How often to put copepods into tank for mandarin goby?

[Reef Puncher]

So i am growing out apoc pods in a culture 5 gallon tank. But they reproduce kinda slowish. I can only harvest like once every 10 days and i take out about half of them and put them in my tank. I then buy tigger pods from the LFS every once in a while too. Mandarin is still alive and well 6 months later so i know its working. But is it necessary for me to buy these tigger pods or can i just put in my own apoc i am culturing only, skip tiggers, and use the 50% harvest every 10 days? is that enough?
Or maybe instead of 50% harvest every 10 days, do like 10% harvest every 6 days.

What does everyone else do?

 

[PotatoPig]

Taking a step back: How big is your tank, do you have a refugium, and what other inhabitants do you have in there?

Also, Tigger pods aren’t the best for mandarins, they swim in the water column a lot more and are targeted by most planktivore fish, while mandarins mostly hunt around on the rocks. A mandarin will eat a tigger pod if they come across it, but due to behavior patterns they’ll come across relatively few of them.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Taking a step back: How big is your tank, do you have a refugium, and what other inhabitants do you have in there?

Also, Tigger pods aren’t the best for mandarins, they swim in the water column a lot more and are targeted by most planktivore fish, while mandarins mostly hunt around on the rocks. A mandarin will eat a tigger pod if they come across it, but due to behavior patterns they’ll come across relatively few of them.

75gallon. the thing is, either my tank is NOT habitable to them, because at night i hold up a flashlight and i dont really see em on the glass or perhaps i think he eats em too fast. not sure. but they dont propogate in my tank.

 

[DrMMI]

I've purchased pods from algaebarn and add them to my sumo after lights off. I just leave the return pump off for about an hour so they have time to get into the rocks and chaeto I keep in my refugium. The best thing I did though was buy chaeto from my LFS. A few weeks after doing that, I had amphipods, copepods, and mysid shrimp swimming all over my sump and display.

 

[PotatoPig]

75gallon. the thing is, either my tank is NOT habitable to them, because at night i hold up a flashlight and i dont really see em on the glass or perhaps i think he eats em too fast. not sure. but they dont propogate in my tank.

For tigger pods - I used to culture these, in my experience they just don’t survive in reef tanks. They’re easy to hunt and virtually all planktivores go for them, so wipe them out, and even with a refugium it seems the water temps are higher than they like to reproduce. I’d add large quantities (probably equivalent to about 5 store bottles a time) every few days and they’d always be gone within ~48 hours and they never colonized.

Tisbe pods do colonize, but they’re tiny so are very hard to see. They also hang out on rocks and are too small for a lot of other planktivores to go for, so are good for mandarins. Add a bottle, if they’re going to colonize that’ll be enough.

Wild pods also come in on live rock, corals, and crabs/snails/etc, these will also include some that will colonize.

If you have a refugium, or a space in the dump you can provide one, that’ll also help boost your micro critter population.

If you want to see them on the glass wait until after dark, turn room lights out, and turn the power heads off, let everything settle for 10 mins or so and then go looking for them with the flashlight. Some may also be visible in the flashlight light beam, and will swim towards it if you wait a bit.

 

[littlebeard]

There are a lot of strategies on these fish. Having a refugium is great as well as dosing phyto.

After the initial pod add I haven't added more. I do however have captive bred mandarins that eat pellets as well as dose a ton of phytoplankton. That tank also runs a lot dirtier.

 

[Reef Puncher]

For tigger pods - I used to culture these, in my experience they just don’t survive in reef tanks. They’re easy to hunt and virtually all planktivores go for them, so wipe them out, and even with a refugium it seems the water temps are higher than they like to reproduce. I’d add large quantities (probably equivalent to about 5 store bottles a time) every few days and they’d always be gone within ~48 hours and they never colonized.

Tisbe pods do colonize, but they’re tiny so are very hard to see. They also hang out on rocks and are too small for a lot of other planktivores to go for, so are good for mandarins. Add a bottle, if they’re going to colonize that’ll be enough.

Wild pods also come in on live rock, corals, and crabs/snails/etc, these will also include some that will colonize.

If you have a refugium, or a space in the dump you can provide one, that’ll also help boost your micro critter population.

If you want to see them on the glass wait until after dark, turn room lights out, and turn the power heads off, let everything settle for 10 mins or so and then go looking for them with the flashlight. Some may also be visible in the flashlight light beam, and will swim towards it if you wait a bit.

ahh i have tried that but i never turned the powerheads off. tisbe and apoc are so tiny. but ill give it another go to see if i see any. i def know there is no surviving tiggers. i would see them.

 

[anizato]

hey what's up?
I also have a mandarin and I have two separate cultures. one for tiger pods and the other for apex pods. one gallon container with a spout and those inserts that are used for infusing (it's like a plastic cup with holes that goes in the middle of the jug hanging from the top of the jug), the spout allows it so they can burrow and reproduce at the bottom of the jug and in the ceramic media, and each with a bubbler connected to the same air pump. So when you do collect from the spout, your water has is just copepods and water, hardly any waste because it is settled at the bottom and is not stirred as you pour it into a collection cup.
I also placed some ceramic media in a mesh bag in the "infuser", i feed live phyto when the water goes clear, this indicates a healthy culture.
I use the mesh from reef nutrition for harvesting. it catches every stage of life, but phyto and 95% of waste passes through.

Tigger pods reproduce so well and fast in that size container I have been able to harvest twice a month with no problems or strain in their numbers. They have lots of babies every other day.
Apex pods on the other hand, need to be harvested much slower, with more space in between harvests, maybe once every 7-8 weeks. I have found they reproduce MUCH slower, I don't know if it is for the lack of heater in the water, I will try a miniature heater at the next cleanout to confirm if this temperature thing makes a difference, but I think their lifecycles are different, and this is just how it is.
You can't see Apex pods with your naked eye, only the adults in the final stages, and even those are hard to see with the naked eye. So that is why I wait so long to harvest because I gauge it by how many adults I see swimming around.
So when I collect Apex pods, the ony way for me to tell I actually collected any, is putting the rinsed sieve over a light, blind myself in the process, and stare directly at the light while trying to see movement across the surface of the mesh. No Pain No ...pods! LOL

 

[Reef Puncher]

hey what's up?
I also have a mandarin and I have two separate cultures. one for tiger pods and the other for apex pods. one gallon container with a spout and those inserts that are used for infusing (it's like a plastic cup with holes that goes in the middle of the jug hanging from the top of the jug), the spout allows it so they can burrow and reproduce at the bottom of the jug and in the ceramic media, and each with a bubbler connected to the same air pump. So when you do collect from the spout, your water has is just copepods and water, hardly any waste because it is settled at the bottom and is not stirred as you pour it into a collection cup.
I also placed some ceramic media in a mesh bag in the "infuser", i feed live phyto when the water goes clear, this indicates a healthy culture.
I use the mesh from reef nutrition for harvesting. it catches every stage of life, but phyto and 95% of waste passes through.

Tigger pods reproduce so well and fast in that size container I have been able to harvest twice a month with no problems or strain in their numbers. They have lots of babies every other day.
Apex pods on the other hand, need to be harvested much slower, with more space in between harvests, maybe once every 7-8 weeks. I have found they reproduce MUCH slower, I don't know if it is for the lack of heater in the water, I will try a miniature heater at the next cleanout to confirm if this temperature thing makes a difference, but I think their lifecycles are different, and this is just how it is.
You can't see Apex pods with your naked eye, only the adults in the final stages, and even those are hard to see with the naked eye. So that is why I wait so long to harvest because I gauge it by how many adults I see swimming around.
So when I collect Apex pods, the ony way for me to tell I actually collected any, is putting the rinsed sieve over a light, blind myself in the process, and stare directly at the light while trying to see movement across the surface of the mesh. No Pain No ...pods! LOL

do you have a video or pics of your setup?

 

[anizato]

in the second pic you can see the incredible amount of pods i had before adding the mandarin and before I added any pods from my culture. Culture was started in July 2024, both still running strong.

 

[Reef Puncher]

in the second pic you can see the incredible amount of pods i had before adding the mandarin and before I added any pods from my culture. Culture was started in July 2024, both still running strong.

dang i cant get them to breed in my display. i can get them reproducing in my culture, but not in my main tank. no idea why. figured the mandarin and fish were eating them faster than they can reproduce but that was always just a guess.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Honestly I would expect a 75 to be more than enough to feed a single Mandarin.

I have a 60B and I keep a Mandarin...she is FAT. Like obese. I have wall to wall rockwork and add Tibse and Apoclyps pods every couple of months.

Can you post a pic of what the 75 looks like? I'd like to see how much rockwork you have.

 

[jrill]

Never. I have a biota mandarin for three years who only get frozen or pellets

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I think the absence of a substantial copepod population is evidence that the mandarin is eating them all. That would be most likely. This sounds like expensive and tedious work just to maintain a particular fish imo.

 

[code4]

I now have 2 Biota mandarins. They are cute. But I have had several others for many years. The females are smaller and therefore eat slightly less. I went through most of your pain with my first one. Never sure if he was eating. Then discovered Paul B's feeder. Best thing ever. I am currently using it with my tiny Biota mandarins to supplement the frozen and pellet food. Growing quickly they are. And to my utter delight out of the blue I noticed my first mandarin eating frozen food and pellet. I never chased him around and squirted food into his face. Patience is needed for these fish. Paul B's feeder and hatching live brine shrimp daily will ensure your mandarin is eating well. And will allow you to get pods growing. I used small rock piles to give the pods places to hide and multiply as well. In my opinion most mandarins will eat frozen food along with live food. It just takes time for them to realize it is food. My first one would come up and eat it right out of the baster I fed the tank with. Had him for about 10 years.

Shelley

 

[ahosel10]

Whiteworms. Very easy.

 

[DaJMasta]

If your 75 is a mature tank with a normal amount of rockwork and a sand bed, the supplemental copepods may not be necessary, especially if you feed the tank a bit of phyto a few times a week. I think around that size is the threshold where I think they can start producing enough copepods to keep one alive, at least when fully seasoned, and generally the mandarins will get tiny bits of whatever else you feed even before they recognize it as food.

Training a mandarin onto prepared foods isn't so difficult, and while if yours is doing well and is established I wouldn't suggest just trying it out of the blue, but you may find that if you turn off the pumps, feed the tank, and do that for a few consecutive days, your mandarin may already know that is food.

As for culturing copepods, tigriopus should actually be good for them as they are a benthic species, tisbe as well. Apocyclops copepods are pleagic and while a mandarin could eat them, I don't think it's terribly likely they actually do in any quantity.

In my experience, it's also helpful to run cultures mostly clear. Apocyclops is somewhat more tolerant of a culture darkened with phyto (and for me, has been quite productive, probably more than others), but in the longer term, I've had the best results with aiming for a clear culture water with only a slight green tint when fed. I harvest my cultures daily, probably 5-10% each day, and replace the lost water with some new phyto and some fresh saltwater (an eyeballed amount that varies based on color, but maybe 1 phyto to 6-8 water).

 

[anizato]

dang i cant get them to breed in my display. i can get them reproducing in my culture, but not in my main tank. no idea why. figured the mandarin and fish were eating them faster than they can reproduce but that was always just a guess.

well the tigger pods will never reproduce in your tank, they are cold water pods and will not thrive in the reef. So breed them with intention to be fed for the 30 minuites without pump.
the apex and tisbe pods are the ones that successfully reproduce in the tank. apex pods are what you see on the glass, every single spec is an adult, you can't see the babies with the naked eye.
Just look at the fish, does it look fat? Can you see the ribs?

PaulB's feeder or THIS FEEDER will do wonders. Don't forget to hatch baby brine shrimp every day as well. I also add frozen for the rest of the tank, with CALANUS (red frozen pods) and the mandarin is slowly understanding that is also food. So, like mentioned before by others, patience is key. You just have to supply many options.

I think the absence of a substantial copepod population is evidence that the mandarin is eating them all. That would be most likely. This sounds like expensive and tedious work just to maintain a particular fish imo.

similar to how people have small dogs and take them everywhere or how people build their homes around their cats. we do it because we love it. and if you love something it is not hard work.

 

[Reeferbadness]

I have a Mandarin Goby going on 5 years now. I hardly ever add new pods. I was pretty clueless when i added him to my 6 month old mixed reef 180g tank but luckily the live rock i added to the tank must have come with plenty of pods. I've added some very sporadically but he is still very healthy and doing great. I think the key is to establish a self sustainable pod population in your tank. I have a refugium so that probably helps as well.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

well the tigger pods will never reproduce in your tank, they are cold water pods and will not thrive in the reef. So breed them with intention to be fed for the 30 minuites without pump.
the apex and tisbe pods are the ones that successfully reproduce in the tank. apex pods are what you see on the glass, every single spec is an adult, you can't see the babies with the naked eye.
Just look at the fish, does it look fat? Can you see the ribs?

PaulB's feeder or THIS FEEDER will do wonders. Don't forget to hatch baby brine shrimp every day as well. I also add frozen for the rest of the tank, with CALANUS (red frozen pods) and the mandarin is slowly understanding that is also food. So, like mentioned before by others, patience is key. You just have to supply many options.


similar to how people have small dogs and take them everywhere or how people build their homes around their cats. we do it because we love it. and if you love something it is not hard work.

If it brings you joy, go for it. I didnt mean to imply you should stop.