How do I get rid of cyano when low nutrients is the problem?
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MnFish1
10K Club member
If I had a tank like this - I would take the rock out and brush it. Rinse with SW and replace - then cover as much of the surface with other living things. (i.e. and this is not for everyone) - I tend to flip rocks over if I can - or use larger colonies coral bought at the same time. So - if the rock is 'covered' with coral - bad stuff usually will not grow. To me people that have these problems - dont have enough living things in their tank to compete with the algae - which can grow faster. I'm not a big believer in the absolute that your tank has to be 'ugly' for months - which is heresy here..
MnFish1
10K Club member
Im not sure what you mean - its not my tank - and the person has lots of other information to digest?
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
It is very hard to tell in the pictures, but it could also be dinos. In my opinion and experience, 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate in a reef tank should be avoided at all cost. You can have GHA, cyano, etc. in a tank with undetectable nitrate/phosphate, and you can have it with low, medium, or high nitrate/phosphate. Cyano typically forms very thin mats (sort of like a very thin crepe), and if you disturb water near it, you will see a part of that mat roll up like a scroll... I realize this might not be the case with every type of cyano, but that is the type I've encountered with multiple tanks over many years. I recently got done fighting a dino battle that ended with a ton of cyano. After removing as much cyano as I could with each water change, it is now almost gone. However, my nitrates are holding at around 12 ppm, and my phosphates are holding at around .16 ppm... obviously nutrients alone weren't the cause.
If you are seeing little coralline algae growth (no more than just a dot or splotch here and there), and you detect very low or no nitrates/phosphates, dinos are a real possibility.
If you are seeing little coralline algae growth (no more than just a dot or splotch here and there), and you detect very low or no nitrates/phosphates, dinos are a real possibility.
MnFish1
10K Club member
Here is a question. Lets say you have a tank (rare) in which the nitrates/phosphates produced matches nearly exactly the nitrates phosphates required for 'survival' of whatever is consuming them. IMHO - in this case the levels measured will be '0'. There won't be 'growth' except in the certain things that can outcompete other things (i.e. corals may suffer because algae may grow more quickly). But - if you dont have an algae problem hypothetically - there is no problem with 0 levels. (IMHO)
PS - I meant to ask the OP - how do you know that low nutrients 'is the problem'. There are more nutrients in your tank on your sand your rock, etc that you can't necessarily measure in the water column?
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
True, but there is no way to know if you've reached a perfect balance. After getting back into the hobby almost 2 years ago, my 140 gal had a hair algae outbreak early on, and was followed by dinos. Since the tank was relatively young, I wasn't that worried about the GHA or nutrients. I think I tested nitrate/phosphate after about three months and got nothing detectable on my nitrate test and my API test kit measured 0 ppm phosphate. I didn't think much about it and knowing the resolution of the API, I figured that phosphates could still be kind of high. The other thing I noticed was that I was getting no coral growth with the exception of my euphyllia (hammer coral), and I had almost no coralline algae growth, and my chaeto wasn't growing. My LPS corals, encrusting montipora, and zoas had color, but they didn't spread at all. The zoas also remained small and didn't open very much. A month or two later, I started getting brown snotty-looking stuff all over the sand. I figured that my phosphates were high so I added some Phosgard. Odd thing was, Phosgard typically turns sort of yellow when discharged, but this looked about the same as when I put it in about a week before. I started researching and learned about dinos. I tested nitrate, which was again 0, and tested Phosphate, which was 2 ppb (.006 ppm) on my Hanna ULR. The dino battle isn't really pertinent to this thread, but I've had GHA with zilch for nutrients and all but eliminated cyano (no Chemiclean, etc.) while maintaining what many would call high nutrients.
I agree that nuisance algae and such can thrive in tanks with high nutrients but many have witnessed, as have I, that nuisance algae and such can thrive in tanks with undetectable nutrients, and it can be near nonexistent in tanks with high nutrients. Hence, my opinion is that high nutrients could be like pouring gas on a fire, but it isn't what caused the fire, and the fire can still burn out of control without throwing gas on it (e.g., nuisance algae, cyano, etc. can still get out of control in low nutrient tanks). Again in my opinion, one can either lower nutrients to non-detectable levels or close, and rely on visual clues for coral health and hope the "balance" isn't interrupted by something undesirable that takes more than its fair share of nutrients robbing corals of what they need. Or, one can keep very detectable nutrient levels and never worry about straddling that fence (e.g. trying to maintain that perfect balance).
All JMHO.
OP
OP
glb
7500 Club Member
I think I’m going to do the Chemiclean. Once it’s gone my nutrients will come back. I have air stones for extra oxygenation. Should I leave the skimmer off for a short time to let it do its thing? I’ve read that the skimmer will go crazy at first after using Chemiclean. Any help is appreciated!
mta_morrow
Of course I have room for 1 more fish!
Good choice. I’m getting ready for my semi annual chemiclean tank enema.
I have used chemiclean for years whether I have some cyano or not.
When I do have cyano and it’s getting out of hand, chemiclean is my go to treatment.
My NO3 stays at 4-6 and PO4 .02-.05 always. I have massive flow in my tank. Everywhere. And I still get it sometimes.
So when I do my semi annual chemiclean treatment here is what I do.
Remove carbon.
Clean skimmer cup and replace and let it just drain to the sump for the next 2-3 day. You still want it used to add oxygen to your water.
Dose the appropriate amount of chemiclean. More is not better!
Lights off for the 3 days.
After the 36 hours, do a 20-25% WC.
Add carbon even if you don’t normally run it.
As soon ay your skimmer settles down, quit draining into the sump.
I have never had it affect corals, fish, or my nems.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Mike
MnFish1
10K Club member
I would take the cup off the skimmer and just let it overflow into your sump (if you have a sump - I dont remember)
MnFish1
10K Club member
yes. it aerates the water - you dont need another airstone. Just dont collect the stuff coming out.
mta_morrow
Of course I have room for 1 more fish!
Those numbers are good enough for any tank you may want. It’s actually a bit too clean for me.
How did this work for you?
Sasquatchv
Community Member
Tell it to my cyano growing mostly in front of a 4000l/h power head.
Nuke the tank and start over with freshwater I think is only long lasting solution... I'm sick of this freeking ****e
....sorry had to vent...
My nutrients go above 4 and 0.06 and I get gha + bryopsis apocalypse I get them to 2 and 0.04 stable for 4 weeks and cyano takes over. I'm sick of this crap.
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Noodles_Jefferson
Community Member
I'm also dealing with a cyano outbreak. The chemiclean gets it to almost nothing but it comes back. I found out that my nitrates are actually too low and so I've been dosing NP+ and it seems to be working. it raises both nitrates and phosphates.
MnFish1
10K Club member
There are lots of people with low nitrates with no cyano. its multifactorial and IMHO - not all that much related to low nutrients.
livinlifeinBKK
5000 Club Member
Cyano and other undesirable species grow on uncolonized surfaces very quickly and easily. The primary problem is that the surfaces were either uncolonized at the time the cyano started growing or whatever had previously colonized the surface of the rock was a weak competitor compared to cyano. Once the cyano starts to proliferate, it causes a shift in the microbiome that favors its growth (this is true for some other algal species as well). High nutrients arent always the problem.
Remove as much cyano as you can, do a large water change, and focus on encouraging a healthy microbiome. If you want to know more or have any questions as to why I believe this feel free to ask.
Remove as much cyano as you can, do a large water change, and focus on encouraging a healthy microbiome. If you want to know more or have any questions as to why I believe this feel free to ask.
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