How does Hydrogen Peroxide work in Dino Treatment

[Tripod1404]

Not sure if this answers the question or not since we probably have hundreds of different species of Dino’s in our tanks. But certain dinoflagellate species go through apoptosis (a type of controled or programmed cell death) in the presence of hydrogen peroxide. So dosing hydrogen peroxide may be activating this apoptosis pathway.

In their natural environment, presence of hydrogen peroxide signals to Dino’s the depletion of CO2. To put very simply, all photosynthetic organisms harvest energy from photons using chlorophyll or related molecules. This energy is used or excite electrons and powers an electron transport chain that recycles chemical energy and reducing power (ATP and NADPH) needed to fix CO2. Without CO2 to fix, ATP and NADPH cannot be spent and therefore cannot be recycled (as both these contain phosphate in it, they’re amounts are limited). However, chlorophyll cannot be turned off, so it will continue harvesting light energy regardless of downstream process that need energy. This is dangerous as if this energy is not dissipated, it will damage chlorophylls, components of electron transport chain and the membrane they sit on. There are numerous ways how this energy can be dissipated, and one mechanism involves transferring energetic electrons to oxygen to form superoxides, which can then be converted to hydrogen peroxide.

So accumulating of hydrogen peroxide signals to the Dino’s that their population reached to a critical upper limit and some of them should voluntarily kill themselves to reduce the demand for CO2. The biological or ecological benefits of this voluntary self sacrifice is somewhat unclear as Dino’s are single cellular, but the leading hypothesis is that this allows the fittest individuals of the population (ones that sustained the least oxidative damage etc.) to survive while weak and damaged individuals voluntarily kill themselves to improve the survival chances of remaining healthy cells.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(99)80459-X.pdf

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I had a long battle with dinos and diatoms. What I found worked best for me to knock them back was to use a wooden air stone at night at the intake of my return pump. It literly turned my tank into a huge protein skimmer

Fired up the air pump up at lights out, and added 1ml per 10 gallons and it did help. But in all honestly it was just an illusion. I did do a 2 day black out and that was the worst advice I've ever received as it stressed my animals out big time. So with bubbling, the dino will basically be attached to the tiny bubble and end up going through the filter socks which needed to be swapped out every morning. I also used a proper UV. I thought it never end but 7 months later the tank is free and clear. Low N&P was the issue and still today if I'm not testing regularly N or P will bottom out.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I am guessing you are using API test kits?

Yes I am I always have and their results are comparable to others

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure if this answers the question or not since we probably have hundreds of different species of Dino’s in our tanks. But certain dinoflagellate species go through apoptosis (a type of controled or programmed cell death) in the presence of hydrogen peroxide. So dosing hydrogen peroxide may be activating this apoptosis pathway.

In their natural environment, presence of hydrogen peroxide signals to Dino’s the depletion of CO2. To put very simply, all photosynthetic organisms harvest energy from photons using chlorophyll or related molecules. This energy is used or excite electrons and powers an electron transport chain that recycles chemical energy and reducing power (ATP and NADPH) needed to fix CO2. Without CO2 to fix, ATP and NADPH cannot be spent and therefore cannot be recycled (as both these contain phosphate in it, they’re amounts are limited). However, chlorophyll cannot be turned off, so it will continue harvesting light energy regardless of downstream process that need energy. This is dangerous as if this energy is not dissipated, it will damage chlorophylls, components of electron transport chain and the membrane they sit on. There are numerous ways how this energy can be dissipated, and one mechanism involves transferring energetic electrons to oxygen to form superoxides, which can then be converted to hydrogen peroxide.

So accumulating of hydrogen peroxide signals to the Dino’s that their population reached to a critical upper limit and some of them should voluntarily kill themselves to reduce the demand for CO2. The biological or ecological benefits of this voluntary self sacrifice is somewhat unclear as Dino’s are single cellular, but the leading hypothesis is that this allows the fittest individuals of the population (ones that sustained the least oxidative damage etc.) to survive while weak and damaged individuals voluntarily kill themselves to improve the survival chances of remaining healthy cells.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(99)80459-X.pdf

Thanks for the interesting post.

 

[fishndive121]

Not sure if this answers the question or not since we probably have hundreds of different species of Dino’s in our tanks. But certain dinoflagellate species go through apoptosis (a type of controled or programmed cell death) in the presence of hydrogen peroxide. So dosing hydrogen peroxide may be activating this apoptosis pathway.

In their natural environment, presence of hydrogen peroxide signals to Dino’s the depletion of CO2. To put very simply, all photosynthetic organisms harvest energy from photons using chlorophyll or related molecules. This energy is used or excite electrons and powers an electron transport chain that recycles chemical energy and reducing power (ATP and NADPH) needed to fix CO2. Without CO2 to fix, ATP and NADPH cannot be spent and therefore cannot be recycled (as both these contain phosphate in it, they’re amounts are limited). However, chlorophyll cannot be turned off, so it will continue harvesting light energy regardless of downstream process that need energy. This is dangerous as if this energy is not dissipated, it will damage chlorophylls, components of electron transport chain and the membrane they sit on. There are numerous ways how this energy can be dissipated, and one mechanism involves transferring energetic electrons to oxygen to form superoxides, which can then be converted to hydrogen peroxide.

So accumulating of hydrogen peroxide signals to the Dino’s that their population reached to a critical upper limit and some of them should voluntarily kill themselves to reduce the demand for CO2. The biological or ecological benefits of this voluntary self sacrifice is somewhat unclear as Dino’s are single cellular, but the leading hypothesis is that this allows the fittest individuals of the population (ones that sustained the least oxidative damage etc.) to survive while weak and damaged individuals voluntarily kill themselves to improve the survival chances of remaining healthy cells.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(99)80459-X.pdf

Extremely insightful! Thanks for sharing

 

[Spare time]

Not sure if this answers the question or not since we probably have hundreds of different species of Dino’s in our tanks. But certain dinoflagellate species go through apoptosis (a type of controled or programmed cell death) in the presence of hydrogen peroxide. So dosing hydrogen peroxide may be activating this apoptosis pathway.

In their natural environment, presence of hydrogen peroxide signals to Dino’s the depletion of CO2. To put very simply, all photosynthetic organisms harvest energy from photons using chlorophyll or related molecules. This energy is used or excite electrons and powers an electron transport chain that recycles chemical energy and reducing power (ATP and NADPH) needed to fix CO2. Without CO2 to fix, ATP and NADPH cannot be spent and therefore cannot be recycled (as both these contain phosphate in it, they’re amounts are limited). However, chlorophyll cannot be turned off, so it will continue harvesting light energy regardless of downstream process that need energy. This is dangerous as if this energy is not dissipated, it will damage chlorophylls, components of electron transport chain and the membrane they sit on. There are numerous ways how this energy can be dissipated, and one mechanism involves transferring energetic electrons to oxygen to form superoxides, which can then be converted to hydrogen peroxide.

So accumulating of hydrogen peroxide signals to the Dino’s that their population reached to a critical upper limit and some of them should voluntarily kill themselves to reduce the demand for CO2. The biological or ecological benefits of this voluntary self sacrifice is somewhat unclear as Dino’s are single cellular, but the leading hypothesis is that this allows the fittest individuals of the population (ones that sustained the least oxidative damage etc.) to survive while weak and damaged individuals voluntarily kill themselves to improve the survival chances of remaining healthy cells.

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(99)80459-X.pdf

There is a problem with some voluntarily killing themselves for the rest of the population as that doesn't work in terms of selection. However, I don't think they are saying that per the last paragraph from my interpretation.