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great pictures and great advice, thanks
How to successfully keep SPS Corals!
- Thread starter revhtree
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Can people add how long it took to get to the current state? It seems like 4-5 years is the average for a full blown SPS reef tank.
Suprised this thread is still going lol. Regarding timeframes my tank has been up for about 8 1/2 years now and started the switch to SPS dominant about 3 years ago. The age of the tank allows for my occasional lapses in judgement and outright acts of stupidity. Ater keeping a reef for so long you would think you have it dialed in but from time to time I will still make a bonehead move and as I said before the age of the tank will help a lot in recovering from it. The biggest problems I have these days is keeping the corals away from each other and making room for them to retain their proper form. I had to completely remove and chop up one of my original corals, my Myagi Tort, because it was literally the size of a frizbee and the fuzed center portion was a thick as my hand. It was a real bummer to chop it up but removing it allowed me to place a number of new pieces and get better flow to the whole tank.
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This is about right.... Some pieces are stubborn and take 8 months to budge but then they explode and grow off the charts... If you bought a bunch of wild or mariculture colonies you could have a instant tank but you won't be happy after a month when there all brown or green with just a couple colored ones.... 2" frags are a great size to start with and grow into mini colonies pretty fast... Small frags 1/2" or so can either take off or just encrust for a year it's a gamble...
I have a few frags that literally started at 1" and didn't grow vertically but created a 4" diameter encrusted base.
About 3 months ago I purchased 6 maricultuered pieces. 3 stned in about 2 weeks and the 3 others have flourished into beautiful mini colonies. But theres no quick trick. I want a a sps dominate tank so I'm going to continue to be patient. I just don't want a hear to go by and realize I was doing something that was slowing the growth.
About 3 months ago I purchased 6 maricultuered pieces. 3 stned in about 2 weeks and the 3 others have flourished into beautiful mini colonies. But theres no quick trick. I want a a sps dominate tank so I'm going to continue to be patient. I just don't want a hear to go by and realize I was doing something that was slowing the growth.
Just in case it helps someone, I figured out it's a Needle Pinch Valve from Flow-Rite. The PV-2 model will work for airline tubing, but they have bigger models for up to (i think) 1/2" tubing.
Check out my earlier post in the https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/89355-do-yourself-dosing-pumps-2.html#post976045 thread for pics and more info.
-Matt
Making changes to a coral's water and light environment after it is established is the cause of many (most?) cases of STN/RTN. (my guess for the problem maricultured pieces in your example)
There are lots of dynamics to try to monitor or control with so many corals being added at once. Hence the often-repeated (and mostly ignored) call to go slow in this hobby.
As you found (sorry for the losses) adding one coral at a time would really be the way to go, IMO.A few thoughts on the dynamics...
Coral growth - some are faster, some are slower, some species will encrust a base until you're wondering if there will ever be vertical growth, while others never will encrust on their own. Some can do both but won't decide which way to go until they are in your tank and in position!
Water flow - intensity and other characteristics of water flow in the coral's immediate vicinity will play a large role on skeleton formation and shape. I have an orange M. digitata that has grown into an enormous plate with zero branches - who would expect that?! I once accidentally broke off a birdsnest colony and re-mounted it backwards (also accidentally) to the same base - water flow was so drastically different (unbeknownst to me) with this minor tweak in position that the colony started to RTN within a day or two.
Light - again intensity and other qualities will play a role. Any significant change could have a bad effect - especially on older colonies.
What complicates things and really demands that we take stony corals one at a time is that unlike (e.g.) water chemistry where we're all able to compare notes and generally agree on and test for the targets of 1.025, 420, 4.0 and 1350 to get max. growth, all of the mentioned factors above have no standard "correct answers" and no tests that you can use to verify what you are doing with a given coral. In addition to unique qualities of different species, each coral specimen is also unique due to its placement (its immediate flow and lighting environment in your tank) and may (will) require individualized attention and treatment. You've just got to be there and live with the coral for a while to get to know it - sounds corny like a relationship but it's literally true. And it's nigh on impossible to get to know (e.g.) 6 different corals, all at once, in any meaninful way. (True for all of us most of the time, but especially true if you are just starting out.)
-Matt
P.S. Cheers from NOVA!
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The statement above is well said and couldn't be more correct.
I too have lost mariculturs quite randomly. Tough to sort out the needs of new arrivals. Good rules of thumb would be to keep them stable in med light medium to low flow until they begin to stabilize (from my experience.)
Kurt
Unfortunately, a knot in a vinyl tube is a definitive no-go. Outside of very short term use, the tubing always loses its integrity and collapses toward 100% closed. Causes all kinds of issues, including clogging up faster.
Used a Two Little Fishies micro ball valve (aka drip irrigation ball valve) for most of the time. Came in a multipack for not-that-much-money.
Later I found someone local that carried Lee brand airline valves - cheaper, more adjustable like a gate valve, and formed a 90° Ell, which was convenient for me.
Later after that got the ideal valve for this role: a "Flow Control Needle Pinch Valve" from US Plastics. (Still haven't figured out who actually makes them.) Double check the sizing before you click Buy, but I think mine is Item# 44560. Abt $6/ea. This part is designed for this role and to work with this tubing. Unless you're so broke you can't come up with the extra $5, this is the only thing I'd really recommend.
Anything would better than using a knot though.
-Matt
What about just adding the calc and alk to the overflow? That is what I am doing right now but only at 40ml a day dosing. I figure by the time it makes it's way through the plumbing, skimmer and back to the tank it a slower process than shocking the system with a straight dump of 2 part in the display. Lets say I have to pump it up to 100ml in 6 months or so. Should I not add 100ml at one time to the over flow? Also, my tank is about 200 gallon total water volume.
50 mL/day is not that big of an addition, but presumably that number is going up, so we'll advise accordingly.
Dosing into the overflow is not a bad strategy, but I would still add it very slowly.
Also, there are a few additional concerns, mostly that you do not want freshly dosed chemical being drawn into any pumps under any circumstance.
It may take time and will not be obvious at first, but this will cause buildup of chalk to form on all the components in the impeller well. Water exchange in there is very low, the volume of water is very low and heat is relatively very high...ultimately leading to calcium carbonate precipitation, decreasing performance and the pump seizing "unexpectedly" after a short power outage..hopefully not burning up the pump which may need that water flow for cooling. (Many better pumps like Mag's have thermal shutoffs to protect against this, but cleaning it up is still a pain...and then there's the side effects of the pump not running.)
Personally I would still drip it in - whether via gravity doser or electrical dosing pump. 50 mL/day was actually my cut-off point for switching to a drip-doser. A decently set up dripper will get you far - mine got me up to around 400 mL/day. But I would move as quickly as you can into an automated doser. While expensive, the well-known commercial models are typically a lot more fully featured and easy to live with. Check out the https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/89355-do-yourself-dosing-pumps.html thread for some high quality, expensive options if budget is an issue. (Don't let that stop you from automating your dosing "asap"....it's much easier to set up a doser sooner than later.)
FWIW, if you do ever find that you have to dose directly into the tank, there're two "don'ts". One, don't let it go into a pump, as already mentioned. Two, don't let it get "blown" directly onto any coral. This is almost guaranteed to kill. It needs to be dripped/added where there is a lot of turbulence (i.e. mixing) but no critters. Far upstream from a flow pump, where the flow crashes into the opposing wall would be one good example option if that helps.
Good luck!
-Matt
What complicates things and really demands that we take stony corals one at a time is that unlike (e.g.) water chemistry where we're all able to compare notes and generally agree on and test for the targets of 1.025, 420, 4.0 and 1350 to get max. growth, all of the mentioned factors above have no standard "correct answers" and no tests that you can use to verify what you are doing with a given coral. In addition to unique qualities of different species, each coral specimen is also unique due to its placement (its immediate flow and lighting environment in your tank) and may (will) require individualized attention and treatment. You've just got to be there and live with the coral for a while to get to know it - sounds corny like a relationship but it's literally true. And it's nigh on impossible to get to know (e.g.) 6 different corals, all at once, in any meaninful way. (True for all of us most of the time, but especially true if you are just starting out.)
-Matt
P.S. Cheers from NOVA!
I keep seeing 2 sides to where my Alk should be. Why are some reefers staying at 4.0 Vs 8 or 9? I thought low Alk levels are dangerous for Sps corals?
Thank u Grant. I've been stocking up on SPS after seeing a few frags doing great under my LED's. I believe one is a green stag that is reaching for the sky at the bottom of my tank. Also have Rainbow Monti overtaking a rock. That got me started I was at a low Alk 4.9 and have slowly began to rise it. After a water change yesterday I'm at 5.7. Hope to be at my target 8/9 in a couple of weeks.
Yes, you have to be careful of the units being used. It's one of my pet peaves when people say that I'm having issues and my alkalinity is at 6. 6 what?! 6 dKh is a bit low, whereas 6 meq/l is way too high!
CJ
CJ
Stability of parameters at normal levels, patience and research of fish that can be added and taking necessary precautions like dipping and quarantining new livestock and corals for observation
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Jmreef just make sure you bring it up slowly. Alk adjustment is really hard on the acros and you can easily burn your corals. Anything above 7 isjust fine and 8 DKH is about perfect but remember to go slow. As in no more than about .5 at a time and stabilize there and watch the corals for a week or so then go up again until you get to the desired level. The key here is stabilize at each step for a while. Your patience will be rewarded
Jmreef just make sure you bring it up slowly. Alk adjustment is really hard on the acros and you can easily burn your corals. Anything above 7 isjust fine and 8 DKH is about perfect but remember to go slow. As in no more than about .5 at a time and stabilize there and watch the corals for a week or so then go up again until you get to the desired level. The key here is stabilize at each step for a while. Your patience will be rewarded
Agreed, but...
To JMREEF:
If you are lucky and not experiencing any negative side-effects of that alkalinity level, then I have no problem with the advice given above.
However, 5.7 dKH (divided by 2.8 = 2.03 meq/L) is still quite low - if you are experiencing any side-effects at all I'm not sure I'd allow this to take "a couple of weeks" to rectify.
Corals are going to be stressed more (IME) by being left in water that can have wicked pH swings from day to night - which 5.7 dKH will allow - than by making a reasonable correction to get your alk up to a safe area (7 dKH or 3 meq/L would be my target) in 1-2 days' time.
Rules:
1) Drip what you dose slowly - you want to see very little or no clouding (=precipitation) where the drips are hitting the water. (A very small amount is normal, depending on the chemical you are adding.) Pre-diluting your alk supplement in some RODI water is one additional way you can "slow down" the rate you're adding chemical. I used to pre-dilute every dose in about .5L of RODI.....a full liter when my doses got really big.
2) Don't raise alkalinity more than 1 meq/L (x 2.8 = 2.8 dKH) per day. Good rule of thumb - stick to it.
3) Even though you are dripping slowly, I would still break your total dose up into 2 or 3 smaller doses just to give yourself ample chance to observe any reactions as alkalinity rises. Reactions will usually be evident immediately, but can be delayed 30 min or so, so I'd give the tank at least an hour between those smaller doses.
Once your levels are in the safe zone, take your time from there to make the rest of your adjustment up to 4.0 meq/L (aka 11.2 dKH*).
What product are you using to make your adjustments? This can also affect your plan.
Also, what salt are you using? It's pretty strange for alkalinity to crash this low without Calcium also being very low. (Or is calcium also very low?) This suggests to me that calcium has somehow been supplemented in an unbalanced manner. (For example, I've seen more than one new Tropic Marin Pro Reef user end up being surprised with numbers like this.)
-Matt
* Grant is right in terms of the chemistry - 420 ppm calcium (which is about the level you should be keeping) balances out to just over 8 dKH in alkalinity - but I don't recommend that most people try to maintain alkalinity "that low". The main reason is actually the very situation you are in - there is naturally so little alkalinity present in seawater** that a healthy coral population can bring alk. concentration down to dangerous levels pretty quickly. Over-saturating alkalinity to around 11 dKH or 4 meq/L is a common (and time-honored) practice to build a better margin of safety into your tank's chemistry. I'd say it's mostly of interest to farmers, but it's also true that your stony corals will grow faster at these higher saturation levels.
** 200 ppm alkalinity vs 420 ppm Ca and 1350 ppm Mg
P.S. Concerning alkalinity measurements: 1 meq/L = 2.8 dKH = 50 ppm ........so our ideals........ 4.0 meq/L = 11.2 dKH = 200 ppm
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