high alkalinity low calcium and magnesium

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I suspect the issue is one of these:

1. Alkalinity in your water used to make the salt water, adding that alk to the salt mix alk to become excessive
2. Salinity much, much higher than 35 ppt
3. Alk measurement errors

Much less likely is a bad batch of salt showing up in both buckets. A batch that high would be a rare event.

 

[bford]

I suspect the issue is one of these:

1. Alkalinity in your water used to make the salt water, adding that alk to the salt mix alk to become excessive
2. Salinity much, much higher than 35 ppt
3. Alk measurement errors

Much less likely is a bad batch of salt showing up in both buckets. A batch that high would be a rare event.

Thank you...

Using Red Sea Alkalinity test that was just purchased a week ago. Counting drops seems straight forward. Test results have been consistent.

RODI Water = turns pale yellow on the first drop. A more pronounced yellow on the second. Multiple tests confirmed the result. Source water does not seem to be the culprit

Salinity is higher in the water change bucket. Mixing another batch at 1.024. Will let you know what I find out.

 

[bford]

Wanted to provide an update.... still not out of the woods yet. Had some success lowering pH both in the tank and in the change water.

Suspecting the Instant Ocean salt (purple) was the culprit, I purchased a new bucket. Tested the resulting water and its 16-17 dkH. Salinity is 1.027 in the mixing bucket (still trying to raise in the main tank to 1.026)

Understand IO states alkalinity is 8-12 at 1.024, so I could potentially be higher with a higher salinity?

Will mix the next batch at 1.024 initially to confirm - but wondering if anyone has experienced higher alkalinity than advertised with IO?

Use muriatic acid or sodium bisulfate to lower the alkalinity to about 3dKH. Change about 10-15% at a time. The pH of the water after aerating will be in the 7’s, so don’t do more than 15% in one shot.

Some folks will add some acid directly into the aquarium, but caution is warranted to ensure it is done VERY slowly and overtime.

The first method above is much safer.

Mystery continues with the Instant Ocean Purple when mixing change water.... with salinity @ 35 ppt, the dkH is still at 17 in the 5 gallon bucket. I even had my wife perform the test to see if I was doing something wrong. She got the same results.

As for the main tank, been using 3/4 teaspoon Sachem ions to reduce alkalinity in the change water. Have done that a few times now and main tank is 15 dkH. I will keep this regimen up until a find the balance of alkalinity in a reasonable range.

Question: does IO purple have a shelf life in the store? If it sat too long without being used would that have an impact on higher alkalinity??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are you using?

 

[Miami Reef]

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are you using?

Can you use a saltwater alkalinity test kit to measure freshwater?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you use a saltwater alkalinity test kit to measure freshwater?

Possibly not the Hanna, but an ordinary alk titration kit is close enough in fresh water.

 

[bford]

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are yo

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are you using?

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are you using?

I may have mis-spoke. Here is the link to the magnesium additive.

aquavitro - ions

www.aquavitro.com

 

[homer1475]

I've used IO purple box for roughly 20 years. Never had it mix any higher then 12DKH @ 1.025 - 1.026(typically in the 10 range).

I've found it to be so consistent that I dump 12ml of muriactic acid into my mixing bin without even testing it.

Either your mixing a lot higher then you think you are, or you have a bad batch of salt. Out of curiosity, is this a bucket of salt, or the 200G box with 4 bags in it? If the latter, stratification of the elements is a real thing in buckets of salt.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I may have mis-spoke. Here is the link to the magnesium additive.

aquavitro - ions

www.aquavitro.com

That product should not reduce alkalinity. Why do you think it does?

 

[bford]

No, alk cannot ever rise on aging a salt mix, only fall.

when you say “Seachem ions” what product are you using?

That product should not reduce alkalinity. Why do you think it does?

That product should not reduce alkalinity. Why do you think it does?

I've used IO purple box for roughly 20 years. Never had it mix any higher then 12DKH @ 1.025 - 1.026(typically in the 10 range).

I've found it to be so consistent that I dump 12ml of muriactic acid into my mixing bin without even testing it.

Either your mixing a lot higher then you think you are, or you have a bad batch of salt. Out of curiosity, is this a bucket of salt, or the 200G box with 4 bags in it? If the latter, stratification of the elements is a real thing in buckets of salt.

@homer1475. Can you say more about the stratification of elements in buckets of salt? If salt remains unused, what impact might that have when I go to mix?

 

[bford]

That product should not reduce alkalinity. Why do you think it does?

Clarification: Using 3/4 teaspoon Seachem Acid Buffer to reduce dkH in change water. Using Magnesium to raise the level in the main tank. Magnesium seems to be lagging behind calcium and Alkalinity "ideal parameters" in the main tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@homer1475. Can you say more about the stratification of elements in buckets of salt? If salt remains unused, what impact might that have when I go to mix?

Salt mixes can settle during shipping, and it is prudent to mix them up a bit before use, or make up the whole bucket/bag, but i doubt that is your issue unless you are makign up a very small part of a bucket.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Clarification: Using 3/4 teaspoon Seachem Acid Buffer to reduce dkH in change water. Using Magnesium to raise the level in the main tank. Magnesium seems to be lagging behind calcium and Alkalinity "ideal parameters" in the main tank.

OK, that's a fine plan. Are you measuring the alk in that new water?

 

[bford]

Salt mixes can settle during shipping, and it is prudent to mix them up a bit before use, or make up the whole bucket/bag, but i doubt that is your issue unless you are makign up a very small part of a bucket.

Thank you for the tip. will stir before making the next batch

 

[bford]

OK, that's a fine plan. Are you measuring the alk in that new water?

Yes - measuring the alkalinity in the new water. Still have variables dialing in and refining the consistency of the new batch with addition of acid buffer. The resulting dkH has varied a bit, so hesitant to provide details yet.

What I can say is that the dkH in the main tank is now hovering around 15-16 dkH with 5 gallon water changes every couple days. Intention is to conduct a couple more water changes with water in the 7-8 dkH range until the main tank gets in the 12 range. Then, let the tank go on its own to see if alkalinity rises.

Any other thoughts or suggestions are appreciated!