Hydros and float switches

[javajaws]

So it seems we only have 2 options - use expensive Hydros switches that require a single sense port (of which there are only a few on any given controller and are expensive) or use off the shelf float switches with a 0-10v input port which can support 4 channels each (of which there are only 1 on any given controller and only a couple controllers have even one 0-10v input).

Am I missing something here? If you use Hydros - how many switches do you have hooked up? I like redundancy and having high/low switches where appropriate. I also don't like wiring multiple switches in parallel when possible for redundancy because I'll never know if one goes out (thus somewhat losing redundancy). I want every switch on a dedicated input so that I can monitor and detect if there is a failure (like when it's backup switch turns on, etc).

Hydros desperately needs a controller with just a bunch of 0-10v inputs IMO and more sense ports. I find it impossible to affordably monitor water levels in multiple containers (RODI, AWC salt container, Kalk container, sump, etc).

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I use the sense ports but I don't have a huge amount of water level sensors. I use a skimmer sensor, leak sensor and that is it. I use the built-in volume alerts for my dosing containers and the Saltwater container is in a totally separate room so I would need a separate control module to monitor there no matter what.

Whatever control module you start with, you will likely have at least 4 sense ports and if you add nearly any accessory you get more. The sense ports are on almost every control module so you will get more quickly. If you add a Minnow, Maven, or an additional XS, X2, X4, X10, they all come with more sense ports.

How many level sensors do you need and do you need them in 1 place? If you want some by your mixing station and some by the tank you will likely need 2 control modules no matter what.

 

[javajaws]

Sense ports only support 1 switch each, and only hydros switches at that (I'm sure I could find the pinout and wire my own though). But really, even those aren't enough - there just aren't enough on any 1 or 2 controllers. I have another XS on the way for 4 more, but come on - spending $160 just so I can wire in 4 more float switches? I need at least 16 I think! 0-10v is really the better option here but as I mentioned there are not enough of them on the current controller offerings (I have 2 across the controllers I currently own - an X4 and a WaveEngine).

I have a sump that ideally needs multiple float switches to fully automate everything and be safe (high alarm, low alarm, and "fill" somewhere in the middle). I have a coral QT tank that needs at least 3 as well, then I have 3 containers for RO/salt/kalk that could ideally use quite a few as well. The RO/DI alone needs high and low switches and since this will be hooked up to the RO/DI unit it needs redundancies as well - so that's 4 for that 1 container alone.

Don't forget that sense ports are used for temperature sensors too - and since I have 2 tanks that takes up 2 sense ports already.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

I guess. I just don't do this all through Hydros. On our office RO I have an Aquaticlife barrel buddie control my RO freshwater container and then just use a low level sensor for the saltwater and a leak sensor in case something floods. While you can go all through Hydros I don't feel I need that degree of control. You can also use the triple level sensors to give you an overflow alert as an ATO sensor and these only take 1 sense port.

 

[Paul B]

I use a mechanical float switch in my tank and it is fed with gravity. I have been using it for probably 40 years. There is a bucket near the ceiling that gets filled through the ro/di and that float switch is a DIY using a mercury switch from an old thermostat. Total cost, practically free, dependability, so far 100%

 

[AnomMatty]

It seems like you're attempting to automate absolutely everything with your system, which within any automation system (hydros/neptune/ghl) is gonna get pricey equipment wise. Especially when doing every sensor x2 for redundancy. I think as hydros ages as a line there will more/different options to encompass what you're wanting to accomplish, but that's a hypothetical that only time will prove/disprove.

I'd consider reevaluating where I *need* switches and don't, and places where float switches could be replaced for something else that requires less ports. E.g. using a pair of triple level sensors instead of 4 floats to read high/low and have redundancy.

You might check out the hydros forums, there's a lot of DIY there, and someone has probably tackled a similar situation.

 

[JeffB418]

There is a way to use a single 0-10V input channel for 2 float switches, but you have to be VERY careful in how you design it. These ports are pulled to 2.5V internal. And there is a 5V pin on this same port. You could wire 1 float switch to 5V and one to GND, and internally program 2 inputs off that one input channel. One that triggers at 4-5V and one that triggers at 0-1V. But you HAVE to make sure that theres no condition where both switches are ON at the same time, otherwise you will just short 5V to ground through both switches. There are very few cases tho you can make sure this is the case. But you do get 4 inputs per 0-10V input port.

For an easy interface on the 0-10V port, search google for JB Aquatics Hydros Breakout Box. Spring loaded contacts for all 4 ports and GND/POWER.

 

[JeffB418]

There are also methods to use resistor trees into a single 0-10V input. again if you can guarantee only 1 switch is active at a time, you can get upto 5 switches into one 0-10V channel. See here https://forum.coralvuehydros.com/threads/diy-0-10v-input-switch-box-5-switches.316/

This setup is more safe since if more than 1 switch is triggered, it will never short out 5V. Also the 5V will override all other switches.

 

[javajaws]

It seems like you're attempting to automate absolutely everything with your system, which within any automation system (hydros/neptune/ghl) is gonna get pricey equipment wise. Especially when doing every sensor x2 for redundancy. I think as hydros ages as a line there will more/different options to encompass what you're wanting to accomplish, but that's a hypothetical that only time will prove/disprove.

I'd consider reevaluating where I *need* switches and don't, and places where float switches could be replaced for something else that requires less ports. E.g. using a pair of triple level sensors instead of 4 floats to read high/low and have redundancy.

You might check out the hydros forums, there's a lot of DIY there, and someone has probably tackled a similar situation.

Yeah, I've already temporarily ruled out switches on the kalk and salt reservoirs - I'll just set calendar alarms based on calculated usage. Well, that and they will be next to the washer/dryer so visual inspection as well. I'll also have a low alarm in the sump itself in case one of those goes empty.

 

[javajaws]

There is a way to use a single 0-10V input channel for 2 float switches, but you have to be VERY careful in how you design it. These ports are pulled to 2.5V internal. And there is a 5V pin on this same port. You could wire 1 float switch to 5V and one to GND, and internally program 2 inputs off that one input channel. One that triggers at 4-5V and one that triggers at 0-1V. But you HAVE to make sure that theres no condition where both switches are ON at the same time, otherwise you will just short 5V to ground through both switches. There are very few cases tho you can make sure this is the case. But you do get 4 inputs per 0-10V input port.

For an easy interface on the 0-10V port, search google for JB Aquatics Hydros Breakout Box. Spring loaded contacts for all 4 ports and GND/POWER.

Yeah I already have one of their breakout boxes (and a button box). I'd buy more but to get another 0-10v input port you have to spend at least $200 for another controller (a WaveEngine LE is the cheapest with a 0-10v input). If Coralvue would just make a controller with a few 0-10v inputs....

 

[BZOFIQ]

This is my exact complaint!

Apex give you 6 analog input ports on the controller and then additional 6 can be added with each PMx module for $100 (besides the extra, ph, temp etc thats also included), PMx modules can be bought used for about $50.

Perhaps i'm little extreme but on my 3 apexes I use nearly 50 inputs - yes you read that correctly.

 

[javajaws]

This is my exact complaint!

Apex give you 6 analog input ports on the controller and then additional 6 can be added with each PMx module for $100 (besides the extra, ph, temp etc thats also included), PMx modules can be bought used for about $50.

Perhaps i'm little extreme but on my 3 apexes I use nearly 50 inputs - yes you read that correctly.

I can totally see that - especially if you have redundancy in place.

Really - water level control is the #1 thing a controller can and should be used for IMO. Just kind of surprised Hydros is so...limited here. I'm sure they'll eventually come out with a new controller with more inputs, we'll just have to wait for something or pay $$$ for controllers we don't need until then.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It shouldn't be too hard for either developer to make a module that plugs in and give you say 12-18 analog inputs but that would mean you don't buy 3-4 modules, you buy 1...you see where this is going.

 

[n2585722]

So it seems we only have 2 options - use expensive Hydros switches that require a single sense port (of which there are only a few on any given controller and are expensive) or use off the shelf float switches with a 0-10v input port which can support 4 channels each (of which there are only 1 on any given controller and only a couple controllers have even one 0-10v input).

Am I missing something here? If you use Hydros - how many switches do you have hooked up? I like redundancy and having high/low switches where appropriate. I also don't like wiring multiple switches in parallel when possible for redundancy because I'll never know if one goes out (thus somewhat losing redundancy). I want every switch on a dedicated input so that I can monitor and detect if there is a failure (like when it's backup switch turns on, etc).

Hydros desperately needs a controller with just a bunch of 0-10v inputs IMO and more sense ports. I find it impossible to affordably monitor water levels in multiple containers (RODI, AWC salt container, Kalk container, sump, etc).

I have 11 float switches hooked to my Hydros collective. All are connected to sense ports. The float switches were in place from my Archon and I just got the correct connectors and added to the switch cable and plugged them in sense ports and setup the input.

 

[n2585722]

It shouldn't be too hard for either developer to make a module that plugs in and give you say 12-18 analog inputs but that would mean you don't buy 3-4 modules, you buy 1...you see where this is going.

I don't think the processors used in the controller would do that many inputs. Also the Hydros system is all modules can be used either stand alone or in a collective. If you need only sense ports there is the XS. Since a lot of the other controllers also have 4 sense ports. I have 7 unused sense ports but I do have 21 sense ports in use.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I don't think the processors used in the controller would do that many inputs.

Not sure what you mean. I have an APEX classic that's managing 34 inputs.

 

[n2585722]

Not sure what you mean. I have an APEX classic that's managing 34 inputs.

I have 55 inputs setup on my Hydros system. I have 15 controllers in the collective.

 

[JeffB418]

Something to note, there is a difference between the 0-10V input channel on a Hydros device and a Apex input channel on a PM1/2/3,etc. Standard apex inputs can only detect open/closed switches (basically 0 and 1 logic). The 0-10V input on a hydros device is a full analog input, meaning you can show discrete voltages, not just high/low logic. Effectively a 0-10V input channel on Hydros is much closer to the input channel on a Neptune ASM Module, which are $100+ just for 1 channel and on Hydros you get 4 channels per port.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I have 55 inputs setup on my Hydros system. I have 15 controllers in the collective.

Yes, that's what i am saying. 15 controllers to get to 55 inputs is !TON! of money.

Retail wise it would take 10 x PM1 modules at a cost of $950 to get an additional 60 inputs - what would the same cost on Hydros' ecosystem?

If I take the Hydros XS as an example I would need 15 of them to get the same 60 input ports - at a cost of $2400! OUCH!

Am I wrong with my math?

 

[javajaws]

Yes, that's what i am saying. 15 controllers to get to 55 inputs is !TON! of money.

Retail wise it would take 10 x PM1 modules at a cost of $950 to get an additional 60 inputs - what would the same cost on Hydros' ecosystem?

If I take the Hydros XS as an example I would need 15 of them to get the same 60 input ports - at a cost of $2400! OUCH!

Am I wrong with my math?

You're forgetting the extra $100 worth of cables to connect them together lol. So let's say $2500.

Back before we had controllers you could DIY a PLC based setup - those usually had pretty cheap expansions you could add for more analog inputs/outputs.

Hydros really needs a controller with 4 (or more) 0-10v inputs - then you can use the splitter cables or breakout boxes from JB for 16 discrete inputs for (hopefully) under $200. That would be killer.