How to Quarantine

[Art2249]

After the copper treatment do I need to remove the copper first? Or can I take the fish and acclimate them right away?

 

[VJV]

There are different ways to treat with copper, each has its benefits and downsides.

After treating with copper you could 1) move straight into tank; 2) remove the copper from the QT tank (water changes plus carbon) and observe for a period of time before moving 3) remove from QT into a 2nd sterile QT to observe.

This last is by far the best given even if you treat with copper for 4 or even 6 weeks there is still a chance that a Tomont stays encrusted for up to 10 weeks only then releasing its spores into the water (which will not have any copper in), and re attach to the fish. This I believe, is the source of the myth that “ich is always present in our systems”.

To this I prefer to take the fish out of the QT at full therapeutic levels and place it into the main tank. If the fish remains in copper for more than 9 days any Theronts that are released into the water should be killed by the copper concentration before reaching the host and Trophonts should not stay attached for more than 7 days to your fish. So during this period all Trophonts should have detached and died and any free swimming Theronts killed before attaching.


As such, removing the fish from your treatment tank after 9 to 14 days (depending on how “sure” you want to be) and placing it in a different tank for observation will be your safest bet. And the other huge advantage of this is that you only keep your fish in toxic copper for two weeks instead of 4-6, aside from actually being more effective.

I do not have a second observation tank so I tend to move the fish straight into the main display after 14 days at full therapeutic level. I believe the risks are fairly low, and actually lower than treating for 4 weeks and than observe the fish in the same QT for a couple of weeks more.

My protocol is the following:

- week 1 - acclimation to get the fish eating
- week 2 - Prazi pro
- week 3 - 70% water change and second round of Prazi.
- week 4 through 6 - observation
- week 7 - raise copper levels 1/7th per day
- week 8-9 - fish in copper than straight into display

You obviously need to make sure the parameters are as close as possible to your main tank otherwise you will need to obviously acclimate.

If you want to be absolutely paranoid (as you drip acclimate the fish with tank water the copper levels will naturally decrease. If for some reason the net you used to scoop the fish also caught a Tomont by accident which happens to hatch during that exact time, you could have your fish infected just before adding to the main display) for the acclimation process remove a gallon or two from the main tank into a bucket, add copper to that bucket to get it to therapeutic levels and than drip this water to acclimate your fish to your main tank parameters.

I guess you were expecting a simpler reply [emoji39]

 

[Art2249]

No that makes sense. Ive had these fish for a long time and never seen ich . They've been under copper 2 weeks now. I dont have another tank to move into except the display. Do I still need to go 30 days? under copper

 

[VJV]

No that makes sense. Ive had these fish for a long time and never seen ich . They've been under copper 2 weeks now. I dont have another tank to move into except the display. Do I still need to go 30 days? under copper

You will hear different recommendations. To me the 30 days are not required and do not guarantee additional safety given Tomonts may remain encysted for longer and re infect the fish.

If you have had them for 14 days at therapeutic level (if you did water changes you should have doses the new water with copper before adding to the tank, otherwise during that bread moment where you are adding the new water the levels drop below therapeautic and the clock re starts)I would say you should be good to go.

 

[Art2249]

You will hear different recommendations. To me the 30 days are not required and do not guarantee additional safety given Tomonts may remain encysted for longer and re infect the fish.

If you have had them for 14 days at therapeutic level (if you did water changes you should have doses the new water with copper before adding to the tank, otherwise during that bread moment where you are adding the new water the levels drop below therapeautic and the clock re starts)I would say you should be good to go.

OK you talked me into it. My display has been 4 months without fish! Ive been dosing nitrate and phosphate. I really really want to see how the fish like their new digs!

 

[VJV]

How long have you had them in QT? Sorry if I missed it. Also, I presume you have already treated for flukes.

 

[Art2249]

How long have you had them in QT? Sorry if I missed it. Also, I presume you have already treated for flukes.

Yes I did the prazi. I reached copper .055 16 days ago and tested every day with hanna checker. Anywy its a done deal now. Fish are in the display and seem happy .
Ive had these fish over 5 months in qt before I treated them .

 

[Van Wertein]

@Humblefish I ran a diamond goby and a Melanrus wrasse through the TTM method. Now they are in a observation tank. How long should I observe for velvet?Can a fish be in a velvet system (lfs) and avoid the parasite? Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

I can tell you this much... Gobies and wrasse are going to be amongst the top of the list for fish that can harbor a parasite without symptoms.

TTM is not likely to erradicate velvet anyway. You would need copper or CP. Since you have a wrasse I'd choose copper.

 

[Van Wertein]

I can tell you this much... Gobies and wrasse are going to be amongst the top of the list for fish that can harbor a parasite without symptoms.

TTM is not likely to erradicate velvet anyway. You would need copper or CP. Since you have a wrasse I'd choose copper.

So they can harbor the parasite without showing symptoms for a long while or? And l've read copper is hard on wrasse, that's why I avoided Cupramine to begin with

 

[Smite]

I'm currently doing a reef rally dip at 1 tsp per gallon. Salinity and temp matched. Currently has a airstone and heater in the tank. Mixed the reef rally in a for a few minutes. Kinda freaked me out, both fire fish and hawkfish were swimming and gulping at the surface, they've since gone down at the bottom. The kole tang is at the bottom. They move when I move the heater around but I have a large airstone in there and its hard to see the bottom of the blue bucket. Was this just "shock" from being caught?

They've completed their CP treatment and the 2 doses of general cure per packet instructions prior to this. I've never used general cure, usually use prazipro, and so this bath was just to ensure no gill flukes made it to the new tank.

The initial reaction has me a little worried. Have most had great success with general cure? I measured my water volume in QT exactly, 58g so I added 6 packages both times.

Any experience with fish having this reaction to Reef Rally?

The water was mixed over night in my mixing station and stable. Aeration for an hour was more just making sure the heater was functioning properly.

 

[User]

Ok- picked up a couple of short spine purple urchins today, drip acclimated for 2 hours to match salinity, then rinsed 5 times in a plastic colander with 1/2 gallon nsw each time.

They have a bunch of sand particles stuck to their feet. Are they good to go into the DT after the rinses I’ve already done, or do they need to be in QT until the ‘shed’ the sand particles?

Any advice? Thanks

 

[User]

So they can harbor the parasite without showing symptoms for a long while or? And l've read copper is hard on wrasse, that's why I avoided Cupramine to begin with

Wrasses have become easier now people are using the Hanna checker and not overdosing like they used to. As far as I know, most ‘sensitive’ species are sensitive to overdosed copper, not copper *per se*

 

[Biggestfish]

Looks like some recommendations have changed. I read and followed the start of the thread sticky. After Ich appeared on 3 of my fish. I bought and set up two 40 gal hospital tanks. I tore apart my 245 tank to net all fish and treated them with copper for 30 days. After all copper was out I treated all fish with GC per the box instructions. Did a freshwater dip on a few fish that definitely had flukes before hand. There where also a lot of dead flukes in the bottom of the hospital tank during GC treatment. Did another water change and added carbon. Should I treat all fish with a antibiotic? Another round of GC ? ...since there where so many dead flukes and white stringy pop. Tank will be empty till DEC 19 anyway. My Desjardinii developed HLLE from the copper. Really sucks. He’s eaten like a pig throughout the whole process. PE pellets and seaweed extreme soaked in selcon. Did I miss anything in my treatment?

 

[dwest]

Looks like some recommendations have changed. I read and followed the start of the thread sticky. After Ich appeared on 3 of my fish. I bought and set up two 40 gal hospital tanks. I tore apart my 245 tank to net all fish and treated them with copper for 30 days. After all copper was out I treated all fish with GC per the box instructions. Did a freshwater dip on a few fish that definitely had flukes before hand. There where also a lot of dead flukes in the bottom of the hospital tank during GC treatment. Did another water change and added carbon. Should I treat all fish with a antibiotic? Another round of GC ? ...since there where so many dead flukes and white stringy pop. Tank will be empty till DEC 19 anyway. My Desjardinii developed HLLE from the copper. Really sucks. He’s eaten like a pig throughout the whole process. PE pellets and seaweed extreme soaked in selcon. Did I miss anything in my treatment?

I would do a second round of gc and feed food that has been mixed with gc and focus to eliminate the cause of stringy poop. I would only add antibiotics if there are external symptoms that would indicate a need.

 

[VJV]

Looks like some recommendations have changed. I read and followed the start of the thread sticky. After Ich appeared on 3 of my fish. I bought and set up two 40 gal hospital tanks. I tore apart my 245 tank to net all fish and treated them with copper for 30 days. After all copper was out I treated all fish with GC per the box instructions. Did a freshwater dip on a few fish that definitely had flukes before hand. There where also a lot of dead flukes in the bottom of the hospital tank during GC treatment. Did another water change and added carbon. Should I treat all fish with a antibiotic? Another round of GC ? ...since there where so many dead flukes and white stringy pop. Tank will be empty till DEC 19 anyway. My Desjardinii developed HLLE from the copper. Really sucks. He’s eaten like a pig throughout the whole process. PE pellets and seaweed extreme soaked in selcon. Did I miss anything in my treatment?

I never used GC but always had success using Prazipro for flukes.

 

[Biggestfish]

dwest..I was thinking it couldn’t hurt. I’ll do a 50% water change in a few days and start it. Wouldn’t the pellets have GC in them from the water already? I just don’t want to ever have to net all the fish out again. Could the antibiotics hurt anything if I just treated all fish ?

 

[Biggestfish]

I never used GC but always had success using Prazipro for flukes.

I also have prazipro but General cure has the same medicine plus another for intestinal worms if I read it right.

 

[dwest]

dwest..I was thinking it couldn’t hurt. I’ll do a 50% water change in a few days and start it. Wouldn’t the pellets have GC in them from the water already? I just don’t want to ever have to net all the fish out again. Could the antibiotics hurt anything if I just treated all fish ?

The meds will be much more effective against internal pathogens with food. I was hesitant to try this, but recently have and it worked great and is easy. One scoop of focus ( provided in bottle), with an equivalent amount of gc, mixed with a tablespoon of food. You can keep it refrigerated several days if needed. I would not do antibiotics unless needed. All meds have their downsides. I would not use anything unnecessary. Let’s see if @HotRocks has any comments.

 

[HotRocks]

The meds will be much more effective against internal pathogens with food. I was hesitant to try this, but recently have and it worked great and is easy. One scoop of focus ( provided in bottle), with an equivalent amount of gc, mixed with a tablespoon of food. You can keep it refrigerated several days if needed. I would not do antibiotics unless needed. All meds have their downsides. I would not use anything unnecessary. Let’s see if @HotRocks has any comments.

I agree with everything here^^^. You need to mix GC + Focus with food to treat intestinal parasites/worms. Treat for at least 14 days. You can treat for 21 days if still seeing white stringy poop at the 14 day mark.

I also agree antibiotics are not necessary unless you have symptoms of an infection.