How fast can you cycle new tank with old stuff?

[Reesj]

I'm setting up a 180 gallon FOWLR setup. I have already put some bio media in my reef tank sump for few weeks. Also there are some padding I left in sump for about week. I'm hoping to use these as well as get few of my current reef tank mechanical filtration to jump start the process.

I also went to the beach and got about 20kg wet sand from there that been sitting in bucket for 3-4 days. I'm hoping to rinse them once with salt water and mix with some store bought sand.I filled up my tank with salt today and hoping to add all this tomorrow to the tank.
I'm hoping to put in 2 Clarki clowns to test the things out.
So how fast can I add these 2 initial fish you guys think?
Will it be ok if I do it next day after adding all the old bacteria stuff or would I need to wait a bit and put a bit of fish food 1st?

 

[brandon429]

I have a thread closed down we aren't allowed to post in that was written to answer just that question

in first:

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

answer: instant


no wait



skip cycle

I built a reef that is running 19 years using the method described in the thread we aren't allowed to use anymore.

every demo tank at any reef convention like reefstock is a skip cycle display, just like you can have, just like we made there for others.


no testing needed, in that thread we did not test people's cycle using API so they can stumble over the readings.

we predicted what cycles do when relocating rocks from one wet tank to another: they do nothing but take that ride. they remain active in the new tank and are unharmed.

no bottle bac, dont buy insurance bottle bac


that thread saves people money, we didn't tell them to buy bottle bacteria, we told them not to


if you want to skip cycle via filtration only/alone then placement, flow rate and efficiency schemes apply (where the biomedia is located...in a sump isn't the same as in a display, other factors) can we see the layout planned for the display in the new setup

 

[Garf]

would I need to wait a bit

With two clowns in a 180, I'd at least wait 'till the water is warm, lol.

 

[brandon429]

where is the rock coming from, for this tank


that was the key plan detail in my opinion. if you want to skip cycle via filtration only, using inert rocks, that's special and I'd recommend a custom plan ran right here for it he he. all our examples of reef skip cycles there was due to simply moving wet live rock from one tank to another, including from pet store to home. those are still skip cycle setups, just the same.


where's your rock coming from

 

[Reesj]

where is the rock coming from, for this tank


that was the key plan detail in my opinion. if you want to skip cycle via filtration only, using inert rocks, that's special and I'd recommend a custom plan ran right here for it he he. all our examples of reef skip cycles there was due to simply moving wet live rock from one tank to another, including from pet store to home. those are still skip cycle setups, just the same.


where's your rock coming from

The rocks are dry rocks. No bacteria in them.
But about 1kg of 5 year old mechanical filteration (ceramic ring+ ceramic bars ).
about 2 weeks in reef tank wool padding.
abou 2-3 week old 2kg on mechanical filteration (Ceramic, volcanic rock rings)
and 20kg sand from sea
PS: old means they been in my reef tank sump

 

[brandon429]

this got fun



that type of setup requires planning and is not a shoe in

for example

a healthy fish bioload up top, all white rocks, no bottle bac since we want a real challenge, is an inefficient setup because waste has to be bottlenecked down into the sump to get neutralized, and will swirl around in the display for lengthy times

vs a system designed with active surfaces in the display at the time of bioload into/which are the easy skip cycles above.

let's see a diagram scheme or some pics of the stuff you're working with. looking for piping design, contact areas/where the live surfaces will be in the water flow parts of this plan.

 

[brandon429]

that being said: how about u move over 20 pounds of pristine live rock, that's easy to find, in a perfectly placed elevated position in the new display which will carry any practical starting fish bioload we could ever want in reefing

how simple would it all be if we just used 20 lbs of live rock, cheap considering the costs of owning big reefs like that. it's so efficient

**however, that's a disease vector. what you're planning can also be used to set up a reef insulated from disease vectors, requiring no live rock moved over, and that's the best thread ever if so because lots of $ is on the line for the planning. can you use live rock a little

 

[Reesj]

that being said: how about u move over 20 pounds of pristine live rock, that's easy to find, in a perfectly placed elevated position in the new display which will carry any practical starting fish bioload we could ever want in reefing

how simple would it all be if we just used 20 lbs of live rock, cheap considering the costs of owning big reefs like that. it's so efficient

**however, that's a disease vector. what you're planning can also be used to set up a reef insulated from disease vectors, requiring no live rock moved over, and that's the best thread ever if so because lots of $ is on the line for the planning. can you use live rock a little

I had been slacking off on my reef tank( very busy and one every 2 weeks water change went to every 2 months) and it has goteen a bad case of hair algae. So I don't want to use anything in displayover tank over to my new system. Hense the reason i'm using only filter media in sump.

I'm hoping to move over all my fish over to the new system and not feed anything and see how hair algae holds0 up. Everthing elese failed to get hair algae off so far

 

[brandon429]

lets' see a pic of the new tank, and how the filter system will sit in it.

 

[brandon429]

there's a reason/strong case for still using your current rock though

you'd be surprised how starting fresh doesn't fix the algae issue/back in six mos

the rocks have ways of being cleaned which would make them aged, perfect for skip cycle transfer, without algae on them for a nice clean start/which then becomes a certain skip cycle

if you use white rocks, the expected uglies we see in white rock tanks are worse than cleaning your current rocks and moving over aged ones

you sure you want the double algae dinos headache of all new white rock? beating algae issues using the current rocks is how you fix the issue, not by exchange.

if you want to we sure can, just need to see the filter layout.

also know: one cheap bottle of fritz cycling bac put into the tank 3 days ahead of time with a ground up pinch of fish food would cycle the entire white rock system. do you want to shortcut the old school way and just use a $20 bottle of cycling bac to cheat skip cycle, or you still want to filter-only skip cycle

 

[brandon429]

if you buy refrigerated fritz cycling bac from a pet store, dosed to the size of your display, any fish you set in the tank are going to skip cycle for ammonia control. it's that easy to skip cycle with bottle bac nowadays. pet stores do this routinely, bottle bac skip cycling is safe and fast that's for sure. but it's for cost

if you want to make a bio-proof and use aged filters we for sure can. but we need a big filtration surface area, uncommon big, fast flow and good intake/output right in the planned display. not just hanging a HOB filter on it/that won't do.

 

[brandon429]

additional factors that apply between this thread and similar ones

how long would cycled media in the water loop take to cross-establish filter bacteria to other surfaces? 20 days

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

that shows if you take inert surfaces, put in the display then simply take cycled material and put it anywhere in the water loop of that new tank, by only that addition and + 20 days wait the system can carry a full reef as he did there.


so if you want to be bottle bac free in this job, and still win via calculated skip cycle using existing media, and you don't have to input all fish day 1 of your setup...simply make your new reef

get old filter material

put in a filter running water

wait 20 days, the whole tank is cycled via transmission casting of filter bacteria as was done there above.

quick summary of the above link: tuffloud set up a totally dry sand, dry rock, nothing else reef right next to his running reef tank.

he piped in only water directly out of the other tanks display, he filled his new tank up with all new saltwater matching salinity and temp of the old tank then turned on the circulation

this moved only things in the water from the old tank to the new, no other feed amounts were increased and no bottle bac was used.


in 20 days, the new tank was cycled by mere contact of water with the old tank / shatters the claim that reef tank water doesn't have filter bacteria. establishes a cursory timeline for contact time cycling expectations.

you could set up your tank a mere month alongside the new tank, running with clean new prepped water and dirty filter material from the current reef.

end of month, whole tank cycled. that easy, by calculation of time not by measuring any other factor in the cycle/tested by tuffloud.

where things get tricky is if you can't set up the new tank a month ahead of time to let it stew. buy the bottle bac is the easy/working way so easily that's for sure.

 

[Reesj]

additional factors that apply between this thread and similar ones

how long would cycled media in the water loop take to cross-establish filter bacteria to other surfaces? 20 days

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

that shows if you take inert surfaces, put in the display then simply take cycled material and put it anywhere in the water loop of that new tank, by only that addition and + 20 days wait the system can carry a full reef as he did there.


so if you want to be bottle bac free in this job, and still win via calculated skip cycle using existing media, and you don't have to input all fish day 1 of your setup...simply make your new reef

get old filter material

put in a filter running water

wait 20 days, the whole tank is cycled via transmission casting of filter bacteria as was done there above.

quick summary of the above link: tuffloud set up a totally dry sand, dry rock, nothing else reef right next to his running reef tank.

he piped in only water directly out of the other tanks display, he filled his new tank up with all new saltwater matching salinity and temp of the old tank then turned on the circulation

this moved only things in the water from the old tank to the new, no other feed amounts were increased and no bottle bac was used.


in 20 days, the new tank was cycled by mere contact of water with the old tank / shatters the claim that reef tank water doesn't have filter bacteria. establishes a cursory timeline for contact time cycling expectations.

you could set up your tank a mere month alongside the new tank, running with clean new prepped water and dirty filter material from the current reef.

end of month, whole tank cycled. that easy, by calculation of time not by measuring any other factor in the cycle. = updated cycling science.

I don't think I don;t need to wait that long even if I don;t use bottle backteria mate as I will be using old media directly in to the new tank. Bateria from water take ages, however having already establised bacteria in the sump to neutralise fish waste of 2 fish should do the trick imo.

Anyway I'll [ost soem pictures tomorrow.

 

[BeanAnimal]

this got fun



that type of setup requires planning and is not a shoe in

for example

a healthy fish bioload up top, all white rocks, no bottle bac since we want a real challenge, is an inefficient setup because waste has to be bottlenecked down into the sump to get neutralized, and will swirl around in the display for lengthy times

vs a system designed with active surfaces in the display at the time of bioload into/which are the easy skip cycles above.

let's see a diagram scheme or some pics of the stuff you're working with. looking for piping design, contact areas/where the live surfaces will be in the water flow parts of this plan.

You appear to be making this up as you go. Bottlenecked? it is all one system. While biodiversity can be different in different parts of the system, the same water flows through all of it.


Nobody needs a diagram. Please stop complicating simple things and asking people to jump through hoops to satisfy your own ego.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I had been slacking off on my reef tank( very busy and one every 2 weeks water change went to every 2 months) and it has goteen a bad case of hair algae. So I don't want to use anything in displayover tank over to my new system. Hense the reason i'm using only filter media in sump.

I'm hoping to move over all my fish over to the new system and not feed anything and see how hair algae holds0 up. Everthing elese failed to get hair algae off so far

I am going to openly advise you to ignore the advice you have been given to “not test”. It is ridiculous given the circumstances of your desired move.

You are on the right track, but moving two clowns vs an entire stocking list is a gamble if are not moving your live rock.

Treat it like any other fish in cycle without bottled bacteria. The clowns should be fine given the seeded filter media. Testing will not hurt anything and will give you peace of mind that you can move forward with the rest of the move.

 

[Reesj]

I have added the sand and filter media today. I have atatched pics of my system

 

[Reesj]

I am going to openly advise you to ignore the advice you have been given to “not test”. It is ridiculous given the circumstances of your desired move.

You are on the right track, but moving two clowns vs an entire stocking list is a gamble if are not moving your live rock.

Treat it like any other fish in cycle without bottled bacteria. The clowns should be fine given the seeded filter media. Testing will not hurt anything and will give you peace of mind that you can move forward with the rest of the move.

Thanks. No way i'm going to add anything more than 2clowns to test it out for atleast 4-5 days.
I also added the best bottle bacteria I can find in Sri Lanka. poured in most of the bottle.
Hoping to buy the clowns today evening.

 

[Dan_P]

I'm setting up a 180 gallon FOWLR setup. I have already put some bio media in my reef tank sump for few weeks. Also there are some padding I left in sump for about week. I'm hoping to use these as well as get few of my current reef tank mechanical filtration to jump start the process.

I also went to the beach and got about 20kg wet sand from there that been sitting in bucket for 3-4 days. I'm hoping to rinse them once with salt water and mix with some store bought sand.I filled up my tank with salt today and hoping to add all this tomorrow to the tank.
I'm hoping to put in 2 Clarki clowns to test the things out.
So how fast can I add these 2 initial fish you guys think?
Will it be ok if I do it next day after adding all the old bacteria stuff or would I need to wait a bit and put a bit of fish food 1st?

Don’t mix the beach sand with the new sand, rather layer the beach sand evenly on top of the new sand. This will give the beach sand bacteria much better exposure to the water.

The bio media in the the sump might be a weak bio filter after only a few weeks. It takes much longer to develop a mature and strong biofilm.

With all that said there is no way of knowing how healthy the denitrifying bacteria are working. They are slow growers and can be a small percent of the bacteria in a biofilm on the beach sand and the bio media from the sump.

If it is my tank, I would dose a little ammonium chloride, say to 0.5 ppm, and observe how quickly the ammonia is consumed. If it takes a day to disappear, your system has a reasonably strong biofilter that will handle your two clowns with normal feeding. If it takes a week for the ammonia to decline, the denitrifying bacteria aren’t working so well. It may handle the ammonia from the two fish but keep an eye on the ammonia level if adding additional fish.

It sounds like you are in a hurry to set up the new aquarium. Keeping an eye on the ammonia in your situation would be advisable, A Seachem ammonia alert badge would be something to have in the aquarium.

Go fast, but be smart!

 

[Doctorgori]

I do this all the time: start new tanks with old “cycled” media or rocks

I get a “common sense” vibe here and I’m thinking you will hold off on that school of gem tangs for now…

my take is you will be fine with your current path