How do you feel about Nitrates and what's the limit for you?

betareef · Jun 1, 2024

So nitrates are fertiliser, yes? Will they cause an outbreak of green algae?

GARRIGA · Jun 1, 2024

EricR said:
Feeding more never worked for me and I've struggled much more with LOW nutrients than high.

I buy direct from Loudwolf website (free shipping so cheaper than Amazon):
- Calcium Nitrate

Going to try this to raise alkalinity by using nitrates plus carbon dosing or Fuge. Sodium free option it would seem.

GARRIGA · Jun 1, 2024

Experimental tank void of coral but after defeating dino nightmare that lasted six plus months with a combination of methods for which I have no clue which finally solved it but they never returned and my nitrates were zero and phosphates hovered around 1.10 ppm based on ICP-OES. Overfed therefore constant source of ammonia. Going to try this next with corals and see how they react. Easier for me to bottom something out then maintain a narrow edge. Plus I'm guessing that with the progression to ammonium dosing that perhaps bottomed out nitrates at some point no longer a problem. Heavy in. Heavy out my plan. See how that goes. Nothing should be set in stone. Hobby continues to evolve.

Formulator · Jun 1, 2024

rtparty said:
Nothing (or at least very, very little) in our systems utilizes nitrates as an energy source. They have to convert it back to nitrite or ammonia to use it as an energy source. Dosing nitrates is futile. Dose ammonia and give everything the real source of energy it wants. Then shoot for nitrates above 0 but below 10ppm or so. This will tell you if you are dosing just enough ammonia to cover the needs of your tank but not overdosing.

This is misinformed. While this was accepted thinking 30 years ago, several scientific studies have proven direct uptake and metabolism of nitrate by corals in ammonium limited environments. I get what you are trying to say and direct ammonia dosing may be more efficient, but to say “nitrate dosing is futile” is just plain wrong.

https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.4319/lo.2003.48.6.2266

Troylee · Jun 2, 2024

Bob Weigant said:
I struggle to reach 1. Acro's are in full polyp and growing so Im not trippen to much

Gotta gut load that bacteria! If you’re ever in Vegas you’ll have to swing by man! My tank is growing like crazy! It’s just barely over a year old and I have some decent size colonies already. Fastest growing tank I’ve ever owned.

rtparty · Jun 2, 2024

Formulator said:
This is misinformed. While this was accepted thinking 30 years ago, several scientific studies have proven direct uptake and metabolism of nitrate by corals in ammonium limited environments. I get what you are trying to say and direct ammonia dosing may be more efficient, but to say “nitrate dosing is futile” is just plain wrong.

https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.4319/lo.2003.48.6.2266

Yes, they’re using nitrate (by converting it back to nitrite or ammonia) because there is a lack of ammonia. Just like I said. Thank you for confirming.

Dosing ammonia is more beneficial and the better choice

Formulator · Jun 2, 2024

rtparty said:
Yes, they’re using nitrate (by converting it back to nitrite or ammonia) because there is a lack of ammonia. Just like I said. Thank you for confirming.

Dosing ammonia is more beneficial and the better choice

Yes, and there is a net energy gain to the organism. Many things in our tanks use nitrate. Nitrate dosing is not futile. If your post had said “ammonia is a more efficient way to provide nutrition”, I wouldn’t argue with that. But that’s not what you said.

rtparty · Jun 2, 2024

Formulator said:
Yes, and there is a net energy gain to the organism. Many things in our tanks use nitrate. Nitrate dosing is not futile. If your post had said “ammonia is a more efficient way to provide nutrition”, I wouldn’t argue with that. But that’s not what you said.

Okay here…

Ammonia is better than nitrate dosing. There is no reason to dose nitrate over ammonia. Therefore, nitrate dosing is pointless.

GARRIGA · Jun 2, 2024

rtparty said:
Okay here…

Ammonia is better than nitrate dosing. There is no reason to dose nitrate over ammonia. Therefore, nitrate dosing is pointless.

Learned that in the 70s with planted FW tanks. Although at the time didn’t understand that nitrate and nitrite had to be down converted to ammonium. Farmers knew this long before I was born.

Turns out it appears some plants do prefer nitrates but that appears to be limited and might be the case with corals but don’t believe that’s known to be true since I doubt every coral has been studied.

Heavy in. Heavy out. Makes more sense than reading nitrates. Ammonium consumption requires phosphate utilization. Go natural and spend more time enjoying vs slaving. Less testing. Less stress. Less is best.

Reeferbadness · Jun 2, 2024

radiata said:
Forty-five plus years back I wished my nitrates would get way below 40. That was back in the days when Bio Balls were just coming to be considered to be "nitrate factories". I've been trying to lower my nitrate readings ever since. Be careful what you wish for ~ I'm now hitting zero nitrates all too often. I think this is due to my excessive macroalgae use to try to limit them (a scrubber and my DIY algae "spinner"). Unfortunately, this macro usage doesn't also get my phosphates down to a lower level as one might expect. (A 0.1 PO4 level occasionally occurs.) Shouldn't one reasonably hope there would be a dual drop, with both nitrates and phosphates impacted? [Please don't suggest any comparisons to the Redfield Ratio!] I now have to hit the system with the likes of Neo-Nitrate, while simultaneously searching for an etheral and yet fully functional phosphate removing process based on Lanathum Chloride. Where has our ultimate N03~PO4 reducing methodology been hiding all this time?

I have the same issue with both of my 200g tanks. Each has a refugium and initially, i let the chaeto fill the chamber. Now i cut it back to about softball size (from soccer ball size let's say) and it still consumes way more Nitrates than Phos but it's more in check. I dose NeoNitrate now and then go get them around 10.

Serpentman2024 · Jun 2, 2024

revhtree said:
Back in the olden days, at the dawn of reefing time, we were told we needed ZERO Nitrates but ah how times have changed! Now we know there are safe and healthy levels we should set our sights on in terms of Nitrate readings.

How do you feel about Nitrates and what's the limit for you?

Old school here so I'm still having to let go of my nitrate bias lol.

Reefer Matt · Jun 2, 2024

Miami Reef said:
Dinos are more indicative of a phosphate deficiency. I think your experience aligns well with phosphate deficiencies equating dinos.

I wonder if you’ll have less dinos now that your PO4 is a bit higher.

I haven’t had them in a while as I run uv 24/7, but maybe I won’t have to now. Thanks!

Bob Weigant · Jun 2, 2024

Troylee said:
Gotta gut load that bacteria! If you’re ever in Vegas you’ll have to swing by man! My tank is growing like crazy! It’s just barely over a year old and I have some decent size colonies already. Fastest growing tank I’ve ever owned.

My kids still live there so next time Im down I'll let ya know. It would be great to see ya again

Screwgunner · Jul 21, 2024

In my opinion corals like water alitte dirty 5 to 10 on nitrates and 1 to.5 on phosphates. If you are going for hard corals stay in the lower range.

EvolvedMonkey · Jul 21, 2024

I didn't know what nitrates were (guy that was keeping up with my tank had a faulty API kit reading 0ish nitrates), and when I finally tested them for the first time, they were off the charts 150 ppm +

By cutting feeding by 80% and starting a refugium, I got them as low as 19ppm..

Then I got some finicky feeders and had to start feeding the tank heavily again to ensure they were eating enough (4+ cubes a day with various other stuff in a 165g). I've now spiked back to 50 :/

Currently I'm running Nopox (3 weeks in) and an Algae scrubber (5 days in) AND a refugium AND cutting back on feeding AND changing my mechanical filtration and cleaning my skimmer every 2-3 days.

I'm shooting for 5 ish ppm.. but, thankfully, the corals have done surprisingly well even in this high nitrate environment. Much better on the lower end of my range though.