I’m completely stumped and need help

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DanyL

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I now know better than to dip new arrivals in Coral RX so that's a plus, maybe that will help with survival. I will keep an eye on the seriatophora and see if the spots progress any.

Salinity is 1.025, I check it using a red sea refractometer calibrated with ro/di per the instructions. I have also made a salinity calibration recipe using Randy's instructions and it's spot on.

I typically do 10% water changes every two weeks with red sea blue bucket. No recalls that i've seen.View attachment 3001861
Looking at your livestock, I insist you put a camera and watch your fish.
I've seen Sailfin, Fox Face and Melanurus all nipping on coral, some are sneakier than others and would not do this when you around, and may even wait till lights out.

I know you think they are well behaved, and you watched them but you never know until you know.

Here is my very own, recent experience with nipping:
4-5 months ago my 9 year old clam suddenly closed and wouldn't open, we didn't know what was going on, but it kept getting worst until it finally died. 2 months ago we bought 2 new, way-too-much-expensive clams, they started growing instantly and were thriving until a month ago when we spotted severe biting marks on both of them. Not knowing what we dealt with we moved the clams to our sump to let them recover.

A couple of days later, I was looking at another one of new additions, a tiny, even more expensive OG bounce.
It was nearly a week in our system, and it was all teared up.
Shocked, I moved what was left from it to the sump.

We suspected it was our new emerald crab, as this was our latest addition to the system.
Well, we caught him, and brought back our clams.
A few moments later, before we even moved the bounce back we spotted our so far well behaved Melanurus tearing up one clam after another, with so much aggression that if we wouldn't have spooked him away he probably teared them apart completely in less than 10 minutes.

Now mind you, we got both our old clam and Melanurus a few months apart from each other, both were added 9 years ago, and the Melanurus did not show any signs of nipping until this very moment.

I don't know if this is really what's going on in your tank, and I strongly believe the harsh dipping could've been responsible for some of the symptoms, but given the type of fish you have and their size, my suspicion for nipping is high.
 
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InvaderJim

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Looking at your livestock, I insist you put a camera and watch your fish.
I've seen Sailfin, Fox Face and Melanurus all nipping on coral, some are sneakier than others and would not do this when you around, and may even wait till lights out.

I know you think they are well behaved, and you watched them but you never know until you know.

Here is my very own, recent experience with nipping:
4-5 months ago my 9 year old clam suddenly closed and wouldn't open, we didn't know what was going on, but it kept getting worst until it finally died. 2 months ago we bought 2 new, way-too-much-expensive clams, they started growing instantly and were thriving until a month ago when we spotted severe biting marks on both of them. Not knowing what we dealt with we moved the clams to our sump to let them recover.

A couple of days later, I was looking at another one of new additions, a tiny, even more expensive OG bounce.
It was nearly a week in our system, and it was all teared up.
Shocked, I moved what was left from it to the sump.

We suspected it was our new emerald crab, as this was our latest addition to the system.
Well, we caught him, and brought back our clams.
A few moments later, before we even moved the bounce back we spotted our so far well behaved Melanurus tearing up one clam after another, with so much aggression that if we wouldn't have spooked him away he probably teared them apart completely in less than 10 minutes.

Now mind you, we got both our old clam and Melanurus a few months apart from each other, both were added 9 years ago, and the Melanurus did not show any signs of nipping until this very moment.

I don't know if this is really what's going on in your tank, and I strongly believe the harsh dipping could've been responsible for some of the symptoms, but given the type of fish you have and their size, my suspicion for nipping is high.
Interesting. Certainly something to take into consideration especially since I have a melanarus. I have a few wireless cameras sitting around I will set one up and see if I can catch anyone in the act.

Another thing I've been thinking about is I am on well water at my new house without a whole house water softener (yet). But I have been slacking on replenishing my DI resin and only yesterday realized that my TDS had been reading 1 and I'm not sure for how long. It makes me think that there is something in the water that the RO/DI normally removes but wasn't due to the DI resin being exhausted. Considering doing another ICP test just to see.
 

vetteguy53081

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This initially started as a thread in the SPS section asking for help on why I can’t keep acros, but lately it seems to have stemmed into something else entirely with multiple corals seemingly going down hill. I have tried everything yet corals either survive or die. Absolutely nothing grows. Recently changed all my filters due to TDS reading 1 but the only thing I can think is maybe something from my well water is getting passed my ro/di or the top off from the 1 TDS has something bad in it.

The tank is a seapora/deep blue 80g shallow, running a 40 breeder for a sump. I'm running a clarisea sk-3000, simplicity 240dc skimmer and a vectra s2 return pump. Nothing else fancy down below. Lighting is a ATI 6 bulb T5 fixture ~15" over the tank (bulbs are all new), and water movement is 2x MP40s set to anti-sync lagoon mode plus a gyre XF330. The tank has been up for 2 years in November of last year. ICP showed everything within normal levels except iodine. RO/DI was perfect. I make my own water using a 5 stage ro/di and Red Sea blue bucket.

Parameters:
pH - 7.8 - 8.2
DKH - 8.0-8.5
CA - 430
MG - 1350
Po4 - 0.08-0.1
No3 - 10-15 (pretty steady)

I have tried a handful of acro frags from different places, a milka stylo, monti setosa as well and nothing survives. I have a decent size monti cap that looks to be declining and a monti spongodes that is surviving but everything else dies. Some in days, some in weeks. Location doesn’t matter, source doesn’t matter. Some will do fine on the frag rack, great polyp extension and then one day STN. More recently I have noticed other corals declining also.

What I’ve tried:
- Sent off ICP
- Raising lights
- Running carbon and purit and also running without
- Adding more and randomized flow
- Slightly bypassing filter roller
- Stopped all dosing
- Added more fish
- Added some live sand/mud from IPSF
- Checked for stray voltage
ICP will be helpful. Some of the steps taken counters stability and sudden change which many SPS cannot endure. While they may not have had adverse impact, some other causes for this activity are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm- Yours are not crazy
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity fluctuations
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals or maricultured coral
- Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays
 
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DanyL

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Another thing I've been thinking about is I am on well water at my new house without a whole house water softener (yet). But I have been slacking on replenishing my DI resin and only yesterday realized that my TDS had been reading 1 and I'm not sure for how long. It makes me think that there is something in the water that the RO/DI normally removes but wasn't due to the DI resin being exhausted. Considering doing another ICP test just to see.
Could definitely be an additional underlaying issue, however based on the details you provided on the first post with somewhat acceptable ICP test results (all but Iodine), I wouldn't put much weight on it.
You do need to test you RODI water regularly and change filters and resin when needed on time though, especially if there are unknown problems going on.

If you're sending another ICP test I highly recommend purchasing one that also includes a test for your RODI.
 

vetteguy53081

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Interesting. Certainly something to take into consideration especially since I have a melanarus. I have a few wireless cameras sitting around I will set one up and see if I can catch anyone in the act.

Another thing I've been thinking about is I am on well water at my new house without a whole house water softener (yet). But I have been slacking on replenishing my DI resin and only yesterday realized that my TDS had been reading 1 and I'm not sure for how long. It makes me think that there is something in the water that the RO/DI normally removes but wasn't due to the DI resin being exhausted. Considering doing another ICP test just to see.
I did have issues at my last house with well with sulfur and low iron. I installed a whole house filter before water softener then it went to RODI and TDS was Zero to 1. Reading of 1 does not worry me. Also we had no more rings on our pots from Deposits.
 
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This initially started as a thread in the SPS section asking for help on why I can’t keep acros, but lately it seems to have stemmed into something else entirely with multiple corals seemingly going down hill. I have tried everything yet corals either survive or die. Absolutely nothing grows. Recently changed all my filters due to TDS reading 1 but the only thing I can think is maybe something from my well water is getting passed my ro/di or the top off from the 1 TDS has something bad in it.

The tank is a seapora/deep blue 80g shallow, running a 40 breeder for a sump. I'm running a clarisea sk-3000, simplicity 240dc skimmer and a vectra s2 return pump. Nothing else fancy down below. Lighting is a ATI 6 bulb T5 fixture ~15" over the tank (bulbs are all new), and water movement is 2x MP40s set to anti-sync lagoon mode plus a gyre XF330. The tank has been up for 2 years in November of last year. ICP showed everything within normal levels except iodine. RO/DI was perfect. I make my own water using a 5 stage ro/di and Red Sea blue bucket.

Parameters:
pH - 7.8 - 8.2
DKH - 8.0-8.5
CA - 430
MG - 1350
Po4 - 0.08-0.1
No3 - 10-15 (pretty steady)

I have tried a handful of acro frags from different places, a milka stylo, monti setosa as well and nothing survives. I have a decent size monti cap that looks to be declining and a monti spongodes that is surviving but everything else dies. Some in days, some in weeks. Location doesn’t matter, source doesn’t matter. Some will do fine on the frag rack, great polyp extension and then one day STN. More recently I have noticed other corals declining also.

What I’ve tried:
- Sent off ICP
- Raising lights
- Running carbon and purit and also running without
- Adding more and randomized flow
- Slightly bypassing filter roller
- Stopped all dosing
- Added more fish
- Added some live sand/mud from IPSF
- Checked for stray voltage
How are you testing for po4 and No3? (And also alk)

Also if you shine a white flashlight at the corals in distress, what color is the skeleton?
 
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InvaderJim

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Could definitely be an additional underlaying issue, however based on the details you provided on the first post with somewhat acceptable ICP test results (all but Iodine), I wouldn't put much weight on it.
You do need to test you RODI water regularly and change filters and resin when needed on time though, especially if there are unknown problems going on.

If you're sending another ICP test I highly recommend purchasing one that also includes a test for your RODI.
That's a valid point considering I was having these issues prior to my last icp. The last one I did was an ATI and all it showed was high silicon.
I did have issues at my last house with well with sulfur and low iron. I installed a whole house filter before water softener then it went to RODI and TDS was Zero to 1. Reading of 1 does not worry me. Also we had no more rings on our pots from Deposits.
Good to know. I do have a little bit of calcium deposits on faucets but nothing crazy
this may have already been said but it is possible you have some kind of bacterial issue. some bacteria mostly affect the more sensitive corals like sps.
I have considered that and have considered trying an aquabiomics test to test for pathogens
How are you testing for po4 and No3? (And also alk)

Also if you shine a white flashlight at the corals in distress, what color is the skeleton?
All with Hanna checkers. I also have a salifert alk and nitrate tests to cross check.

Skeleton on the stressed coral is bright white
 

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Any chance you could PM your ICP results for a deeper dive into helping you solve this?
 
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DanyL

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So far I guess I’m going to change my dipping method, send off an ICP for freshly mixed saltwater and also considering doing a pathogen test from aquabiomics.
No need to ICP test a fresh mix of saltwater - you already have an ICP test from Red Sea itself, for your very own batch.
Instead, you want to test both your tank water and your RODI water.
There are a few companies that offer a test like this like Fauna Marine and Oceamo.

A pathogen test is a good path to explore
 
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No need to ICP test a fresh mix of saltwater - you already have an ICP test from Red Sea itself, for your very own batch.
Instead, you want to test both your tank water and your RODI water.
There are a few companies that offer a test like this like Fauna Marine and Oceamo.

A pathogen test is a good path to explore
The previous ICP I sent in was from my tank and RO/DI and showed nothing unusual.

The Seriatopora tips definitely look worse today. So I'm leaning towards bacterial.
 

DanyL

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The Seriatopora tips definitely look worse today. So I'm leaning towards bacterial.
Most likely bacterial, yes.
Break the infected tips with a bit of live tissue and make an Iodine dip, hopefully we'll be able to make it stop spreading.
 

DanyL

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Just a thought/idea I would like to put out there.

If it really is a bad bacterial population issue, you try to repopulate it with a good one by using a Biopellets reactor.
The idea here is to basically dose good, bottled bacteria into the reactor to seed the media, while at the same time to dose NP to feed it.

The logic behind this is that the environment inside the reactor would (mostly) cultivate the good bacteria, and hopefully will overtake the bad one in a reasonable amount of time.

My only concern with this approach are the nutrient fluctuations, and the balance between the old and new bacteria given that Biopellets reactors are usually directed to output right into the skimmers inlet to pull out the bacteria as fast as possible, which is not exactly our goal here.
 

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I had at one point a pretty bad bacterial issue with my tank. my fix was adding a little bit of starter bacteria every time I do a water change or add any type of live stock to my tank. I also change my filters more often. I have been doing this for a little over a year now and none of my previous issues have returned. I will n
note it took roughly 4 Ish months before I saw corals looking happier again once I started doing this .
 
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I had at one point a pretty bad bacterial issue with my tank. my fix was adding a little bit of starter bacteria every time I do a water change or add any type of live stock to my tank. I also change my filters more often. I have been doing this for a little over a year now and none of my previous issues have returned. I will n
note it took roughly 4 Ish months before I saw corals looking happier again once I started doing this .
I actually did this today. I did a large water change after replacing my RO/DI filters and added some MB7 and a drop of zeoBAK.

The fact you had success with it a reassuring though.
 

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I also use mb7 with my water changes and I also use polyp labs genesis which is a live bacterial strain which I use 1 drop a day per the instructions. i would also add that i run a heavier than normal carbon system to strip toxins do to the euphyllia in my tank.
 
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InvaderJim

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The saga continues. After my water change yesterday my monti spongodes colony is showing skeleton on the top for whatever reason. Same salt, brand new RO/DI filters. Matched salinity and temp. This tank may be in for a complete tear down
 

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Having something similar in one of my tanks. No coral but softies will live, but inverts and fish do fine. I am leaning towards a bacterial infection and I have considered a complete teardown but I think I might try a full tank cipro treatment first.
 
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