How much does air affect Kalkwasser potency?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you think a 55-g container that could be sealed would be too large a vat of Kalk to retain it's potency over say, a month?

Nope. I used 3 x 44 gallon Brute containers, and they do not lose potency over a month (when closed and unstirred):

The Degradation of Limewater in Air - Reefkeeping.com

Figure 2. The conductivity of the limewater in my dosing reservoir as a function of time.

A solution that is less than saturated with lime will have a conductivity less than 10.3 mS/cm. I use such a solution to dose my aquarium, where I do not need to replace all evaporated water with saturated limewater. Depending on the time of year, and hence on the evaporation rate, I increase or decrease the amount of lime added to maintain appropriate levels. This March and April (2003), I monitored the conductivity in the limewater that I dosed. Figure 2 shows the change in conductivity of the water in the 44-gallon trashcan that I use for dosing. Over the 3 weeks of the test, the conductivity did not significantly drop from the initial value of 3.8 mS/cm. Over the years, I have repeated this experiment a number of times at different initial conductivities, and have always obtained the same result: no significant degradation.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Nope. I used 3 x 44 gallon Brute containers, and they do not lose potency over a month (when closed and unstirred):

The Degradation of Limewater in Air - Reefkeeping.com

Figure 2. The conductivity of the limewater in my dosing reservoir as a function of time.

A solution that is less than saturated with lime will have a conductivity less than 10.3 mS/cm. I use such a solution to dose my aquarium, where I do not need to replace all evaporated water with saturated limewater. Depending on the time of year, and hence on the evaporation rate, I increase or decrease the amount of lime added to maintain appropriate levels. This March and April (2003), I monitored the conductivity in the limewater that I dosed. Figure 2 shows the change in conductivity of the water in the 44-gallon trashcan that I use for dosing. Over the 3 weeks of the test, the conductivity did not significantly drop from the initial value of 3.8 mS/cm. Over the years, I have repeated this experiment a number of times at different initial conductivities, and have always obtained the same result: no significant degradation.

Excellent! Now I just need to find the right container. Thanks!

 

[DeputyDog95]

Curious... If you only dose Kalk, what do you do for trace elements, Randy?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Curious... If you only dose Kalk, what do you do for trace elements, Randy?

the least recognized source: foods.

I also did 1% daily water changes, and after a decade or so, I began once a week dosing of iron and silicate.

I tried commercial concoctions a few times but noticed no apparent change.

 

[DeputyDog95]

the least recognized source: foods.

I also did 1% daily water changes, and after a decade or so, I began once a week dosing of iron and silicate.

I tried commercial concoctions a few times but noticed no apparent change.

Interesting. I'm dosing the trace colors as prescribed and feed the tank heavily, and still struggle with these elements and keeping nutrients up.

 

[Garf]

Interesting. I'm dosing the trace colors as prescribed and feed the tank heavily, and still struggle with these elements and keeping nutrients up.

Here’s a link from over 10 years ago about foods. The scientific link may not work but I think I extracted the pertinent info in this thread;

Elements in Foods

Thought this might be useful; http://web.archive.org/web/20010720071031/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/data/foods.asp Table V Elements or Ions Present Percent of the Sample

algaescrubber.net

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here’s my analysis from a number of years ago. Some elements were potentially below natural levels, but it’s a more complicated question whether that was a real issue.

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

For example:

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Here’s a link from over 10 years ago about foods. The scientific link may not work but I think I extracted the pertinent info in this thread;

Elements in Foods

Thought this might be useful; http://web.archive.org/web/20010720071031/http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/data/foods.asp Table V Elements or Ions Present Percent of the Sample

algaescrubber.net

That was interesting. And I have both Formula 1 and 2 in my auto feeder, going off 5x a day (small amounts) to keep my fish fed and the nutrients around .06/5 respectively. Didn't realize how many trace elements were in the food. Which probably even after metabolized and excreted by the fish, probably end up to some degree in the water column.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Here’s my analysis from a number of years ago. Some elements were potentially below natural levels, but it’s a more complicated question whether that was a real issue.

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

For example:

Manganese (Mn). Triton can just barely detect the natural level of manganese (0.17 µg/L) since their LOD is 0.12 µg/L. Detecting none suggests it may be depleted, and is another possibility for dosing, but I have less confidence that this one is really seriously depleted since it is so close to the LOD. But Mn is biologically important and I will consider it.

That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome.

Happy reefing.

 

[Johnic]

Nope. I used 3 x 44 gallon Brute containers, and they do not lose potency over a month (when closed and unstirred):

The Degradation of Limewater in Air - Reefkeeping.com

Figure 2. The conductivity of the limewater in my dosing reservoir as a function of time.

A solution that is less than saturated with lime will have a conductivity less than 10.3 mS/cm. I use such a solution to dose my aquarium, where I do not need to replace all evaporated water with saturated limewater. Depending on the time of year, and hence on the evaporation rate, I increase or decrease the amount of lime added to maintain appropriate levels. This March and April (2003), I monitored the conductivity in the limewater that I dosed. Figure 2 shows the change in conductivity of the water in the 44-gallon trashcan that I use for dosing. Over the 3 weeks of the test, the conductivity did not significantly drop from the initial value of 3.8 mS/cm. Over the years, I have repeated this experiment a number of times at different initial conductivities, and have always obtained the same result: no significant degradation.

Question, I have a 10 gal Rubbermaid Brute trash can that I use to make and hold Kalk and dose 2000ml a day in equal parts which I estimate to be my evap rate.
My question, when I add the kalk and get about 10.3 mS.cm and Ph about 12.3 when I monitor the conductivity and it drops to lets say 8 over the weeks, should I add more klak to bring it up to 10.3 again ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Question, I have a 10 gal Rubbermaid Brute trash can that I use to make and hold Kalk and dose 2000ml a day in equal parts which I estimate to be my evap rate.
My question, when I add the kalk and get about 10.3 mS.cm and Ph about 12.3 when I monitor the conductivity and it drops to lets say 8 over the weeks, should I add more klak to bring it up to 10.3 again ?

8 mS/cm us still nearly 80% potent and may be plenty. I’d judge by whether there is a tank alk drop during that time to gauge needing replenishment..

 

[Johnic]

8 mS/cm us still nearly 80% potent and may be plenty. I’d judge by whether there is a tank alk drop during that time to gauge needing replenishment..

Got it...makes sense. I also dose two part which I would like to eliminate at some point. I have a conductivity meter arriving today that I would like to permanently mount to watch the mS/cm values throughout the weeks.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Question, I have a 10 gal Rubbermaid Brute trash can that I use to make and hold Kalk and dose 2000ml a day in equal parts which I estimate to be my evap rate.
My question, when I add the kalk and get about 10.3 mS.cm and Ph about 12.3 when I monitor the conductivity and it drops to lets say 8 over the weeks, should I add more klak to bring it up to 10.3 again ?

What do you mean by dosing the Kalk in equal parts? Are you simply dosing the Kalk, for example, once an hour 24x per day?

What are you using to measure the pH and conductivity of the Kalk?

 

[Johnic]

What do you mean by dosing the Kalk in equal parts? Are you simply dosing the Kalk, for example, once an hour 24x per day?

What are you using to measure the pH and conductivity of the Kalk?

Yes, I'm dosing the Kalk evenly throughout the day.

I'm using a "Apera" Conductivity pen that measure in Ms/cm

 

[DeputyDog95]

Yes, I'm dosing the Kalk evenly throughout the day.

I'm using a "Apera" Conductivity pen that measure in Ms/cm

I have an Apera pH probe. They make nice stuff.

What are you measuring the pH with? Both of my probes are calibrated to a range between 7 and 10, so I'm not sure how accurate they would be at 12...

 

[Johnic]

I have an Apera pH probe. They make nice stuff.

What are you measuring the pH with? Both of my probes are calibrated to a range between 7 and 10, so I'm not sure how accurate they would be at 12...

My Apera PH pen is measuring 12.5 but the Apera EC pen is measuring 8 ms/cm....I thought max saturation ms/cm should be 10.3 ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have an Apera pH probe. They make nice stuff.

What are you measuring the pH with? Both of my probes are calibrated to a range between 7 and 10, so I'm not sure how accurate they would be at 12...

Saturated calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser) is actually a suitable pH standard itself at pH 12.45:

https://www.reagecon.com/en-gb/reagecon-ph-12-45-at-25-c-calcium-hydroxide-usp11245.

 

[DeputyDog95]

My Apera PH pen is measuring 12.5 but the Apera EC pen is measuring 8 ms/cm....I thought max saturation ms/cm should be 10.3 ?

I guess I'll try my pen out and see how it reads.

I've been experimenting with the Two Little Fishes Kalk reactor and using it with a peristaltic pump at night (Ecotech Versa) to keep the pH from bottoming out below 8.3. Mixed success with that. I can keep the pH up, but I'm also elevating my Alk past the target at the same time.

I was asking in another thread about lowering my 2-part at night to adjust for the Kalk boost. I'm giving that a go and I'll experiment with reducing my two part by 33% while the Kalk is running from 8p to 8a and see what happens.

 

[DeputyDog95]

So, as posted previously, I'm new to Kalk dosing and have been experimenting a bit. I'm currently using a TLF Kalk Reactor with an Ecotech versa pump. I started out doing it out of a sealed 5g bucket, but that old quick refilled every few days.

In an effort to keep up with the potency of the Kalk, I've been checking the pH periodically, and it typically comes in at about 12.4. Which seems about right.

I just got the Apera conductivity pen that BRS uses and switched it to measure in MS.

The reading I got with my current solution in the reactor was around 4.5. Oddly enough I tested the pH yesterday, and it came at about 12.4 again. Regardless, 4.4 is way off considering the solution was crystal clear.

I just cleaned out the reactor, added a fresh cup of Kalk, mixed it a bit, and it tested out to about 8.8.

I guess it's good that I'm seeing a higher reading with fresh Kalk, but it is still below what it should be, which is 10, right?

Is it safe to assume you shouldn't check the conductivity until it fully clears? Which I assume is the point when the water has finally become fully saturated?