How deadly is 0 phosphates?

[jayteerq]

So I’m struggling to keep phosphates up. My nitrates are at 5 but phosphates 0. I feed heavy and feed coral food about twice a week. Phosphates popped up at 0.1 one week out of the 4 months I’ve been up and running. Without water changes, the phosphates disappeared. My question is, how detrimental can 0 phosphates be for LPS and SPS? Also, how can I keep my phosphates up and stable without exploding the numbers to something greater than .1*?

Alk - 9.3
Cal - 450
Mag - 1400

 

[Formulator]

Also, how can I keep my phosphates up and stable without exploding the numbers to something greater than .01?

Is this a typo? You should be targeting 0.1 ppm phosphate. Having zero phosphate can invite dinos and will also starve your corals of a vital nutrient. Reef roids are very effective at raising phosphate. For a more precise measured dose, neophos works great. I’m kind of curious where they are going though. What kind of filtration are you running? Any media?

 

[jayteerq]

Could my corals be consuming all the phos? I’m pretty heavily stocked. Mostly frags but here’s a list

3 hammer
1 duncan
3 torch
2 goniopora
1 toadstool
4 anenomes
4 zoas
1 mushroom
1 gsp
1 xenia
1 Kenya tree
6 montipora cap
2 digitata
3 acropora
1 stylophora
1 cyphastrea
2 scolymia
2 acans

 

[DangerDave]

It's as deadly to the coral as not eating enough food would be to you.

 

[Formulator]

Ahh yes, all those softies and nems will eat it up. You may just need to dose it regularly to keep things stable. I have to do the same for my nitrates. Brightwell Neophos is a great option.

 

[jayteerq]

Is this a typo? You should be targeting 0.1 ppm phosphate. Having zero phosphate can invite dinos and will also starve your corals of a vital nutrient. Reef roids are very effective at raising phosphate. For a more precise measured dose, neophos works great. I’m kind of curious where they are going though. What kind of filtration are you running? Any media?

Yes! Sorry I meant to say I’m targeting 0.1. Not 0.01. I just recently started feeding reef roid! Hopefully that’ll show some changes! I have 4 filter socks (sucks btw) and a Tunze comline 9004 skimmer. Waterbox 65.4 AIO. And one of the chambers is a refugium. So yes I guess heavy on the filtration side as well which is probably not helping in this case lol

 

[jayteerq]

Ahh yes, all those softies and nems will eat it up. You may just need to dose it regularly to keep things stable. I have to do the same for my nitrates. Brightwell Neophos is a great option.

Do you have any experience with Tropic Marin Phos Feed? I have that on hand. Question. If dosing for phos or nitrate, do you stop dosing once you reach the preferred level? Or do you find a stable dosage to keep the range you want?

 

[Formulator]

Do you have any experience with Tropic Marin Phos Feed? I have that on hand. Question. If dosing for phos or nitrate, do you stop dosing once you reach the preferred level? Or do you find a stable dosage to keep the range you want?

I don’t have any experience, but Tropic Marin makes good products so I assume it is fine to use. Regarding dosing, you will need to let your testing be your guide. For my situation I stopped when I reached my target but then found it was going down again after a couple days. I tracked the decrease over a few days to figure out the daily consumption and then started a daily dosing program with that amount, which was smaller than the dose I was doing to raise it to the target at first. I have to dose about 1 ppm worth every day now to keep nitrate stable at 10 ppm.

 

[jayteerq]

If phosphate is considered food for coral. How come we have such a small range to play with? 0.01-0.1? Or 0.2? Why would more “food” be harmful? Just curious!

 

[jayteerq]

I don’t have any experience, but Tropic Marin makes good products so I assume it is fine to use. Regarding dosing, you will need to let your testing be your guide. For my situation I stopped when I reached my target but then found it was going down again after a couple days. I tracked the decrease over a few days to figure out the daily consumption and then started a daily dosing program with that amount, which was smaller than the dose I was doing to raise it to the target at first. I have to dose about 1 ppm worth every day now to keep nitrate stable at 10 ppm.

Ahhh i gotcha. Sounds like I got some work ahead of me haha thank you!

 

[Formulator]

Is phosphate is considered food for coral. How come we have such a small range to play with? 0.01-0.1? Or 0.2? Why would more “food” be harmful? Just curious!

Its complex metabolism, but an interesting observation that with too much phosphate corals tend to turn brown. This is due to the zooxanthellae growth exploding to the point it drowns out all the color pigments in the coral so you just see the brown color of the zooxanthellae. So more food does fuel more growth at least for the coral symbiont, but in that case more growth is not better, its ugly. It also slows down coral skeleton growth, but I can’t remember the biological mechanism for that.

 

[joseph.timbs]

option 1a is Add fish option 1b feed more, another target feed corals so you can know they’re at least eating something. Couple other options; Dose neophos in the short term, turn off skimmer or use it less unless your depending on it for ph to stay above 7.8

 

[jayteerq]

option 1a is Add fish option 1b feed more, another target feed corals so you can know they’re at least eating something. Dose neophos in the short term, turn off skimmer or use it less unless your depending on it for ph to stay above 7.8

Definitely! My PH is naturally low ):

 

[Craig was here]

Is this a typo? You should be targeting 0.1 ppm phosphate. Having zero phosphate can invite dinos and will also starve your corals of a vital nutrient. Reef roids are very effective at raising phosphate. For a more precise measured dose, neophos works great. I’m kind of curious where they are going though. What kind of filtration are you running? Any media?

My tank is 3 months old. Had a Dino outbreak. I’ve used an entire bottle of neophos over the last month. Still 0 readings for phos. So ya, where’s it going lol.

 

[jayteerq]

My tank is 3 months old. Had a Dino outbreak. I’ve used an entire bottle of neophos over the last month. Still 0 readings for phos. So ya, where’s it going lol.

Similar scenario here. How’s your corals look?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I’m struggling to keep phosphates up. My nitrates are at 5 but phosphates 0. I feed heavy and feed coral food about twice a week. Phosphates popped up at 0.1 one week out of the 4 months I’ve been up and running. Without water changes, the phosphates disappeared. My question is, how detrimental can 0 phosphates be for LPS and SPS? Also, how can I keep my phosphates up and stable without exploding the numbers to something greater than .1*?

Alk - 9.3
Cal - 450
Mag - 1400

I think the real answer to this question is more complicated than most folks assume.

Corals have multiple sources of P, including inorganic phosphate, dissolved and particulate organics, and whole organisms such as bacteria and phytoplankton.

Corals must get enough P, but can get it from any or all of these sources, and no individual source needs to be at any particular level.

That said, many reef tanks do not have as much in the way of particulate coral food as present in the ocean, so reefs may need to rely on the only form we can easily measure: inorganic phosphate. I recommend 0.02 ppm to 0.1 ppm phosphate despite corals in the ocean thriving with less.

 

[jayteerq]

I think the real answer to this question is more complicated than most folks assume.

Corals have multiple sources of P, including inorganic phosphate, dissolved and particulate organics, and whole organisms such as bacteria and phytoplankton.

Corals must get enough P, but can get it from any or all of these sources, and no individual source needs to be at any particular level.

That said, many reef tanks do not have as much in the way of particulate coral food as present in the ocean, so reefs may need to rely on the only form we can easily measure: inorganic phosphate. I recommend 0.02 ppm to 0.1 ppm phosphate despite corals in the ocean thriving with less.

The problem with my tank currently is that I’m dosing phosphate using TM Phos Feed and phosphate will eventually show up (0.02-0.05) but then by next day once I retest, it’s back down to 0 again. I dream of a consistent phosphate level lol

 

[Craig was here]

Similar scenario here. How’s your corals look?

Just a few atm. Don’t look bad at all. But an entire bottle and still zero. Tank only had a water volume of approx 27 gallons. ‍

 

[Reeferbadness]

Yes! Sorry I meant to say I’m targeting 0.1. Not 0.01. I just recently started feeding reef roid! Hopefully that’ll show some changes! I have 4 filter socks (sucks btw) and a Tunze comline 9004 skimmer. Waterbox 65.4 AIO. And one of the chambers is a refugium. So yes I guess heavy on the filtration side as well which is probably not helping in this case lol

I had 4 filter socks (Red Sea 750 XXL) and replaced them with a ReefMat - life changing. Worth every penny of initial investment - now i only change the ReefMat 1x every 6 weeks or so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The problem with my tank currently is that I’m dosing phosphate using TM Phos Feed and phosphate will eventually show up (0.02-0.05) but then by next day once I retest, it’s back down to 0 again. I dream of a consistent phosphate level lol

While that TM product may work fine,, it isn’t directly adding detectable phosphate so it is hard to judge a needed dose.

I’d either add more, or switch to food grade sodium phosphate to give you assurance you are adding enough.

It can take a lot of any product to raise phosphate since some of it will bind to rock and sand.