How do you tell your LFS they aren't doing a good job?

[liveround69]

Strange you post this and i posted a similar post a few months back and got blasted by a R2R troll about dipping and quarantining creatures and corals before adding to the main tank.

My main argument was that the LFS needed to be more upfront about the things going on with the creatures,corals etc. instead of trying to hide it. Such as bryopsis being scraped off the glass and other areas to conceal the fact the main tanks are contaminated. When brought to their attention that several times in the last 3 yrs that they gave me bryopsis,red planaria, aiptasia, brooklynella and nemertean worms the owner acted like there was no way it came from his tanks. Yet my entire setup was a started from liquid bacteria, base rock and sand with a dead shrimp tossed in for five weeks and then a few trips to his store started giving me the above mentioned issues. I told him i only went to his store and he claimed i got it from somewhere else. NOT him....LOL.

After a few conversations about these issues with the owner and was politely lied to in bold face manner,..i decided he was obviously full of fish poop and took my business elsewhere.

 

[Jeff Evrard]

Great topic. Most of the stores here in Kansas City are great. You can tell the ones that make most of their money with maintenance jobs by the lack of pricing on live stock and even labeling the tanks w/ what they have. I have also noticed that some just get a bad/marginal shipment and just have to unload it. Its straight economics. As a consumer, even w/ quote unquote "healthy " fish there is a ton of due dilligence involved when making a purchase. A good store will always answer your questions and send you straight to the web for answers. They know you don't want to leave empty handed.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm sure this topic has come up before, but I'm in a situation where I am deeply disappointed with my LFS. Where I'm at there are a few LFS's, but the one I go to is the only locally owned, non-chain store that focuses on the retail side of things (we have another store that is focused on tank servicing but can order some stuff for you although it takes a month or so to get fish or coral from them).

Right now if you were to go in there (I know because I went last night), you would see several tanks of fish containing several sick or dead fish, cyano, and other nasty stuff like bryopsis and dinos in the coral tanks. It's gotten to the point where I go every week expecting some improvements but they never pan out and things actually seem to get worse.

This store in particular came out swinging in the beginning last year when they opened saying things like "We're gonna be the best Fish store in town and always have the lowest prices!" and "We'll always have healthy fish and corals and won't sell them if they aren't!". It may just be hype building but to me it's a huge disservice to me and my fellow hobbyists who were hoping the claims were true after going so long without a good store in the area.

Is there anything you folks can suggest that may help me or my fellow hobbyists get the message across that this store needs to rethink the way they are doing things? Right now I visit this store weekly since I'm on the lookout for new fish and every single time I walk out with no money spent, hoping to get the message across that I'm not buying anything until they take a little better care of what they have, I've even said out loud in the store that I won't buy anything coming from a tank filled with dinos. So far I think I'm just waiting my time and would probably be better off ordering everything from Amazon or LiveAquaria or something which isn't something I normally like to do instead of supporting small, local businesses. For the time being I'm just gonna have that other store order stuff for me and go to Petco for the stuff I can't wait for.

Thanks for reading my rant at least

1. Put a review on sites where you are able.
2. Stop shopping there.
3. Talk to the owner.
4. Have you viewed the conditions all the fish you plan to order from online. BTW - many would set Petco should be banned from selling saltwater items
5. Cyano in a tank does not imply something bad. Sick or dying fish is another story. Seems it would be an easy thing to ask 'Hey - look at this tank - why would I shop here if you have dying fish in your tanks.'..

Why did you ask this question. ?

 

[MnFish1]

The LFS near me about 10 minutes, with the same situation. Tanks are dirty, dead fish in the bottom of the tank. No inventory or the same stuff all the time. The corals are poor in quality. Since I'm retired I offer to help clean the tanks. And trust me I've made several comments and opinions. I stopped going and a few of my buds. We drive to Tampa or Orlando like WWC or other LFS that care.

its funny - I have been to multiple fish stores (not a big box chain) - and have never seen multiple dead marine fish in tanks. Where do you guys live?

 

[bdejong1112o]

its funny - I have been to multiple fish stores (not a big box chain) - and have never seen multiple dead marine fish in tanks. Where do you guys live?

In a sad place for fish..... I usually gonlooking every weekend and I always find floaters at a few of the local stores. I hate to see it so consistently and have only bought fish from the ones that have the best looking tanks. The hard part is that one of them that has consistently had dead fish for hours in thier tanks also has some of the nicest people. However, they also have some of the most complacent. That one I am going to discuss the issue with the owner the next time I am there because I think he will be ok with hearing it.

 

[Justfbilly]

I am in the same situation. The LFS I have been using for a few years now was at one time great. The fish were healthy, the corals looked great and the prices were really good. Now when he gets fish In they don’t look healthy and are very thin. All of the coral tanks are full of Aptasia and his prices have now gotten to the point where they are twice as high as all the other LFS. I am now in the market for a new LFS. I hate the idea of having to start over with a new store but I am not willing to throw money away on unhealthy fish or corals with Aptasia!

 

[RedoubtReef]

When I first read this, I thought you must live in Spokane. We have three stores in this area that range from 'meh' to 'don't bother'. You're not alone in your experience. Sounds like your only choice is to buy livestock online. I think posting an honest review on Yelp maybe is a good option. That's what I did. I won't buy livestock from any of them, but I will buy salt.

This has been my experience in Spokane:
Owner(s) at a couple are just sitting around watching TV or on their phone/computer while the store is left dirty, unorganized and the display tanks un-maintained and filled with aptasia and majano's. At another I was greeted by gal that came out of the back room with the fresh smell of weed and cigarettes trailing behind her as she tried to find something I ordered and they had been trying to locate in their store for more than a week. It's hard to find things when your stoned sweetie, just saying...

Someone who is serious about saltwater fish and corals could really blow these other stores out of the water should they decide to open a quality shop.

You know what's really sad? The best saltwater fish and corals I've found in this area are at the Petco in CDA/Hayden, Idaho. They even have a cool little frag tank setup with SPS, LPS and softies. I walk in and see a Potter's Angel, wrasses, and and other cool livestock and inverts in clean tanks. I talked to the guy Corry (sp?) that maintains the saltwater stuff there and he does a great job and has actually setup and maintained a personal reef tank.

 

[siggy]

Sounds the same everywhere, is this just the sign of the times. I myself have been in and out of the salt hobby 3 times now. Can these people pay to keep up a enterprize 100 times the size of our reefs let alone the overhead of a store. My LFS and there are a handful, a few try to do well but the fish are coming in thin and sick, this is a distribution problem and the corals are ok in one shop but none have anything steller, when i asked he stated that nobody is willing to pay the prices. Cherry Corals is a local supplier and i have never seen any cherries at any of the shops

 

[Cessna89811]

I'm sure this topic has come up before, but I'm in a situation where I am deeply disappointed with my LFS. Where I'm at there are a few LFS's, but the one I go to is the only locally owned, non-chain store that focuses on the retail side of things (we have another store that is focused on tank servicing but can order some stuff for you although it takes a month or so to get fish or coral from them).

Right now if you were to go in there (I know because I went last night), you would see several tanks of fish containing several sick or dead fish, cyano, and other nasty stuff like bryopsis and dinos in the coral tanks. It's gotten to the point where I go every week expecting some improvements but they never pan out and things actually seem to get worse.

This store in particular came out swinging in the beginning last year when they opened saying things like "We're gonna be the best Fish store in town and always have the lowest prices!" and "We'll always have healthy fish and corals and won't sell them if they aren't!". It may just be hype building but to me it's a huge disservice to me and my fellow hobbyists who were hoping the claims were true after going so long without a good store in the area.

Is there anything you folks can suggest that may help me or my fellow hobbyists get the message across that this store needs to rethink the way they are doing things? Right now I visit this store weekly since I'm on the lookout for new fish and every single time I walk out with no money spent, hoping to get the message across that I'm not buying anything until they take a little better care of what they have, I've even said out loud in the store that I won't buy anything coming from a tank filled with dinos. So far I think I'm just waiting my time and would probably be better off ordering everything from Amazon or LiveAquaria or something which isn't something I normally like to do instead of supporting small, local businesses. For the time being I'm just gonna have that other store order stuff for me and go to Petco for the stuff I can't wait for.

Thanks for reading my rant at least

Yeah, there is a LFS in my hometown of Pensacola across from Olive Baptist Church. I don't want to give name or address.. It is in such sad shape!!

 

[Cessna89811]

Thanks everyone for all of the extra advice. I know a lot of folks have suggested I simply talk to the owners, but from my experience with the guy and his wife, they're not exactly the type to sit down and listen and they're definitely pretty opinionated.

Other folks have suggested that I volunteer at the store and help them clean up some which isn't an idea I'm totally opposed to, but currently I'm stretched thin with a full time job and grad school so maybe it's something I can try once I graduate at the end of this semester. It would also probably be a good opportunity for me to realize what all is entailed with operating a fish store, especially since I often play around with the idea of developing a business plan for my own store.

For the time being I will probably take my money elsewhere, there's a frag swap coming up in February in Montgomery AL I need to save up for anyways

Olive RD??? God, you are describing that sad LFS...

 

[7hogwarts]

I own a small business. (Completely different industry -Horticulture). I always WANT TO KNOW if there is anything that the customer would like to see or could be done better. We even send out quick surveys to help. I actually LISTEN to and ADDRESS their concerns. While I am at a client's property, I also look to see if there is anything else unusual or out of place. If so, I let the client know about it. I will tell the client how they can correct it themselves or I can do it for them or refer someone I know that can correct it. Sure all of this takes a bit of time, but 90% of the time the client just says "You take care of it because I know it will be done right." Also, if there is something I don't know the answer to. I tell the client "I don't know, but will get back to them." (Usually within 24 hours)
That all being said, my business has grown approximately 17% each year (including in 2008) primarily based on referrals. There is a lot of competition out there, I try to be the best. It really doesn't take a lot of effort to be better, but it does take some effort.

 

[SB Reef Lights]

Hey guys, figured I would chime in since the original post refers to my shop. SB Reefs in Pensacola Florida.

1st I am incredibly sorry that we did not meet Nathaniels standards, but even more sad he did not feel he could approach us on the subject, which is our fault, not his. I have been reefing for 30 years and still learn new things daily. I always love receiving feedback from customers, whether positive or critical.

So to answer the OP, talk to the owner first. There are too few choices for hobbyist not to help the store owner out. With a LFS you can see what you are buying, that it is healthy and eating. If you order online, can you see their system and know if they have similar issues? If the store owner blows you off, then by all means go public, leave reviews, stop shopping. However most shop owners are in it for the love of the hobby, few if any start out not caring, in fact most who struggle are fighting to make things better.

As for the original post, our store SB Reefs has been in our new location for 5 months, systems are still breaking in, it was a complete reboot. Much like any hobbyist that goes through ugly tank syndrome from month 4-6, things are tough. However unlike a home set up, we cycle through 30-40 boxes of fish and coral every week. bioloads increase and decrease through out the week. Out of 80+ SW tanks we have Cyano in 5 or 6, which is not okay to me, just putting it in perspective. Every week, as the system matures, tanks have looked better and better. We battle with it daily, have treated with Chemiclean and added flow, as well as adjusting feeding amounts. But as anyone who has battled Cyano knows, it is not always a one day treatment. The bryopsis on the Zoa frags just started Black Friday week with a new shipment of zoas. We raised Mg and added emerald crabs hoping to head it off at the pass, system is too big to treat with Algaeoust or Floconazole. However it was spreading faster than expected. Today we pulled all frags with even a trace of Bryopsis. They have been dipped in Peroxide and are in a healing system with elevated Mg.

A store on it's best day is a hotel not a home. It is a challenge to keep things perfect. We do a better job than most, but could obviously do better. Feedback is always welcome and appreciated. Next time just talk to me or any of the staff. Offer solutions. Simply pointing out issues does little to help as most shop owners are very aware already. Sadly you can also simply vote with your wallet, that is always the customer's choice. In reality, as much as I want feedback from my customers, they are under no obligation to give it. That is the reality for a shop owner. What I do know is by and large we are doing most things right as our customer reviews are largely positive and sales are incredible. In a year we have gone from a new store in a 1500sqft location to a new 5000+sqft location with an online coral site starting and a dedicated 10,000sqft coral farm going live in the spring. Not to mention a Panama City Florida location this spring, and Slidell next Fall as well. But do we miss the bar at times? You bet. We will continue to work harder to make things right.

Nathaniel, swing by anytime to shoot the breeze, love any help you can offer.

 

[sbreefer]

I do all business online.

 

[SB Reef Lights]

Reached out to Nathaniel and he is going to swing by the shop soon! To get customer feedback is a blessing. He's got my cell now so I can make sure I am personally there chat.

 

[EuroDriver]

Glad you chimed in but more glad to see a good outcome!
Nothing worse than seeing your business dwindling and not having a clue as to why.
Congrats for having a receptive and open mind

 

[Salty.Reefer]

As a small business owner, it is very easy to get overwhelmed and forget why you went into business. What I would say is, offer to help him take care of his issues. Get his tanks shining nice. You might just make a lifetime friend out of it. I bet you'll find he's struggling in paying his bills and just stressed out.

When I was young (late middle school early high school) I would go into my LFS that struggled keeping things clean. I would clean the glass, sweep, and remove dead fish. He helped me out while I went out of town and by giving me frags/ fish at discounted rates. A little help can go a long way.

 

[Forsaken77]

Sounds the same everywhere, is this just the sign of the times. I myself have been in and out of the salt hobby 3 times now. Can these people pay to keep up a enterprize 100 times the size of our reefs let alone the overhead of a store. My LFS and there are a handful, a few try to do well but the fish are coming in thin and sick, this is a distribution problem and the corals are ok in one shop but none have anything steller, when i asked he stated that nobody is willing to pay the prices. Cherry Corals is a local supplier and i have never seen any cherries at any of the shops

That's exactly what the owner of one of my places said when I asked why he doesn't get certain fish.... "Because people don't want to spend the money."

He had a beautiful 4" Magnificent Foxface (that usually is around $100) listed for $60 and said the fish had been there a month. I couldn't pass up that deal. He said people think $60 for a saltwater fish is too expensive.

I think a lot of people get into this hobby with the wrong expectations, or think it should cost what freshwater livestock costs, but just different maintenance. People don't get that saltwater is expensive and not a hobby that you can maintain on the cheap.

Some of the fault lies with the LFS's just telling people it's just like freshwater, but different procedures, just to make a sale. So these people think a $50 fish is some exotic species, lol.

 

[Mattrg02]

That's exactly what the owner of one of my places said when I asked why he doesn't get certain fish.... "Because people don't want to spend the money."

He had a beautiful 4" Magnificent Foxface (that usually is around $100) listed for $60 and said the fish had been there a month. I couldn't pass up that deal. He said people think $60 for a saltwater fish is too expensive.

I think a lot of people get into this hobby with the wrong expectations, or think it should cost what freshwater livestock costs, but just different maintenance. People don't get that saltwater is expensive and not a hobby that you can maintain on the cheap.

Some of the fault lies with the LFS's just telling people it's just like freshwater, but different procedures, just to make a sale. So these people think a $50 fish is some exotic species, lol.

You don’t have to spend $100 on a fish to get a nice one, you know. The most I ever paid was $35 for a yellow fin fairy wrasse. He was the prettiest fish I ever had, God rest his soul, and on par with the nicer, more exotic, ones.

I’d consider $100 to be excessive for a fish, but that’s just me...lol

 

[Forsaken77]

You don’t have to spend $100 on a fish to get a nice one, you know. The most I ever paid was $35 for a yellow fin fairy wrasse. He was the prettiest fish I ever had, God rest his soul, and on par with the nicer, more exotic, ones.

I’d consider $100 to be excessive for a fish, but that’s just me...lol

I guess it comes down to the species you want. Some cannot be bought cheap.

 

[Jlg0271]

I Know the shop very well, If it wasnt for them i wouldn't be in the hobby. I see what Mike, Collette & his family have done and gone through and understand there growing pains and they are doing everything to deal with it, By far the best shop in our area ....