once, but over the course of 3 days and in tiny doses). I've had ich appear in years ago just kept an eye on it, but a strong feeding and good parimeters kept it at bay back then.

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

I would give it a few days they should pull out as long as parameters are up to par. If they don't pull out quarantines would be your next option I think. Maybe some meds.

 

[S@ltydog]

Everyone has an opinion... Here's mine...

If you are really concerned and want to treat there are a few things I recommend.

1. Hospital tank
While the picassos may not have it now the more visible spots means the ich is entering its waterborne stage... It's got a few days to find a new(or the same) host. Removing the tangs from the DT will lessen the likely hood of your other fish becoming infected. Also it will allow you to medicate freely. Also make sure it's bare bottom and no live rock. I'd recommend fake coral decorations for hiding

2. Methelyne Blue
This dip method removes external parasites from the fish prior to entry into the hospital tank. It's a quick 10 second dip that won't cause to much stress. I've never seen a fish wig out in it. Just follow the directions and you'll be fine (and so will the fishies)

3. Medication
If treating with copper I think the safest is cupramine. Over the course of a couple days you increase copper level to directed level and let em sit for 2-3 weeks. Be sure to get a copper test kit if you choose copper though. Remove uv sterilizer if used and also carbon.

4. Hyposalinity
If you chose this method you can take the salinity down to 1.008-1.009. Once again over a few days gradually lower the salinity. You can take a week to do this if you'd like or you can do it in as little a 3 days. It's up to you. Not any faster though. Marine ich cannot live in that low of salinity hence why it works. If you choose this method I also advise you to do the following.
-gradually lower salinity (monitor for signs of stress as we obviously don't want to add any)
-if signs of stress are shown at any time slow down the process
-check water parameters every few days and do water changes as needed
-try different foods to entice eating again
-if appetite is lost you can add products like garlic xtreme straight to the water. This gives their immune system a helping hand. They can go a week sometimes more with no food or sign of appetite.
-wait until the last spot is gone on ALL fish
-slowly raise salinity back to normal
-wait 1-2 weeks longer with salinity at normal levels to make sure the outbreak is over and their immune systems have beaten it.

I love tangs but hate how susceptible/prone they are to marine ich. They just flat out do not have a good immune system and will almost always be the first to get/spread ich. Stress obviously increases risk of infection in them.

I hope this helps.
Hang in there
Good luck

 

[robert]

Normally I'm strongly in favor of the wait it out approach - especially with a mild outbreak in an established tank - but if I understand correctly this is a new tank - at least partially filled with water from an established tank. Is that right? If so, I have to believe the fish brought the ich with them from the old tank and either the stress of the move or something in the new system has weakened their immune system.

If it's simply the stress of the move they should begin their recovery as they acclimate to the new surroundings. If they don't, then I might suspect something in the tank and I would move them to QT - let the DT run fallow long enough to break the cycle and flush out any contaminates that might be found in a new set-up.

Get the QT set-up now, so if things get worse you can act quickly. If tomorrow they get better then you can always decide to leave them be, but if there is something - some contaminate- in the new tank that your tests can't measure then you'll have a chance to save the fish.

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

I agree with S@ltydog.

 

[osteopth]

Make a clear box out plexiglas with a hinged door at one end and connect a 1 inch PVC pipe to the top of the other end with a bulkhead. Use fishing line connected to the top of the door and run through a hole in the top of the box near the door to close the door from a distance. Drop food into the PVC pipe from above the water line, grab a cold drink and wait for them to go inside. Has worked for me dozens of times.

Then use copper, or if you can, try transferring the fish every 2-3 days into clean fresh water (look up transfer method) they should be clean in 5 days but finish the 12 day process. You'll have to remove all the fish for the full 12 weeks or it will just come back. You can keep them in anything for that time - I used a Rubbermaid container.

I did this 2 years ago during a severe outbreak. Didn't lose any fish after starting and have not had another outbreak since I started using the transfer method.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robert]

I just saw S@ltydogs very good answer.

Methelyne Blue - I agree with this but not as a dip. AFAIK methelyne blue is not effective against ich although it does have anti-fungal properties and is used to protect fish eggs against fungal infection. Methelyne blue's benefit is that it frees liberates hemoglobin in the fishes blood, increasing it's o2 carrying capacity, reduces respiratory distress and by darkening the water eliminates stress of the new environment.

I just add it to the QT - not as a dip.

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

I just did that to my fish after a outbreak. I kept the water blue and copper level up for five weeks in hypersalinity. Then brought the salinity back up over the next week with small water changes which slowly removed the meds. It has been a month since they have been back in the DT no issues yet.

 

[S@ltydog]

Methelyne Blue actually does help treat external protozoan issues such as Ich, Chilodonella, Costia. I just use it as part of the treatment. But you are correct with the anti-fungal properties as well though.

 

[Saltgator]

Thank you all who replied. I just checked the dt and all 3 are still with me. My lfs open's soon so I'm on my way now to try and find methelyn blue. Hopefully they carry it.

Saltydog, thank you for your write up. I'm gonna try your way, but holding off on the copper for the moment.

Thanks y'all.
Brad

Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

 

[btkrausen]

If it helps, I"m currently going through hypo-salinity in my tank from an ich breakout. I was quarantining, but, dummy me, I used the same cup to feed both tanks, and I transferred it over to my display.

I lost a lot of fish, but saved a lot as well. My fish look awesome now that I'm in my 6-7 week of hypo and I can't wait to be able to purchase new fish. Going to go much slower with additions moving forward.

 

[Saltgator]

If it helps, I"m currently going through hypo-salinity in my tank from an ich breakout. I was quarantining, but, dummy me, I used the same cup to feed both tanks, and I transferred it over to my display.

I lost a lot of fish, but saved a lot as well. My fish look awesome now that I'm in my 6-7 week of hypo and I can't wait to be able to purchase new fish. Going to go much slower with additions moving forward.

So your dt is in hypo?

Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

 

[Saltgator]

So your dt is in hypo?

Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

Oh, never mind. Reading too fast. Sorry about your losses but happy your on the up hill climb.

Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

 

[robby2782]

Methelyne Blue actually does help treat external protozoan issues such as Ich, Chilodonella, Costia. I just use it as part of the treatment. But you are correct with the anti-fungal properties as well though.

In my past experience with ich, methelyn blue worked really well for me in my fish only tanks. Probably faster than Malichite green. The caveat though is the possible staining of your skimmer and hoses. I haven't used it in probably 10 years though since I started using live rock.

 

[returnofsid]

Since it sounds like you have your 3 Tangs in a QT tank, I would recommend moving ALL of your fish to the QT and treating with hyposalinity, while keeping the Display tank 'fallow' for about 8 weeks. This will ensure that all Ich is removed from your display tank AND that all Ich is removed from your fish, during the hyposalinity treatment. I'd also recommend that you read through this sticky. https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-discussion/56989-ich-discussion-treatment-options.html

 

[btkrausen]

Oh, never mind. Reading too fast. Sorry about your losses but happy your on the up hill climb.

Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

Yep, DT is in hypo right now and will be for another couple weeks probably.

Thanks, been happy with the remaining fish; they are still eating like a champ.

 

[Saltgator]

Well... Came home to all alive and tried feeding. Only the orange shoulder ate, but very little. I'm try to catch them (so they came start hypo), but losing that battle every time because they avoid any bag, net, egg crate. Just blazing fast and agile. Guess I gotta remove everything. :thumbdown:


Country boy using tapatalk from Evo 4g

 

[Saltgator]

Well after a long stress-riddled day, and after pulling half of my display apart, I have the 3 tangs in QT! I administerd a FW dip for 3 minutes then added them to the QT. All 3 are up and swimming, but still have the some spots. Breathing seems to have come back down to normal too. Before I do a hypo salinity drop overthe next 3 days, should I administer methelyn blue and/or quick cure in a dip? If so, how long and with FW or some of their water? Also, should I hold off on anything more until Sunday (because they have been threw enough already)?Thanks all y'all for assisting this fella in my headache/stress/crazy time. Just when I have all my corals growing like crazy and felling good about my current reef, I get threw back! Glad I had y'all.

Brad