Help with RODI issue

[ScottD]

I have a 50gpd aquatic life RO buddy filter with DI hooked up to a smart buddy booster pump. I hooked it up, flushed the carbon and sediment filters and then the ro membrane per instructions. I have made about 40 gallons of water so far and the DI cartridge has been depleted already. I have a HM triple tds meter installed and getting the following: 52ppm tds after the carbon filter, 5ppm after ro filter and was getting 0ppm after DI until I noticed it was depleted and getting 2ppm currently. We are on a well, with water temperature around 60 degrees. I timed my production on both filtered water and waste water and getting a ratio of around 1:1.1 filtered to waste. It took approximately 12 minutes to produce a gallon of filtered water, giving me a daily production of around 120gpd on a 50gpd membrane which seems quite high to me. What can I do, because I shouldn’t be going through DI cartridges this quickly right? And should I be over producing by that much?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Does not sound correct. Sounds like water may not be going through the RO membrane properly. I'm not an expert on the to buddy system. I would start from scratch and go back through all of the connections and make sure the membrane is hooked up properly.

 

[ScottD]

Does not sound correct. Sounds like water may not be going through the RO membrane properly. I'm not an expert on the to buddy system. I would start from scratch and go back through all of the connections and make sure the membrane is hooked up properly.

Thanks, I have gone through everything and double checked it. Also removed the membrane and reinserted it and still showing 5ppm afterwards.

 

[deutchriffer]

Does the RO buddie have pressure gauges?

Would be worth seeing what pressure you’re getting into the membrane, at my place I was getting 30psi so it wasn’t even running through the membrane, the booster pump then got me up to 95psi (I run 2 membranes) so ended up 70psi to the second, I’m told it needs to be at least 50-70psi (don’t quote me on that) I just know low pressure could be a factor.

If it’s the RO buddie with built in booster pump might be worth seeing if that’s actually turning on, and/or if the pressure screw is where it needs to be

 

[KStatefan]

On a well it is possible that your water is high in CO2 and use up the DI fast. I do not think the RO Buddy has a very big DI. You also should be getting much less TDS after the membrane but I do not know the specs for their membranes. With a filmtec membrane I would expect 2 or less.

 

[ScottD]

Does the RO buddie have pressure gauges?

Would be worth seeing what pressure you’re getting into the membrane, at my place I was getting 30psi so it wasn’t even running through the membrane, the booster pump then got me up to 95psi (I run 2 membranes) so ended up 70psi to the second, I’m told it needs to be at least 50-70psi (don’t quote me on that) I just know low pressure could be a factor.

If it’s the RO buddie with built in booster pump might be worth seeing if that’s actually turning on, and/or if the pressure screw is where it needs to be

No it does not have a pressure gauge. I can tell it’s working because it’s a separate unit and doesn’t allow any water to flow unless it’s plugged in and running. Also I’m getting way more that I’m supposed to so it’s not a low pressure issue. From my understanding, the lower the pressure the more waste water is produced. I’ve looked through the instructions and nowhere does it talk about a way to adjust the pressure and I didn’t see anywhere on the outside of the unit where you could make adjustments.

 

[ScottD]

On a well it is possible that your water is high in CO2 and use up the DI fast. I do not think the RO Buddy has a very big DI. You also should be getting much less TDS after the membrane but I do not know the specs for their membranes. With a filmtec membrane I would expect 2 or less.

They claim 98% rejection rate on their filters so the 90% I’m getting seems a little low to me. I wondered about the CO2 possibility, maybe I’ve got a couple different issues going on here.
The DI cartridge holds about 0.5 Lbs of media, not sure how that relates to others.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Are you sure you have the pump unit hooked up properly, this is a complicated setup. I know it took me awhile to get figured out.

 

[ScottD]

Are you sure you have the pump unit hooked up properly, this is a complicated setup. I know it took me awhile to get figured out.

Yes I double checked it, it all looked correct. I’m also getting around a 1:1.1 filtered to waste water ratio as the instructions state. I assume that would be off if I had something mixed up.

 

[ScottD]

@Buckeye Hydro any chance you could take a look at this and chime in. I’m thinking the depletion is from CO2, but not sure on the rest.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Neither of those pieces of equipment are something I would recommend.
Have you given your vendor an opportunity to help you?

Russ

 

[ScottD]

Thanks Russ. Yes I have reached out to them. They said the the fast depletion is probably from CO2. They also told me that because it’s a new membrane that my rejection rate could be lower. They also suggested that maybe the membrane wasn’t seated properly or my supply pressure is high is why I’m getting 2.5x the rated water. I double checked that it was in all the way it is was and my pressure tank switch for the house is set at 40/60 psi so I wouldn’t consider that high pressure.

 

[ScottD]

The more I think about this, the more I wonder if I ended up with a 100gpd membrane that mistakenly was labeled as a 50gpd. That would explain my production rate and that I’m getting a slightly lower rejection rate. Moving forward I think I will be adding a second DI canister on with just anion resin in it. I might build a degasser as well when I have more time, right now I just want to get the tank filled and going.

Thanks everyone who chimed in here, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Pull the membrane out and look at the sticker on the side - this will tell you if you have a 50 gpd or a 100 gpd.

Did the system come with an "off-brand" membrane? If so the spec pressure is likely 60 or 65 psi.

What is your feedwater pressure that reaches the membrane?

Your system should not be configured to produce anything close to a 1:1, but who knows how they configure those systems. Tell me the spec capacity of the membrane and tell be the color of /or the capacity of your flow restrictor.

Let's start there.

Hopefully you'll appreciate the benefits of working with a water treatment company!

Russ

 

[ScottD]

Pull the membrane out and look at the sticker on the side - this will tell you if you have a 50 gpd or a 100 gpd.

So the sticker on the membrane says 50gpd. I sent them a picture of the end and they think it’s actually a 100gpd that got mislabeled. I’m not sure the brand of the filter though.

Did the system come with an "off-brand" membrane? If so the spec pressure is likely 60 or 65 psi.

They told me the ro membrane can handle up to 100psi.

What is your feedwater pressure that reaches the membrane?

I just bought a pressure gauge yesterday and will hook it up today to see what it is.

Your system should not be configured to produce anything close to a 1:1, but who knows how they configure those systems.

Just the filter is 1:3.5. With the addition of the smart buddy unit they state it (filtered:waste) should be 1:1.2 (50gpd) or 1:1.1 (100gpd).

Tell me the spec capacity of the membrane and tell be the color of /or the capacity of your flow restrictor.

The manual states it’s a 300cc restrictor but it’s inside the smart buddy unit so can’t verify.

Let's start there.

Hopefully you'll appreciate the benefits of working with a water treatment company!

Russ

If I do have the wrong size membrane, that would explain why I’m getting much more production through the filter than I was anticipating. A 1.2x production is gain is reasonable vs a 2.5x gain. Also wouldn’t a higher flow rate have a lower rejection rate and therefore see more tds after the ro membrane?

 

[KStatefan]

If I do have the wrong size membrane, that would explain why I’m getting much more production through the filter than I was anticipating. A 1.2x production is gain is reasonable vs a 2.5x gain. Also wouldn’t a higher flow rate have a lower rejection rate and therefore see more tds after the ro membrane?

That would depend on the membrane so you would have to look at the specs.

A filmtec TW30-1812-100HR is speced at 98% rejection while the TW30-1812-50HR is 99%.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

So the sticker on the membrane says 50gpd. I sent them a picture of the end and they think it’s actually a 100gpd that got mislabeled. I’m not sure the brand of the filter though.

They told me the ro membrane can handle up to 100psi.

I just bought a pressure gauge yesterday and will hook it up today to see what it is.

Just the filter is 1:3.5. With the addition of the smart buddy unit they state it (filtered:waste) should be 1:1.2 (50gpd) or 1:1.1 (100gpd).

The manual states it’s a 300cc restrictor but it’s inside the smart buddy unit so can’t verify.

If I do have the wrong size membrane, that would explain why I’m getting much more production through the filter than I was anticipating. A 1.2x production is gain is reasonable vs a 2.5x gain. Also wouldn’t a higher flow rate have a lower rejection rate and therefore see more tds after the ro membrane?

There's a lot going on here - please give us a call when you are in front of the system