High Ca

[nickm]

Hi Randy, Hi Nick

just looked at the raw data, and can confirm a very high Calcium level.

However the measured level has a higher level of uncertainty, because we are already out of our calibrated range. Still if we are assuming a higher potential testing error (up to 10% is realistic in this case), the calcium level is way too high.

Both our methods used to measure calcium (in this case ICP-OES and Cation-IC) agree on the significantly elevated Calcium. So interferences etc can be ruled out 100%, since those methods use very different principles of measurement.

If you are using artificial rockwork/ceramics etc those might leach readily soluble forms of calcium, what could be the case here. Recommended would be water changes with a low Calcium salt (you can for example use Oceamo Corrector with zero Calcium, if you can obtain it at your location) and keeping a close eye on alkalinity.

best regards,
Christoph

EdIt: Since Sr is also so high i would think towards (accidental) overdosing of a Ca/Sr supplement

Christoph, thanks for the info I have actually done wc after that test.
I just sampled and mailed an ICP test #OCR221144 out this morning. So with the sample I took this morning I did 3 WC to hopefully bring it in range. Monday 11/27 10g wc, Tuesday 11/28 10g wc, Thursday 11/30 10g wc. Waited till this morning 12/4 to collect the sample and mail off first thing. Now as far as Ca goes I stopped dosing it Oct 9th.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, Christoph.

 

[nickm]

I’ll update when I get my ICP results.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

2-part I'm doing the Tropic Marin balling method with A and K trace elements. I use Red Sea carbon for water polishing.

How did you make that recipe, and how did you decide how much to be dosing?

Could it be as simple as adding a lot more of the calcium part than was needed? Dosing pump error? Wrong concentration used to make it? etc.

Did you ever test your new salt water?

 

[nickm]

How did you make that recipe, and how did you decide how much to be dosing?

Could it be as simple as adding a lot more of the calcium part than was needed? Dosing pump error? Wrong concentration used to make it? etc.

I followed Tropic Marins instructions to mix and for dosage and adjusted off Hanna checker. But stopped because when I started Reef Moonshiners and got an icp back with elevated ca I stopped dosing calcium since October. That’s also when I switched to salifert because my Hanna gave me bad numbers.

Did you ever test your new salt water?

I tested it but was over the limit with the salifert test. Didn’t know I could use another syringe of titrant to get the result's.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I followed Tropic Marins instructions to mix and for dosage and adjusted off Hanna checker. But stopped because when I started Reef Moonshiners and got an icp back with elevated ca I stopped dosing calcium since October. That’s also when I switched to salifert because my Hanna gave me bad numbers.

I tested it but was over the limit with the salifert test. Didn’t know I could use another syringe of titrant to get the result's.

So you used the exact tropic marin powder or liquid product, not a knock off, such as BRS?

One issue that may arise is that many recipes (such as my DIY recipe #1 that BRS uses) is twice as potent as the TM recipe. If you made up the calcium part to the higher potency, and dosed it based on alk at the normal potency, calcium would have been rising substantially.

 

[nickm]

So you used the exact tropic marin powder or liquid product, not a knock off, such as BRS?

One issue that may arise is that many recipes (such as my DIY recipe #1 that BRS uses) is twice as potent as the TM recipe. If you made up the calcium part to the higher potency, and dosed it based on alk at the normal potency, calcium would have been rising substantially.

No I’m using actual Tropic Marin powder.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No I’m using actual Tropic Marin powder.

how much did you dissolve in what volume?

 

[nickm]

how much did you dissolve in what volume?

Here is the screen shot I go off of every time I mix. But have not dosed part A or C since October. I weight out the powder on a digital scale then mix into a half gallon. Once fully dissolved I top off until the 1 gallon mark on the jug. Shake vigorously again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

When you were dosing it, how did you decide how much to dose?

 

[Miami Reef]

To match Randy’s DIY 2 part strength, you actually need 182g of balling part C in a gallon.

Here’s the math by Randy:

I've never looked into calculating how much Balling Part C to use or how concentrated they make it. I hope they didn't mess that up.

One can determine how much of the standard concentration TM Part C to use based on the alk or calcium potency.

Normal Balling full liquid recipe:

Balling Zwischenseite | Produktinformationen

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

Part A: Calcium chloride dihydrate (20,000 ppm Ca)
Part B: Sodium carbonate/sodium bicarbonate (2,800 °dH/l)
Part C: Sodium chloride free sea salt (~ 3,350 ppm Mg; ~ 980 ppm K)

Separately add equal amounts of all three solutions successively to the tank water daily (DO NOT MIX THE SOLUTIONS).

The addition of 1 fl.oz./30 ml of each solution will raise the calcium level of 10 US-gal./35 l by approx. 15 ppm and the alkalinity by 2.2 °dH.

My sodium hydroxide recipe (which is identical in potency to my recipe #1) has this potency:

30 mL of the calcium part to 10 gallons boosts calcium by 29 ppm
30 mL of the alk part boosts alk by 4.2 dKH.

Thus, my recipe is essentially twice as potent as normal balling (they are lower because it is less soluble bicarbonate in the alk part) and you should thus dose twice as much Part C per volume of the other parts as you would with normal Balling.

Hence, the BRS directions look correct in that regard.

 

[nickm]

When you were dosing it, how did you decide how much to dose?

I did the 30ml per 10gallon recommendation. Which was 180ml for my system. But was always reading low with my Hanna tester 25x range. That’s when I sent out an ICP and the first one showed 812. Waited about 4-5 wks w/o dosing Ca and sent a second test out, it came back at 902.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did the 30ml per 10gallon recommendation. Which was 180ml for my system. But was always reading low with my Hanna tester 25x range. That’s when I sent out an ICP and the first one showed 812. Waited about 4-5 wks w/o dosing Ca and sent a second test out, it came back at 902.

OK, So I think you were just overdosing.

30 mL per 10 gallon is not a specific starting dosing recommendation, IMO, but rather a way to calculate how much calcium is added. Many tanks will need less.

 

[nickm]

OK, So I think you were just overdosing.

30 mL per 10 gallon is not a specific starting dosing recommendation, IMO, but rather a way to calculate how much calcium is added. Many tanks will need less.

Ok, last week I did 3 10g water changes and the salifert test kit was reading 500. Wouldn’t it have diluted down the tank? The last mix(not this one) the Ca on a fresh mix was 420.

 

[nickm]

This just has me confused since the corals look good and I’ve had growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What do you think the total water volume is?

If it is 50 gallons, then a 10 gallon water change with 400 ppm water, starting at 900 ppm, will drop it to 800 ppm. Another will drop it to 720 ppm.

This is may take a number of changes to bring it down.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not think it is an emergency to bring it down, however, as long as you can maintain at least 7 dKH of alk.

 

[nickm]

What do you think the total water volume is?

If it is 50 gallons, then a 10 gallon water change with 400 ppm water, starting at 900 ppm, will drop it to 800 ppm. Another will drop it to 720 ppm.

This is may take a number of changes to bring it down.

I’m thinking it’s about 60 total. 40breeder display and 40breeder sump.

I do not think it is an emergency to bring it down, however, as long as you can maintain at least 7 dKH of alk.

Yes I’m maintaining my dkh at 8.1-8.3

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m thinking it’s about 60 total. 40breeder display and 40breeder sump.

Yes I’m maintaining my dkh at 8.1-8.3

I'd just keep dosing alk as needed to maintain it, do whatever regular water changes you normally do, and measure calcium occasionally to see if it is coming down.