Help needed ‍♀️ high ammonia

[brandon429]

people who move tanks (and most forum peer cycle umpires) assume the disturbing of the sand transfer spikes ammonia for weeks after the event, was heading off that assumption. per pics and known duration of the system/can't be in ammonia distress/not possible. trying to reinforce that fact so that disease preps like you're seeking info on can be the new concern here.

we move away from extended cycling concerns, and into other troubleshoots that are relevant for the presentation

 

[Zokki]

Did you move the sand and all the water with you?

Yes I empty it and add it water so it’s probably new cycle

 

[MnFish1]

Yes I empty it and add it water so it’s probably new cycle

How long ago was the move - and how long did it take - are you saying that the sand and rocks were dry when you moved the tank?

 

[Zokki]

No one mentioned sand-beds or rocks storing ammonia. The key is/was (IMHO) - 1. His fish had Ich, 2. He does have dying coral. 3. Most importantly - he moved the tank from one location to another. Usually - unless there was a long delay, etc - (as I said) this should not be an issue. But we don't know the information.

IMHO - it is a symptom of a problem in the tank (the low level of ammonia) - rather than the CAUSE of the problem. Obviously - we know there are problems from his post. Of course it could be a false reading - but the High nitrate is coming from somewhere. - and depending on when the reading was taken, could reflect an ammonia spike in the past.

PS - if I took a picture of my tank (which I did in my ammonia experiments) - even with 4 ppm ammonia, Coraline algae etc looked 'fine'. Ammonia is not processed 'immediately'. Except for the sick fish and dying coral - I do agree with you - the tank 'looks fine'.

Curious - how did you treat the Ich? Could that have affected your invertebrates? (or did you use a hospital tank)? How long ago was the move? How long did the move take? In theory the bacteria in the rock should have survived enough to not have an ammonia problem. Did you keep it wet all the time - aeration? Could other things in the rock have died during transport - causing a rise in ammonia? was the high nitrate after or before the move - or unknown. If it was low before and high now that would suggest your ammonia detoxifying bacteria are 'working'.

The guy I bought it from was not even one hour away so the tank was all set up back in less than 2 hours. The gravel was in the tank all the time rocks was in the bucket and fish was in bags in a thermal box. For ich I bought uv light raised the temperature to 80 and add some ginger. The very first day I add one Bulgarian pill that I know from reef ceepers that work perfectly without damaging but I didn’t have enough to continue with it. It’s around a month now since ich is gone.

 

[Zokki]

How long ago was the move - and how long did it take - are you saying that the sand and rocks were dry when you moved the tank?

Rocks was sand was in the water covered with amount of water but the rocks was around 40 minutes in bucket

 

[Zokki]

Rocks was sand was in the water covered with amount of water but the rocks was around 40 minutes in bucket

It was more than 2 months ago

 

[Zokki]

I try to attach video from now. Kinda looks like fish are fine but interesting is that they are all swimming on the left side of the tank and only the red fish is going from time to time on the right side and I noticed it only now trying to take a good video. I’m wondering if there is something dead there

 

[brandon429]

this is not a cycle issue no matter how you slice it. you will be chasing red herrings for months until that concept is agreed upon. a water change of any degree does not recycle a tank. bacteria are adhered to rock surfaces and don't die even if you set rocks on the counter for eight hours.

 

[MnFish1]

this is not a cycle issue no matter how you slice it. you will be chasing red herrings for months until that concept is agreed upon. a water change of any degree does not recycle a tank. bacteria are adhered to rock surfaces and don't die even if you set rocks on the counter for eight hours.

Agree it's not a cycle issue - thanks Brandon. It's a multifactorial issue. A tank move - with no water - with no change of sand/rock. The key issue IMHO - is going forward - what is causing the problem. IMHO - the ammonia is a red-herring - so let's move beyond it. I think the ammonia is a symptom of a problem - not the cause of the problem. I might suggest that you consider moving your mindset from the idea that everyone thinks ammonia is a problem - and then you come and say 'no it's not'. IMHO - Ammonia at low levels in a tank suggests a problem - not that the ammonia is the CAUSE of the problem.

 

[MnFish1]

I try to attach video from now. Kinda looks like fish are fine but interesting is that they are all swimming on the left side of the tank and only the red fish is going from time to time on the right side and I noticed it only now trying to take a good video. I’m wondering if there is something dead there

If you can post a video of your tank on YouTube - then post the link - everyone can see it

 

[MnFish1]

It was more than 2 months ago

This would not explain the issue then - except the dying items in your tank - which seem to be continuing.

 

[Zokki]

Agree it's not a cycle issue - thanks Brandon. It's a multifactorial issue. A tank move - with no water - with no change of sand/rock. The key issue IMHO - is going forward - what is causing the problem. IMHO - the ammonia is a red-herring - so let's move beyond it. I think the ammonia is a symptom of a problem - not the cause of the problem. I might suggest that you consider moving your mindset from the idea that everyone thinks ammonia is a problem - and then you come and say 'no it's not'. IMHO - Ammonia at low levels in a tank suggests a problem - not that the ammonia is the CAUSE of the problem.

I hope I will find the problem before I loose it all.

 

[Zokki]

https://youtube.com/shorts/dQ7DYLYcLqE?feature=share video from today

 

[Zokki]

Fish tank

youtube.com

 

[MnFish1]

https://youtube.com/shorts/dQ7DYLYcLqE?feature=share video from today

The fish do not look like they have ammonia issues

 

[Zokki]

The fish do not look like they have ammonia issues

And quick update : my shrimp was dead in the morning probably is from all those water changes or all the adds in the water. I was going true videos and pictures since I have it and I can’t remember taking out one snail that was big. I’m wondering if that snail was push down from the rock from my algae bleny and is dead under the sand would that be the reason for whatever’s happening? I will dig the sand today after work and I hope I won’t make it worse

 

[MnFish1]

And quick update : my shrimp was dead in the morning probably is from all those water changes or all the adds in the water. I was going true videos and pictures since I have it and I can’t remember taking out one snail that was big. I’m wondering if that snail was push down from the rock from my algae bleny and is dead under the sand would that be the reason for whatever’s happening? I will dig the sand today after work and I hope I won’t make it worse

Would it be possible for you to do a timeline like this;

1. I moved the tank, etc (and how you did it exactly - how long it took, etc.
2. I re-set up the tank as follows (i.e. I used xxx filter, xxx sand, xxx skimmer, etc
3. A list of 'things that have died and about what day
4. A full list of your parameters (repeated today - pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, CA alkalinity, etc
5. any symptoms the fish might be having - and their approximate ages?

5.

 

[Zokki]

Would it be possible for you to do a timeline like this;

1. I moved the tank, etc (and how you did it exactly - how long it took, etc.
2. I re-set up the tank as follows (i.e. I used xxx filter, xxx sand, xxx skimmer, etc
3. A list of 'things that have died and about what day
4. A full list of your parameters (repeated today - pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, CA alkalinity, etc
5. any symptoms the fish might be having - and their approximate ages?

5.

1 . 27.01.2023 fish was in plastic bags, rocks was in buckets without water for around 1-2hr. Water from the tank was in drums. Gravel was in the tank with small amount of water. We came home connect all the pumps, filter and add the rocks and after the water. Then we turn on the heaters and wait to get the right temperature after that we add the fish. All set up was around 2 hr. He give us bag of sand with all the equipment so probably next day I add a little more sand.

2. Equipment was 2 heaters, 2 wave makers, Jbl 1502 e filter ( that was leaking). For the filter I bought a new one after 3 days and just change the top piece.

I bought probably two weeks after goby fish, star fish, shrimp, urchin and blue tang . The Man from the shop say it’s ok to add them together and it’s better because they won’t fight as if you add only one.he also say that when you buying urchin, shrimp,snails, star fish they don’t count. Anyway I add them and everything was fine for a week. I order protein skimmer Reef Octopus Classic 1000-HOB came with delay after 4 days. blue tang had ich straight away after I get him and so as my puffer fish. I bought uv light.
Someone kill my goby 8 days after I get him and I find it ( I don’t know how long after) after work and take it out. After that my puffer start eating the star fish and my corals start closing.
I bin the star fish probably around 10 days later because was following apart and next day urchin start loosing spines and I take him out next day. I wasnt sure if he’s dead but he look like he was. Since than I check parameters and no3 was high I add prime and stability, ammonia was high I add api ammonia lock, api quick start and did 4 times water change. First time was 1 drum with water, after 2 days 2 drums after 4 days 4 drums with water. Also 15 of March I had so many vermatid snails that I was scared off now they are all gone. I had 4 bumblebee snails they all are dead now and I’m missing one or 2 big snails that I can’t find. My shrimp I take out this morning. I give away my puffer because I didn’t like what he did with my star fish. I probably make mistake that I add them and they kinda are all gone now thinking about it. I have notes from
4/3/23
Ph - 8 -8,2
Salinity 1.026
Nh3/nh4- 0.2/0,4
Temperature 25,5

21/3/23
Ph-7.2
Salinity 1.025
Temperature 25,5
Nh3/nh4- 1,2
N03- 100
Kh -40

21/3/23 after water change

ph - 7,6
Kh -40
No2-1
No3- 25-50
Nh3/nh4 -0,4
Temperature- 25,3

30/3/23 after water change made on 29/3/23
no3-10
Temperature 25,3
Ph 8,2 - 8,6
Nh3/nh4 - 0,8 -1,2
I will run all the tests now fully with kn,mg,ca,po4

I was feeding them heavier when they had ich. I was giving them mysis I more often.
What I did is probably mistake after mistake but I hope can be still saved.
Fish was not so active and staying more around the bottom of the tank. Now they are a little more active and swimming. I have no cleaning crew only one crab and algae bleny left.
Fish have no spots and no visible sight of disease. Only my hawk fish is breathing heavily from time to time but I think that’s when he is stressed

 

[Zokki]

Today’s tests

 

[Zokki]

I find the issue. It’s metal piece that connects my uv light and my filter. I’m treating for copper now. Copper was the issue with my corals and cleaning my cleaning crew. The dad cleaning crew create the ammonia spike. I hope that’s all that it was