Help with SPS - they always die

[KirM]

Hi Everyone,

I would appreciate your thoughts.

I have a 137 Gallon reef tank that is just about 15 months old. I have all reef safe fish. I have 4 LPS corals that are doing very well. I have lost many SPS corals - they live for a few days to about 2 weeks then die. I tried hammer corals twice a few months ago but they died within 24 hours of being placed in the tank.

I have a GHL system that doses Alk and Mag (newly started dosing). I was previoulsy testing calcium and magnesium and nitrate with a Hannah tester until I got the ION D used. The nitrate readings have been very very different with the ION D vs the Hannah tester. The ION D reads between 10 and 12ppm and the Hannah tester around 23.6 ppm. I used the reference bottle from GHL to confirm the readings from the GHL ION D probe. I need a new ION D probe as it no longer measures calcium. The last calcium test a few weeks ago on the Hannah tester was about 460.

Current readings with the ION D, sensors and KH director:
Temp 78.9F
pH 8.34
Salinity 1.026
KH Director: 9.6 dKH
Nitrate 11-12 mg/L
Magnesium 1,235 mg/L (working on improving this)
Sodium 9,711

I have a protein skimmer and sea lettuce in a refugium the light is on about 10 hrs a day to try to improve growth of the sea lettuce. I had chaeto but that was not growing. I also added a pump in the refugium to try and get the macroalgae moving. The light is from BRS and designed for macroalgae growth.

I have 2 lights attached to the tank both Radion XR15w G6 Pro. The lights are on a preprogrammed cycle for coral health and growth. There are also 2 MP40Ls that go through different cycles during the day.

The tank is automatically topped up with RO-DI water.

I would like to have SPS corals but in the past few months they all die. I have not tried any in the past 3 months or so.

Thank you!

 

[Formulator]

Typically, when someone can keep LPS but has problems with SPS, it comes down to stability, lighting or flow. Stability being the #1. For example, a daily swing of just 0.5 dkh has been known to kill some sensitive SPS. Your Alk is quite high (not too high, but higher than I would recommend for a beginner). Higher alk is more difficult to keep stable and less forgiving to swings in nutrient levels. Your lighting seems sufficient, but where have you been placing corals height-wise? 2 MP40s should be sufficient flow if you have them turned up. Sounds like you are already working on it, but get the mag up to at least 1300 ppm. That won’t cause the losses you are experiencing though.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

A couple of things from me before the more experienced coral-keepers jump in here:

-Hammer corals are LPS, not SPS, as they have large polyps; regardless, them dying within 24 hours seems odd to me.

-What is your phosphate level?

-The usual suspects for these sorts of issues are lighting (PAR and spectrum; photoperiod isn't usually an issue), flow, and parameters (both the actual numbers and the stability of the numbers over time). So, having already asked for phosphate readings, what PAR do you have in the tank? What spectrum are you running and for how long? What exact settings do your powerheads run throughout the day?

 

[SliceGolfer]

Two XR15s on a 137 gallon tank? That's not much light.

 

[KirM]

Typically, when someone can keep LPS but has problems with SPS, it comes down to stability, lighting or flow. Stability being the #1. For example, a daily swing of just 0.5 dkh has been known to kill some sensitive SPS. Your Alk is quite high (not too high, but higher than I would recommend for a beginner). Higher alk is more difficult to keep stable and less forgiving to swings in nutrient levels. Your lighting seems sufficient, but where have you been placing corals height-wise? 2 MP40s should be sufficient flow if you have them turned up. Sounds like you are already working on it, but get the mag up to at least 1300 ppm. That won’t cause the losses you are experiencing though.

My GHL system keeps values pretty stable, but I can reduce the Alk and have a nominal value set at 9.0 dKH.

I have not gotten my hand on a PAR meter as yet but that is on the list. I have placed SPS corals all over the tank but they never survive irrespective of where I place them.

The MP40s are on either end of the tank and go through different cycles throughout the day, gyro, pulse, etc etc.

 

[DanyL]

Two XR15s on a 137 gallon tank? That's not much light.

This is likely the cause.

XR15s are only 90W each, and you’re likely running them even lower. Moreover the spread of G6 is so wide that it hugely compromised their intensity.

If you have free access to a PAR meter you can easily validate this, otherwise - I would invest on better lighting straight ahead and rent a PAR meter to make measurements before and after installation.

If you want to stretch it further, you can try to place frags right under and as close as possible to the fixtures, on 100% intensity it should be enough.

 

[topjimmy]

What part of Ohio?

 

[KirM]

A couple of things from me before the more experienced coral-keepers jump in here:

-Hammer corals are LPS, not SPS, as they have large polyps; regardless, them dying within 24 hours seems odd to me.

-What is your phosphate level?

-The usual suspects for these sorts of issues are lighting (PAR and spectrum; photoperiod isn't usually an issue), flow, and parameters (both the actual numbers and the stability of the numbers over time). So, having already asked for phosphate readings, what PAR do you have in the tank? What spectrum are you running and for how long? What exact settings do your powerheads run throughout the day?

I mentioned the hammer corals because of the LPS corals that I have put in the tank those do not live past 2-3 days. Some have died within 24 hours.

Phosphate I need to get another kit as the ION D phosphate test does not work (new probe on order). It was not high last time I checked but that was a few weeks ago. No new corals purchased in about 3 months.

The MP40 on the left of the tank spends 4 hrs on lagoon, 6hrs on Reef crest, 2 hrs on gyre, 2 hrs on nutrient transport, about 4 hrs on tidal swell and about 4.5 hrs on lagoon. Lagoon modes are at night.

The MP4o on the right side of the tank is on lagoon for about 12hrs on lagoon, about 2 hrs on gyre, 2.5 hrs on tidal swell, and about 3hrs on lagoon. Lagoon is at night.

Lights are at 80%. I forget which setting they are on, but I am using one of the templates provided in the lights app.

 

[KirM]

What part of Ohio?

Columbus

 

[KirM]

This is likely the cause.

XR15s are only 90W each, and you’re likely running them even lower. Moreover the spread of G6 is so wide that it hugely compromised their intensity.

If you have free access to a PAR meter you can easily validate this, otherwise - I would invest on better lighting straight ahead and rent a PAR meter to make measurements before and after installation.

If you want to stretch it further, you can try to place frags right under and as close as possible to the fixtures, on 100% intensity it should be enough.

I have not used a PAR meter, I need to get that to confirm.
I have the two Radion XR15w G6 Pro on an 80% schedule intensity.

 

[KirM]

I have not used a PAR meter, I need to get that to confirm.
I have the two Radion XR15w G6 Pro on an 80% schedule intensity.

I forgot to mention that I have a diffuser on both of them.

 

[topjimmy]

Columbus

Shucks, I'm in the NE thought maybe I could help with the par meter.

 

[DanyL]

I forgot to mention that I have a diffuser on both of them.

A diffuser would reduce PAR even further.

Also, I forgot to mention on my previous comment - while I haven’t been following the progress of the Ion Director lately, from what I remember there were quite a few problems with the device giving inconsistent or incorrect results. I’m not sure if you can rely on it or not.

 

[jnbrex]

It's almost certainly the lighting. XR15s are not very powerful lights. You'd need at least 4, probably 6 to keep SPS in a 137g tank.

You can use PAR meter to confirm, but I already know what you'll find - very low PAR except for right under each light.

 

[KirM]

Shucks, I'm in the NE thought maybe I could help with the par meter.

Ugh. Thank you for the thought though!

 

[Saltees]

I'm running 4 XR15 G5 PRO for 12 hours daily with AB+ profile on my 130+ Gal Tank. Grows SPS immediately after one month of cycling. Tank currently at 6 month mark.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Hi Everyone,

I would appreciate your thoughts.

I have a 137 Gallon reef tank that is just about 15 months old. I have all reef safe fish. I have 4 LPS corals that are doing very well. I have lost many SPS corals - they live for a few days to about 2 weeks then die. I tried hammer corals twice a few months ago but they died within 24 hours of being placed in the tank.

I have a GHL system that doses Alk and Mag (newly started dosing). I was previoulsy testing calcium and magnesium and nitrate with a Hannah tester until I got the ION D used. The nitrate readings have been very very different with the ION D vs the Hannah tester. The ION D reads between 10 and 12ppm and the Hannah tester around 23.6 ppm. I used the reference bottle from GHL to confirm the readings from the GHL ION D probe. I need a new ION D probe as it no longer measures calcium. The last calcium test a few weeks ago on the Hannah tester was about 460.

Current readings with the ION D, sensors and KH director:
Temp 78.9F
pH 8.34
Salinity 1.026
KH Director: 9.6 dKH
Nitrate 11-12 mg/L
Magnesium 1,235 mg/L (working on improving this)
Sodium 9,711

I have a protein skimmer and sea lettuce in a refugium the light is on about 10 hrs a day to try to improve growth of the sea lettuce. I had chaeto but that was not growing. I also added a pump in the refugium to try and get the macroalgae moving. The light is from BRS and designed for macroalgae growth.

I have 2 lights attached to the tank both Radion XR15w G6 Pro. The lights are on a preprogrammed cycle for coral health and growth. There are also 2 MP40Ls that go through different cycles during the day.

The tank is automatically topped up with RO-DI water.

I would like to have SPS corals but in the past few months they all die. I have not tried any in the past 3 months or so.

Thank you!

G6 pro's don't need defusers. They were designed to have greater spread and sacrificed depth lighting.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

In a 75 gallon 4ft I have run an XR15, two viparspectra and T5 all at once for SPS. I changed back to just 6 bulb T5 and reef is doing awesome.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi Everyone,

I would appreciate your thoughts.

I have a 137 Gallon reef tank that is just about 15 months old. I have all reef safe fish. I have 4 LPS corals that are doing very well. I have lost many SPS corals - they live for a few days to about 2 weeks then die. I tried hammer corals twice a few months ago but they died within 24 hours of being placed in the tank.

I have a GHL system that doses Alk and Mag (newly started dosing). I was previoulsy testing calcium and magnesium and nitrate with a Hannah tester until I got the ION D used. The nitrate readings have been very very different with the ION D vs the Hannah tester. The ION D reads between 10 and 12ppm and the Hannah tester around 23.6 ppm. I used the reference bottle from GHL to confirm the readings from the GHL ION D probe. I need a new ION D probe as it no longer measures calcium. The last calcium test a few weeks ago on the Hannah tester was about 460.

Current readings with the ION D, sensors and KH director:
Temp 78.9F
pH 8.34
Salinity 1.026
KH Director: 9.6 dKH
Nitrate 11-12 mg/L
Magnesium 1,235 mg/L (working on improving this)
Sodium 9,711

I have a protein skimmer and sea lettuce in a refugium the light is on about 10 hrs a day to try to improve growth of the sea lettuce. I had chaeto but that was not growing. I also added a pump in the refugium to try and get the macroalgae moving. The light is from BRS and designed for macroalgae growth.

I have 2 lights attached to the tank both Radion XR15w G6 Pro. The lights are on a preprogrammed cycle for coral health and growth. There are also 2 MP40Ls that go through different cycles during the day.

The tank is automatically topped up with RO-DI water.

I would like to have SPS corals but in the past few months they all die. I have not tried any in the past 3 months or so.

Thank you!

First, I don't trust the results from the ION D. Sorry.
Even if I did I'd recommend backup tests to check it.

Salifert tests for Alkalinity and Nitrate, and Hanna for Phosphate.

How are you checking salinity?
I ask as Sodium seems low.

Please do not rely on the GHL salinity probe unless you have checked it against another instrument.

Other have commented that you do not appear to have sufficient light, and I agree.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

My GHL system keeps values pretty stable, but I can reduce the Alk and have a nominal value set at 9.0 dKH.

I have not gotten my hand on a PAR meter as yet but that is on the list. I have placed SPS corals all over the tank but they never survive irrespective of where I place them.

The MP40s are on either end of the tank and go through different cycles throughout the day, gyro, pulse, etc etc.

how do you recieve your coral what's your steps before they go in your tank? what parameters are they coming from? it may be a dipping issue or stress it happens alot.