I think my sailfin is going to die soon. What should I do?

[Ozzyfrank]

This morning this sailfin tang started swimming vertically (its mouth pointed the ground) and it was swimming into the bubbles from an airstone. The last time I had a tang swim in a weird way like this, it died shortly after. I'm not sure what the cause of this is or what to do. It is breathing very heavily. I don't see any white spots on it.


Any advice would be appreciated.

After I saw the tang swimming like that I did a 60% water change. There is 1 lyretail anthias, 1 yellow watchman goby, and 1 firefish goby in the tank with the sailfin tang.



The sailfin tang is in a 35 gallon QT tank.
Temp 76 F
Ph. 8.4
Ammonia 0-0.25
Nitrite/nitrate= 0
Copper level was 1.75 but after the water change, It's probably near 1 ppm or less.
Seachem kanaplex and metroplex are also in the water.

 

[Spare time]

#fishmedic

That copper level is too low at either of those concentrations (assuming copper power or coppersafe) to do anything so that's something to keep in mind for the future. I also do not like dosing antibiotics unless you are sure you have a bacterial infection on/in the fish are antibiotics are harmful. However that first pic looks like the fish has some infection on the top of it's dorsal fin, and kanaplex is a good choice for a broad spectrum antibiotic.


As for what to do now, I tagged #fishmedic for advice

 

[Ozzyfrank]

Should I raise the copper to 2.0? I was thinking dropping the copper level may offer some relief for the sailfin tang.

 

[Spare time]

Should I raise the copper to 2.0? I was thinking dropping the copper level may offer some relief for the sailfin tang.

It needs to be 2.25-2.5ppm but if it's a bacterial infection, it might be better to not run copper. Again, I'd wait for someone like @Jay Hemdal to give more solid recommendations moving forward

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is a tough one. I think there is a missing clue here. The fish is certainly having major difficulty. It is breathing a bit fast, and is a bit thin, but not to the point I would expect it to look like this. Dropping the copper level is always a mistake - the fish may die, but it isn't because of the copper. You need to keep the copper up to protect the other fish.

How long have you had this fish?
When did you last see it eat?
Are all the other fish doing good?
What test kit are you using for ammonia?

Jay

 

[Ozzyfrank]

I got the sailfin tang on 12/14. The problem is I've seen it peck on some of the PVC piping, but I've never witnessed it eating the pellets, nori, or baby brine shrimp (it always hides when I feed).

I will raise the copper level again. This is my 1st time doing the QT process.

Should I do a freshwater fluke bath?

The other fish are fine.
I am using an API ammonia test kit.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

API ammonia tests are tough to use, I worry that it is giving you false low results.
You could try a FW dip, but the fish looks pretty weak. You could also try a Prazipro treatment, that would be less stressful.
Jay

 

[Ozzyfrank]

Hmm. If the API is giving falsely low results that would be a problem. I can probably test for ammonia in my display tank and compare it to the QT tank.

I did a freshwater bath. But I don't see any noticeable improvement. I also didn't see any flukes in the container.

Should I try like a 3-hour prazipro bath tomorrow? I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hmm. If the API is giving falsely low results that would be a problem. I can probably test for ammonia in my display tank and compare it to the QT tank.

I did a freshwater bath. But I don't see any noticeable improvement. I also didn't see any flukes in the container.

Should I try like a 3-hour prazipro bath tomorrow? I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Thanks.

Yes - very good idea to test the DT and compare results since you know the DT is going to be zero.
Why not dose the whole tank with prazi? That way, there won’t be any flukes in the tank.
Jay

 

[Spare time]

If you have ammonia concerns, get a big bottle of marine cycling bacteria and dump it in (as well as adding a biosponge)

 

[Ozzyfrank]

Again, this is my 1st time doing the quarantine process. But could I take water from the display tank and fill up the quarantine tank? That way, it would be instantly cycled.

I've heard that I should not dose Copper Power with Prazi pro. How low should the copper be at? I'm assuming as low as I can get it. Or can I use both?

 

[threebuoys]

Using water from the display tank would only be a temporary solution, no different than a water change with freshly made saltwater. The bacteria responsible for maintaining a cycled tank lives on the surfaces of the rock, sand, filter media supporting the bio-filtration of the DT. Your best bet will be to transfer filter media from the DT system to the QT. Bacteria in a Bottle products can be used, but it's success will be dependent on the bacteria attaching to surfaces and reproducing to adequate levels to process ammonia. Often, that process can take several days. Hence the need to monitor ammonia until you are confident the QT is properly cycling.

Keep in mind any calcareous material in the QT will absorb copper. Don't use live rock or aragonite, etc, and monitor copper levels.

While the QT protocol recommends a two step process for copper and prazi, simultaneous treatment is possible when fear that both flukes and parasites are active. If you already have copper power or coppersafe at the 2.25 - 2.5 ppm concentration, rather than removing the copper, I would begin prazi treatment. Be sure to add airstone(s) to the QT while you are treating with prazi.

 

[Ozzyfrank]

The sailfin did not survive the night.

It looks like it was developing HLLE. I just did another freshwater bath (after it was dead) to see if any flukes would come off (none did). So, I'm not sure why it died, but the non-zero ammonia levels may have contributed. But it was never eating well, so maybe there were internal parasites or flukes?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The sailfin did not survive the night.

It looks like it was developing HLLE. I just did another freshwater bath (after it was dead) to see if any flukes would come off (none did). So, I'm not sure why it died, but the non-zero ammonia levels may have contributed. But it was never eating well, so maybe there were internal parasites or flukes?

Thanks for the help.

Sorry to hear. Yes, the tang had minor HLLE, but that isn't related to the cause of death - fish can live for years with that.

Dipping freshly dead fish to look for flukes is a good technique, however, many people don't realize that there is only one type of fluke (Neobenedenia) that can be seen with the unaided eye in dip water, the rest require a microscope, and the FW contorts their body, making them difficult to identify.)

Jay