How to speed up a fallow period (no corals or inverts)

[vaguelyreeflike]

Hi reefers, I currently have a 125 FOWLR with ich and suspected flukes. The fish will be pulled asap and treated using copper, however for the big tank I would like to speed up the fallow as fast as possible.

I was considering a multi-faceted attack, by dropping salinity to 1.005, and raising temperature to 90f.

Do you think its probable that ich would survive past 5-7 days in these conditions? I know that the hyposalinity will kill flukes for sure.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi reefers, I currently have a 125 FOWLR with ich and suspected flukes. The fish will be pulled asap and treated using copper, however for the big tank I would like to speed up the fallow as fast as possible.

I was considering a multi-faceted attack, by dropping salinity to 1.005, and raising temperature to 90f.

Do you think its probable that ich would survive past 5-7 days in these conditions? I know that the hyposalinity will kill flukes for sure.

You can decrease time but speeding up defeats the purpose of fallow periods. Mainly with velvet, You can decrease a week, maybe two. 82 degrees is sufficient as going to very high temps, ive seen in the past soften silicone seals
Hyposalinity is an alternative to copper and calls for at least a 30 day period

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Thank you for the info!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi reefers, I currently have a 125 FOWLR with ich and suspected flukes. The fish will be pulled asap and treated using copper, however for the big tank I would like to speed up the fallow as fast as possible.

I was considering a multi-faceted attack, by dropping salinity to 1.005, and raising temperature to 90f.

Do you think its probable that ich would survive past 5-7 days in these conditions? I know that the hyposalinity will kill flukes for sure.

The shortest time for fluke falllow periods and no fish that I have in my references is 12 days. Hypo doesn’t kill Neobenedenia fluke eggs, so you need to go past their viability period which is apparently 8 days plus 4 for safety.

I used to run fallow at high temperatures for 30 days for ich, but I never tried combining that with hypo, so I don’t know if that would shorten the period.

You would need to be 100% certain that it wasn’t velvet (Amyloodinium) because that loves high temperature and lower salinity.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi reefers, I currently have a 125 FOWLR with ich and suspected flukes. The fish will be pulled asap and treated using copper, however for the big tank I would like to speed up the fallow as fast as possible.

I was considering a multi-faceted attack, by dropping salinity to 1.005, and raising temperature to 90f.

Do you think its probable that ich would survive past 5-7 days in these conditions? I know that the hyposalinity will kill flukes for sure.

I do not think this is a good idea - first, bacterial overgrowth may occur. Second, Bacterial death may occur. Third if you have any inverts they may not survive. In any case, the treatment for ich is 30 days of copper - then followed by 2 doses of prazipro 8 days apart - and then many do an observation period - so there doesn't seem to be a reason to 'speed up' the fallow period. Most importantly, it probably wouldn't work, even for Ich - and velvet does better in hypo salinity (in case thats playing a role). I definitely get your reasoning - but since you asked I would say 'no'. EDIT - Sorry for repeating some of @Jay Hemdal 's advice - I didn't see it before I posted

 

[moretor1]

Large uv bulb in the display tank running 24/7 would do it imo

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Large uv bulb in the display tank running 24/7 would do it imo

The trouble is, the fallow period is designed to "wait out" the tomont ("egg") stage rests on the tank floor and are never exposed to the UV light.

 

[moretor1]

The trouble is, the fallow period is designed to "wait out" the tomont ("egg") stage rests on the tank floor and are never exposed to the UV light.

by tank floor do you mean the surface of the sand or imbedded within?

imbedded i understand why it wouldnt work but if anything wouldnt the egg stage be especially vulnerable to uv if it isnt ever exposed to it?

When i say large UV light i mean an exposed bulb in a glass/acrylic tube shining all over the tank, not a green killing machine

 

[Jay Hemdal]

by tank floor do you mean the surface of the sand or imbedded within?

imbedded i understand why it wouldnt work but if anything wouldnt the egg stage be especially vulnerable to uv if it isnt ever exposed to it?

When i say large UV light i mean an exposed bulb in a glass/acrylic tube shining all over the tank, not a green killing machine

UV sterilizers must be encased in an opaque tube for human safety, you should not expose a tank to a bare bulb because you wound then need to shield your eyes.

Normal wattage UV bulbs also cannot kill tomonts - they are too large. The theront/tomite stage (free swimming) can pass through a UV unit and be killed if the dose is high enough. However, most hobbyist units don’t have the power to even kill the free swimming stage.

 

[moretor1]

UV sterilizers must be encased in an opaque tube for human safety, you should not expose a tank to a bare bulb because you wound then need to shield your eyes.

Normal wattage UV bulbs also cannot kill tomonts - they are too large. The theront/tomite stage (free swimming) can pass through a UV unit and be killed if the dose is high enough. However, most hobbyist units don’t have the power to even kill the free swimming stage.

Wrap the tank in reflective tape or foil and get a couple high powered germicide lamps or uv curing lamps

My estimate would be ~5watt/g for traditional mercury lamps (high powered uv leds are in the thousands)

don't stare into the lamps unless you like nuking your eyes but this is true for most lights in the hobby

 

[MnFish1]

Wrap the tank in reflective tape or foil and get a couple high powered germicide lamps or uv curing lamps

My estimate would be ~5watt/g for traditional mercury lamps (high powered uv leds are in the thousands)

don't stare into the lamps unless you like nuking your eyes but this is true for most lights in the hobby

No - I don't think it's true. And - the distance from the source highly correlates with effectiveness (i.e. the shorter the distance)

 

[William Chiavetta]

The shortest time for fluke falllow periods and no fish that I have in my references is 12 days. Hypo doesn’t kill Neobenedenia fluke eggs, so you need to go past their viability period which is apparently 8 days plus 4 for safety.

I used to run fallow at high temperatures for 30 days for ich, but I never tried combining that with hypo, so I don’t know if that would shorten the period.

You would need to be 100% certain that it wasn’t velvet (Amyloodinium) because that loves high temperature and lower salinity.

since it seems you're really good with this stuff all my fish were moved out of my tank due to ich 22 days ago and it has been at 80 the whole time. Is there any way I can speed up the fallow process with an expected date for it to be ich free.
Edit: No corals or inverts

 

[moretor1]

No - I don't think it's true. And - the distance from the source highly correlates with effectiveness (i.e. the shorter the distance)

wouldn't dropping 5-8 of these into your display work?

Amazon.com

I use the 5w version in my return pump chamber

 

[Jay Hemdal]

since it seems you're really good with this stuff all my fish were moved out of my tank due to ich 22 days ago and it has been at 80 the whole time. Is there any way I can speed up the fallow process with an expected date for it to be ich free.
Edit: No corals or inverts

The shortest I ever recommend is 45 days at 81 f. That discussion is here:

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Wrap the tank in reflective tape or foil and get a couple high powered germicide lamps or uv curing lamps

My estimate would be ~5watt/g for traditional mercury lamps (high powered uv leds are in the thousands)

don't stare into the lamps unless you like nuking your eyes but this is true for most lights in the hobby

I wouldn’t suggest anyone do that without careful thought - I’ve created burn spots on acrylic tanks with video stand lights. You also don’t want to guess at the UV dose. Even the tiny tomites/theronts require a dose of 185,000 uw/s/cm2. The dose of tomonts hasn't even been calculated.

Here is some discussion:

Finally, Cryptocaryon UV dosage data

Screenshots because I don't want to deal with removing watermarks. Values are in the range previously guesstimated. One interesting tidbit though: Another important finding was that the theronts exposed to UV doses lower than the minimum lethal dose also lost their ability to infect fish...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[tbaum101]

Disregard this post. Tried to post on a different thread and got this one. Deleted comments but still have to comment. Sorry...

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

The shortest time for fluke falllow periods and no fish that I have in my references is 12 days. Hypo doesn’t kill Neobenedenia fluke eggs, so you need to go past their viability period which is apparently 8 days plus 4 for safety.

I used to run fallow at high temperatures for 30 days for ich, but I never tried combining that with hypo, so I don’t know if that would shorten the period.

You would need to be 100% certain that it wasn’t velvet (Amyloodinium) because that loves high temperature and lower salinity.

Okay so my current plan is to fallow for the full 30-45 days, however I will still be dropping salinity and raising temperature just because it’s clear there is at least two different parasites in the tank (ich and unknown species of flukes, they are large enough to see on the fish), and I’d love to get this tank “sterilized” anyways.

I have a new question, if I move the starfish and macroalgae from this tank into my other system that is fallowing (since 05/24), will I have to reset the fallow period on the older system? Or would it be safe to just continue the period.

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

The shortest time for fluke falllow periods and no fish that I have in my references is 12 days. Hypo doesn’t kill Neobenedenia fluke eggs, so you need to go past their viability period which is apparently 8 days plus 4 for safety.

I used to run fallow at high temperatures for 30 days for ich, but I never tried combining that with hypo, so I don’t know if that would shorten the period.

You would need to be 100% certain that it wasn’t velvet (Amyloodinium) because that loves high temperature and lower salinity.

Also, thank you for all of the information you have provided! As usual it is very helpful and appreciated