High nitrates

[Treefer32]

It's a bit odd to do this especially for Nitrates. But I didn't see if you tested your water change salt water for nitrates? I know they go down, but if your water change water is 30 ppm and your tank water is 60 ppm, 50% of the water will go down to 30 and the other 50% would be at 60 giving your blended nitrate value of around 45.

That said, the good thing is that nitrates won't kill anything. It does take time for denitrifying bacteria to kick in. On my 340 gallon I had nitrates as high as 80 for a year with no real consequences. I did want them lower as I have a ton of corals and not sure how good it is for them long term.

It took me 6 months after building a denitrification factory for nitrates to finally start falling. Now, without any water changes my nitrates stay between 10 and 20 year over year.

My suspicion is time. Denitrifying bacteria seem to be the hardest to get started. They're awesome once they do though!

I would agree with others, change one thing at a time. You could try vinegar dosing to fuel denitrifying bacteria as well as removing the carbon.

 

[redseaenroute]

Have you tested Nitrites at all recently? Seeing as this tank is only 30 days in. I know when I went through my recent cycle my Nitrates where spiked out as my Nitrites stabilized. Understand that Nitrites are not much of a concern in marine aquarium, but I know they can cause high/inconsistent Nitrate readings while present. Once my Nitrites became undetectable, my Nitrate readings came WAY down (Hannah Checker)

 

[BFResende]

Very good approach! It might indeed be the Nitrites that are messing with my tests . I will buy a nitrite kit and then test them later today.

 

[splunty]

Have you tested Nitrites at all recently? Seeing as this tank is only 30 days in. I know when I went through my recent cycle my Nitrates where spiked out as my Nitrites stabilized. Understand that Nitrites are not much of a concern in marine aquarium, but I know they can cause high/inconsistent Nitrate readings while present. Once my Nitrites became undetectable, my Nitrate readings came WAY down (Hannah Checker)

I'm a relative newbie but I can second this. When my tank was starting to cycle, I could confirm that while both significant measurements of nitrites and nitrates were present, the nitrate readings presented artificially high readings on my ATI test kits. My neighbor used his Hanna and it read the same high reading. (FWIW, his Hanna only reads up to 5ppm -- does yours go higher? Do you have a model number?)

If you haven't already listened to it, this lecture from Dr. Tim Hovanec is rewardingly informative:

Dr. Tim's tips for speeding up fishless cycles

Just came across this youtube video of a talk Dr. Tim gave last year specifically on nitrifying bacteria and how to speed up your cycle by setting up your tank to ideal conditions for the nitrifying bacteria you are trying to jumpstart. I'm adding it here for anyone else who is just starting...

www.reef2reef.com

TL;DR: It takes days to weeks for the nitrifying bacteria that process ammonia into nitrites to populate significantly enough to maintain the cycle. Bacteria that process nitrites into nitrates can not even begin to populate until the former are well established, creating their necessary nutrient source. These bacteria also multiply significantly slower.

That matches my experience. Even as nitrates began to be detected, nitrites continued to rise for many days until the second "half" of the cycle (nitrites->nitrates) matured enough to keep up. Once nitrites started to drop, the absurdly high nitrate readings began to plummet as the testing error caused by the presence of nitrites corrected itself.

With all of that said, I'm just sharing my own experiences as a newbie. Don't trust me, but do trust Dr. Tim!

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

I'm using RODI water for the top off and saltwater for the water changes.

Are you making saltwater with RODI and a salt mix or buying saltwater already made? If the latter I'm wondering what that tests at..

 

[BFResende]

It's a bit odd to do this especially for Nitrates. But I didn't see if you tested your water change salt water for nitrates? I know they go down, but if your water change water is 30 ppm and your tank water is 60 ppm, 50% of the water will go down to 30 and the other 50% would be at 60 giving your blended nitrate value of around 45.

That said, the good thing is that nitrates won't kill anything. It does take time for denitrifying bacteria to kick in. On my 340 gallon I had nitrates as high as 80 for a year with no real consequences. I did want them lower as I have a ton of corals and not sure how good it is for them long term.

It took me 6 months after building a denitrification factory for nitrates to finally start falling. Now, without any water changes my nitrates stay between 10 and 20 year over year.

My suspicion is time. Denitrifying bacteria seem to be the hardest to get started. They're awesome once they do though!

I would agree with others, change one thing at a time. You could try vinegar dosing to fuel denitrifying bacteria as well as removing the carbon.

I didn’t actually test my saltwater for nitrates, but considering that when I did the 50% water change, the levels went from 65ppm to 29ppm, I can assume there are none.

Time is also my guess, but at the same time, my nitrates will go through the roof if I don’t take any measures.

 

[BFResende]

Are you making saltwater with RODI and a salt mix or buying saltwater already made? If the latter I'm wondering what that tests at..

I'm buying my saltwater from my coral local store.

 

[BFResende]

I'm a relative newbie but I can second this. When my tank was starting to cycle, I could confirm that while both significant measurements of nitrites and nitrates were present, the nitrate readings presented artificially high readings on my ATI test kits. My neighbor used his Hanna and it read the same high reading. (FWIW, his Hanna only reads up to 5ppm -- does yours go higher? Do you have a model number?)

If you haven't already listened to it, this lecture from Dr. Tim Hovanec is rewardingly informative:

Dr. Tim's tips for speeding up fishless cycles

Just came across this youtube video of a talk Dr. Tim gave last year specifically on nitrifying bacteria and how to speed up your cycle by setting up your tank to ideal conditions for the nitrifying bacteria you are trying to jumpstart. I'm adding it here for anyone else who is just starting...

www.reef2reef.com

TL;DR: It takes days to weeks for the nitrifying bacteria that process ammonia into nitrites to populate significantly enough to maintain the cycle. Bacteria that process nitrites into nitrates can not even begin to populate until the former are well established, creating their necessary nutrient source. These bacteria also multiply significantly slower.

That matches my experience. Even as nitrates began to be detected, nitrites continued to rise for many days until the second "half" of the cycle (nitrites->nitrates) matured enough to keep up. Once nitrites started to drop, the absurdly high nitrate readings began to plummet as the testing error caused by the presence of nitrites corrected itself.

With all of that said, I'm just sharing my own experiences as a newbie. Don't trust me, but do trust Dr. Tim!

My Hanna checker goes up to 100ppm.

The nitrites might actually be the problem.

 

[apb03]

If you change, let's say, 20% of your water per week in 5 weeks, you have changed 100% of your water. So, your nitrates will be stable at your average value. It will not go up indefinitely if you have a consistent export process.

My SPS tank runs between 40-50 ppm nitrate, and I have no issues. It's not a big deal, in my opinion. I believe the critical goal is stability rather than a specific number. Your nitrate will settle into a range once a consistent export method is established.

 

[Dipi]

If you change, let's say, 20% of your water per week in 5 weeks, you have changed 100% of your water. So, your nitrates will be stable at your average value. It will not go up indefinitely if you have a consistent export process.

My SPS tank runs between 40-50 ppm nitrate, and I have no issues. It's not a big deal, in my opinion. I believe the critical goal is stability rather than a specific number. Your nitrate will settle into a range once a consistent export method is establishe

Thats is not how WC works. If you you do 5 wc of 20% you would still have ~33% of original water. At every water change you also remove the water of previous water changed. So to know how much original water you have, the math is (1 - %wc)^(# WCs)

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

One other thing: I'm not sure if my skimmer is tuned correctly.

Depending on how often you were doing water changes, this may not be it even if off. You can post a video with the skimmer functioning and people can chime in as to how to tune it better. Some may even have experience with exact one.

 

[apb03]

Thats is not how WC works. If you you do 5 wc of 20% you would still have ~33% of original water. At every water change you also remove the water of previous water changed. So to know how much original water you have, the math is (1 - %wc)^(# WCs)

Fair enough; you are right. The point is that if you change the water regularly, it will eventually stabilize.

 

[BFResende]

Thats is not how WC works. If you you do 5 wc of 20% you would still have ~33% of original water. At every water change you also remove the water of previous water changed. So to know how much original water you have, the math is (1 - %wc)^(# WCs)

This is correct.

 

[GARRIGA]

Best I found to solve nitrates post cycle is adding some phosphates (if not present) and dosing carbon vs WC. Then continue dosing carbon to keep that at bay and use other means to solve phosphates since dosing carbon won't reduce that as quickly as nitrates but it will get reduced. Then a matter of what being kept. Not all reef inhabitants need low PO4.

Dosed PO4 via NeoPhos on a ratio of 10:1 NO3:O4 because at the time thought Redfield mattered but did work. No clue what the proper ratio is but one could experiment to avoid adding excess PO4.

 

[BFResende]

Depending on how often you were doing water changes, this may not be it even if off. You can post a video with the skimmer functioning and people can chime in as to how to tune it better. Some may even have experience with exact one.

Will do!

 

[Sdoutreefer]

I'm leaning towards high nitrites, or decomposition in your sand bed. Do you have a shallow bed? Or deep sand bed?

 

[AKReefing]

A recently cycled tank isn't necessarily fully cycled, with a stable bacteria culture. Most people rush to populate the tank with fish and corals, and think heavy feeding is the path to success, then wonder why their tank crashes.

That much nitrate is probably coming from one primary source--detritus--as a result of overfeeding. I would recommend moving the fish to another tank temporarily, or reduce feeding to an absolute minimum level until things stabilize to the point where you cantake actions to see where you're causing the problem. I actually feed my full 275G tank with a single 1cm frozen food cube a day (or every other day) and the fish are fat, healthy and growing.

Unless you plan on continually changing water, you need a proven nitrate export mechanism. Skimming helps, but isn't a solution in itself. Bacteria help, but dosing carbon isn't enough if you aren't continually monitoring and consistently dosing. Turf algae scrubbers are excellent options for nitrates and phosphates, as are DSBs (for nitrates only). There are others, but I haven't used them, personally.

 

[BFResende]

A recently cycled tank isn't necessarily fully cycled, with a stable bacteria culture. Most people rush to populate the tank with fish and corals, and think heavy feeding is the path to success, then wonder why their tank crashes.

That much nitrate is probably coming from one primary source--detritus--as a result of overfeeding. I would recommend moving the fish to another tank temporarily, or reduce feeding to an absolute minimum level until things stabilize to the point where you cantake actions to see where you're causing the problem. I actually feed my full 275G tank with a single 1cm frozen food cube a day (or every other day) and the fish are fat, healthy and growing.

Unless you plan on continually changing water, you need a proven nitrate export mechanism. Skimming helps, but isn't a solution in itself. Bacteria help, but dosing carbon isn't enough if you aren't continually monitoring and consistently dosing. Turf algae scrubbers are excellent options for nitrates and phosphates, as are DSBs (for nitrates only). There are others, but I haven't used them, personally.

No, the high nitrate levels were present before the fish were added, when there was only water in the tank. The problem is not related to food.

At a certain point, it’s actually better to have fish because they help strengthen the nitrogen cycle. Also, it's important to note that the cycle is continuous, so defining it as "fully cycled" can be a bit misleading.

I don't think there’s a need to introduce a refugium or algae scrubber for a tank of this size with only three fish at this time. It’s something to consider for the future, but not a priority right now.

 

[BFResende]

I'm leaning towards high nitrites, or decomposition in your sand bed. Do you have a shallow bed? Or deep sand bed?

The sand bed is about 3 cm deep and very clean. The fish have only been in the tank for one week.

 

[BFResende]

So, it seems the nitrites are the problem—they’ve gone through the roof. Let’s wait for the nitrite levels to decrease.