I am at a loss. Nutrients out of whack

[mcgullen]

a uv serilizer on a sumpless tank? I thought they were only ran for sump tanks with return pumps.

Check out green killing machines or any submersible sterilizers (they come with shields to protect animals). There are lots and lots of them. You will likely see an improvement within days.

 

[DeniseAndy]

UV sterilizers should in fact be run in the main display to and from for best results and not through the sump. However, many are run from the sump to the main display, yes.

 

[nick654377]

Turf algae can be a pain as most fish will not touch it. I have only found one friend to help with turf algae. Tuxedo urchin. So, yours will get it done, just too slowly it sounds. you need to help it with manual removal and getting nutrients down.
What water are you using?
Are your coral doing fine currently?

Corals are doing great with the exception of my red goni. I make my own ro water at home so I know that it’s pure.

 

[nick654377]

Turf algae can be a pain as most fish will not touch it. I have only found one friend to help with turf algae. Tuxedo urchin. So, yours will get it done, just too slowly it sounds. you need to help it with manual removal and getting nutrients down.
What water are you using?
Are your coral doing fine currently?

Corals are great with exception to my red goni. As far as water I make my own ro at home for when I need it.

 

[mcgullen]

If you have younger kids at home, make sure they understand that UV is extremely dangerous. I once caught two kids removing the protective casing to play a game of "who can stare at UV longer".

 

[DeniseAndy]

The system does not look too bad at all. I had red turf algae at one point on every rock - covered. My tuxedos did the trick in months. In my 210g.
Just continue doing manual removal and water changes. Make sure you do not have a nitrate sink somewhere. An old sponge, trapped area of no flow, etc.

 

[Lavey29]

Corals are great with exception to my red goni. As far as water I make my own ro at home for when I need it.

Is your tank near a window where external light source may be contributing to algae?

 

[minus9]

Looking at your rock, I think that you have a lot of PO4 bound to the rock, especially a dry rock tank (as I believe the LR from the LFS was just dry rock that's been wet for a while). It will take you a year or more to establish a healthy diverse bacterial colony. Also, PNS Probio needs vitamin b in order to grow and populate, so unless you're adding Yello Sno as well, your additions will only go so far. When dosing PNS Probio, I usually dose 1mL/gal, followed the next day by Yello Sno at about 70% of the recommended dose. I think you should use the HOB filter for needed mechanical media with very little chemical media. Can you post a full tank shot so we can see all of the rock?
Tuxedo urchins are your best defense with turf algae, they'll get the job done, but it will take a while. Water changes will do nothing for nutrient control, so use them to replenish trace elements, etc, not nutrient control. Establishing an effective biological filter can take some time, especially with dry rock.

 

[Reckless]

I would stop feeding Rods mix, IME it for more mature tanks. You tank is still very new and going through its ugly stage which take a minimum of a year. There are a lot of food particles floating around that your new tank isn't mature enough to handle. I bet if you switched to mysis shrimp rinsed in RO water you phosphates would drop without NOPOX.

 

[minus9]

I would stop feeding Rods mix, IME it for more mature tanks. You tank is still very new and going through its ugly stage which take a minimum of a year. There are a lot of food particles floating around that your new tank isn't mature enough to handle. I bet if you switched to mysis shrimp rinsed in RO water you phosphates would drop without NOPOX.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Foods like Rod's or LRS are a lot cleaner than rinsed Mysis. Also, when did certain foods become a thing with mature tanks only? I agree that if you're just dumping in a bunch of food, regardless of what it is, that it will cause problems, but if you're only feeding what your fish consume, then it's not an issue. The whole argument of feeding less to combat algae issues is totally backwards in my book. You need to feed the right foods and the right amount throughout the day. If you're having issues with excess nutrients or algae, then it's an export issue or biological issue. I honestly think that dry rock and new reefers is a recipe for disaster and the wrong way to start in this hobby. This notion that you're using dry rock to be free of pests is crazy. New reefers need to understand the basic fundamentals of reefing biology and chemistry before they go all in on dry rock.
To the OP, do yourself a favor and find a nice piece or two of actual mature live rock and add it to your tank. Keep using your current food, maybe use some quality flake food like Cool Green and Cool Mysis. I also would pick up a book or two about keeping reef tanks. To me, this is the biggest issue with new hobbyist, the lack of understanding of the basic principals of keeping a reef tank. You can watch all of the videos out there, but you are only getting the cliff notes. Sorry to be the "get off my lawn guy", but pick up a classic book by Martin Moe, Sprung, Delbeek, etc...the principals and ideas in the pages of these books are virtually unchanged and will give you a pretty good understanding of where you need to be.

 

[Lavey29]

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Foods like Rod's or LRS are a lot cleaner than rinsed Mysis. Also, when did certain foods become a thing with mature tanks only? I agree that if you're just dumping in a bunch of food, regardless of what it is, that it will cause problems, but if you're only feeding what your fish consume, then it's not an issue. The whole argument of feeding less to combat algae issues is totally backwards in my book. You need to feed the right foods and the right amount throughout the day. If you're having issues with excess nutrients or algae, then it's an export issue or biological issue. I honestly think that dry rock and new reefers is a recipe for disaster and the wrong way to start in this hobby. This notion that you're using dry rock to be free of pests is crazy. New reefers need to understand the basic fundamentals of reefing biology and chemistry before they go all in on dry rock.
To the OP, do yourself a favor and find a nice piece or two of actual mature live rock and add it to your tank. Keep using your current food, maybe use some quality flake food like Cool Green and Cool Mysis. I also would pick up a book or two about keeping reef tanks. To me, this is the biggest issue with new hobbyist, the lack of understanding of the basic principals of keeping a reef tank. You can watch all of the videos out there, but you are only getting the cliff notes. Sorry to be the "get off my lawn guy", but pick up a classic book by Martin Moe, Sprung, Delbeek, etc...the principals and ideas in the pages of these books are virtually unchanged and will give you a pretty good understanding of where you need to be.

Great info but reef roids certainly spikes phosphate big time. I cut that out totally but do follow the rest of your guidance.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I see the turf algae in your pictures. It's not terrible though. The corals look good. Here's what I would do and why...

1. Stop adding any chemicals promising to eliminate algae or lower nitrate or phosphate.
Every time you add something that alters a nutrient processing pathway in order to stop one form of nutrient, you also limit other pathways that are processing other forms of nutrients. These pathways are interconnected. What happens then is other nutrients rise, other organisms grow to take advantage of them, and you have a new problem. Fixing that problem yields yet another new organism, and etc..

2. Start doing water changes while vacuuming the sand;
This simply exports some nutrients and dissolved and particulate organic compounds and HELPS keep them at a lower level until you system matures enough to do it on its own.

3. Use the canister filter just for small amounts of GFO (like Rowaphos or Phosban) and change it often.
A. You have enough substrate in the display tank to handle ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Additional substrate in the canister is unnecessary.
B. The canister traps a lot of particulate organic material. This holds the particles in the water column until it is broken down into dissolved organic carbon, nitrate, and phosphate. This is a bad thing for an immature tank. Simple GFO traps only phosphate. Only the media bag does any trapping of organic matter. Changing the GFO and cleaning the bag often replaces GFO that is quickly exhausted and removes trapped organic matter before it can decay.

4. Add ONE Dolabella Sea Hare.
It will eat the crap out of Turf Algae... fast-ish. Watch out though, they can starve when the algae is gone. There is a down side. They can "Ink" the tank when they die. This is bothersome and might affect some of the livestock.

5. Feed normally with frozen food. Stay away from flakes & pellets for a while.

Don't expect miracles, just slow, steady progress.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I agree with the above, except the sea hare. I have just had bad luck getting them to eat anything. Maybe I am just unlucky.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Guys I am at a loss with my tank.

Tank has been up and running since November. It is a 65 Gallon non sump tank with a hob skimmer and hob filter. Very minimal lighting (reef breeders Photon V2 at 12 inches above the water 25% max intensity for 3.5 hours with a 3 hour moon light at night at 5% max.) We recently had a huge turf algae bloom and its a pain. Taking to another member he suggested adding PNS Pro Bio every week for 4 weeks untill the bottle is gone. I did do that and it didnt help much.

Long story short I have been battling higher po4 values around 0.1-0.13 and Nitrates around 20-30. Well I started dosing morning and night with no3-po4x. 8 ml in morning and 5-6 at night to bring phosphates down. I finally got them down. Testing from today reads the following and this is where I am at a loss.

ph7.8 (dropped 0.2 from lower lighting)
Ammonia 0.25 (always read 0.0)
Nitrite 0.25 (always read 0.0)
Nitrate 40 ( usually a little lower)
Alk 9.6 (its usually around 9.2)
Phosphate 0.6 (Finally got past where I was) I am happy here)
Mag 1260 ( I know this is a tad low but I am out of supplement until my delivery)
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78*


For the clean up crew I have the following:
2 emerald crabs
1 blood shimp
10 nassarius sails
8 large mexican turbo
2 hermits (these are dying off and i am glad)
1 Tuxedo urcin (1" and he is doing work on the turf algae but very slowly)

Fish in the tank are as follows:
1 lawnmower blenny (is not touching the turf algae)
1 yellow tang (not touching the turf algae)
2 clowns
1 clown goby
1 carribian pistol shrimp
1 long nose hawk fish

I feed a very small amount once a day since we got rid of our puffer. I feed Rods mix about a little smaller than a dime size. I know I am past due for a water change but I am still at a loss why my ammonia and nitrite jumped up. we mostly have torches, frog spawn, hammers, goni, plate corals, zoa, and Xenia.

Please help me bring these nutrients down. I do not know where to start and I do not want to take all the rock out to re do the scape.

Your tank is doing fine, and your params are okay.

It's just doing the ugly phase thing a bit later than some.

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do apart from consistent 10% weekly water changes.
I would not add any more coral at the moment.

A UV running fom a pump dropped in the display and back to the display will stop the algae spreading.
You need to manually remove as much as possible on a daily basis .

There are no quick fixes in this hobby.

 

[nick654377]

So an update on a few things.

1. I quit using reef roids after I noticed the PO4 spiking and my poodle ate the bag under the tank so she helped with getting rid of the food. I may switch to reef chili as I do target feed the corals once to twice a week.
2. uv will be here tomorrow and will get that up and running.
3. cleaned all sponges with 3% H2O2.
4. removed the sponge in my hob skimmer as it kept clogging up very quickly.
5. Mag is at 1260 and am going to slowly raise it to 1500 over the next week. (wish i could dump all the 546ml I need in at once but I know that is a bad idea.)
6. the live rock was infact live rock. there were multiple *** plugs on the rock and 2 of the corals ended up growing back and are continuing to grow. So the rock wasnt just tossed into the tank at the LFS.
7. I do not think a piece of frozen food smaller than a dime is too much food for the fish in the tank considering if anything hit the floor the snails jump right on it.
8. I do not want to explore the option of a seahare as I know they will get the job done quickly. I dont want to risk it dying and nuking the whole tank.
9. The tank is 15 feet across the room from the window. So yes it does get some natural sun light in the morning till about 11 then the sun is out of this room. (could this be an issue for the algae yes. Do I think it is, No)
10. I am considering getting another tuxedo urchin as the one I did get in the mail is having a blast, but it only came in at 1 inch so I feel it is on the smaller side for what is in front of it.

yes I am well aware this is the UGLY stage but the funny part is we all start somewhere and quickly forget where we start. That is why it is important to provide educated answers to others. no two tanks are the same. what works for one person may not work for another. Do I wish I had a sump for the tank. Yes. Do I want to spend $1200 with overflows, sump, pumps, lights, and a new skimmer along with the pluming? no I do not so I will make what I have work for now untill we upgrade the tank.

I appreciate all the input on this and will keep everyone posted on how the increased mag turns out with the uv sterilizer.