Help me pick some fish!!

[benthicBarbarian]

No. The hobby is all about the FISH and their care not the hobbyist so much. Because what I heard you say is “well it’s okay that the fish I really want is unhappy because I want it”. Not sure if thats what you meant but thats how it comes off as. Pick fish appropriate for your tank period. If you really want fish that are not appropriate for a 20 gallon maybe hold off on the hobby until you can get an appropriate size tank. Remember these are animals and they require proper care just like a dog or a cat and that trumps shoving fish in a tank that is too small for them is just like keeping a dog in a crate thats too small for him.

Well I apologize if I came off as “me want fish, me no care.” My point was a hypothetical about how it’s better to have a fish die because you actually made an effort to keep it alive vs. having a fish die because you neglected it. And keep in mind that all this was a rebuttal to your previous claim that was along the lines of, “wasting time and money on a fish that’s bound to die.” I fully understand that some tank sizes are incompatible with some fish. Im considering taking the cherub off the list just to set the record straight. I’m sorry for not being clearer

 

[NanoNana]

As wrasses go, a possum wrasse may be the better choice but many people keep pink streaks in 20 gallons.
Rainfordi or hectors goby, firefish, clown goby, pistol shrimp goby combos. everyone with a nano tank has a royal gramma. They can be territorial but in a 24” there should be plenty of room for a gramma to stake out a cave and “defend” it from the evil firefish. Put the gramma in last.
I wouldn’t do gramma, dotty AND damsel. Three fish that can be territorial jerks. If you opt for damsel, look at starcks damsel. Reputed to be very peaceful and the same colors as the azure. Springeri are also said to be easy going.

Unfortunately those of us with sub 75 gallon tanks miss out on many of the more colorful fish. I’ve made up for it by falling in love with my inverts (some of which won’t serve you well in a macro algae tank). I have a gramma, purple firefish, yellow clown goby and a rainfordi goby in a 24. The gramma bluffs at the firefish SOMETIMES and the firefish just turns his back and ignores it. I think it’s because the firefish is of similar size and has a similar swimming habit. It’s never aggressive during feeding and never toward the gobies. I watch the situation closely and will rehome one if it turns into full blown aggression or if the firefish starts acting like it’s stressed by the gramma.

 

[benthicBarbarian]

I love what you’ve done here. Very creative.

Unfortunately the cherub angel, pink streaked wrasse, and filefish will not be okay in that size tank.

The azure damsel should not be kept with the rest of the fish you are planning. Very territorial and the rest are mostly peaceful.

The royal gramma is not an aggressive fish! And. A great addition to the tank. There’s a very similarly colored fish that is very aggressive so the royal gramma is unjustly deemed aggressive because of that.

In a tank that size, a single cardinal fish would probably do better.

Interesting! Thank you so much for your insight.

So if you don’t mind me asking, why can’t a ORA white spotted Pygmy files be kept in a 20 long? I was planned on having a majority macroalgea tank because these guys are found in seagrass beds. I was also planning on adding it last when the tank matures so it can have plenty to pick on. Size and swimming space shouldn’t be an issue, unlike the other filefish species these guys are confused for. Could bio load be the issue? I hear files and puffers do create a lot of waste!

I really fell in love with the grammas! The complimentary colors are absolutely stunning! I initially added in the fangblenny because I wanted something similar looking in terms of body shape in case a gramma couldn’t work out. Lol!

Would a fangblenny be a good candidate if i weren’t to go with a gramma?

Thanks so much for the info!

 

[benthicBarbarian]

As wrasses go, a possum wrasse may be the better choice but many people keep pink streaks in 20 gallons.
Rainfordi or hectors goby, firefish, clown goby, pistol shrimp goby combos. everyone with a nano tank has a royal gramma. They can be territorial but in a 24” there should be plenty of room for a gramma to stake out a cave and “defend” it from the evil firefish. Put the gramma in last.
I wouldn’t do gramma, dotty AND damsel. Three fish that can be territorial jerks. If you opt for damsel, look at starcks damsel. Reputed to be very peaceful and the same colors as the azure. Springeri are also said to be easy going.

Unfortunately those of us with sub 75 gallon tanks miss out on many of the more colorful fish. I’ve made up for it by falling in love with my inverts (some of which won’t serve you well in a macro algae tank). I have a gramma, purple firefish, yellow clown goby and a rainfordi goby in a 24. The gramma bluffs at the firefish SOMETIMES and the firefish just turns his back and ignores it. I think it’s because the firefish is of similar size and has a similar swimming habit. It’s never aggressive during feeding and never toward the gobies. I watch the situation closely and will rehome one if it turns into full blown aggression or if the firefish starts acting like it’s stressed by the gramma.

Ohhh that stocking idea is not half bad! So do you think their aggression would balance out? Also, would a clownfish fill in a similar role as the damsel in this context?

Thanks so much for your input!

 

[crazyfishmom]

Interesting! Thank you so much for your insight.

So if you don’t mind me asking, why can’t a ORA white spotted Pygmy files be kept in a 20 long? I was planned on having a majority macroalgea tank because these guys are found in seagrass beds. I was also planning on adding it last when the tank matures so it can have plenty to pick on. Size and swimming space shouldn’t be an issue, unlike the other filefish species these guys are confused for. Could bio load be the issue? I hear files and puffers do create a lot of waste!

I really fell in love with the grammas! The complimentary colors are absolutely stunning! I initially added in the fangblenny because I wanted something similar looking in terms of body shape in case a gramma couldn’t work out. Lol!

Would a fangblenny be a good candidate if i weren’t to go with a gramma?

Thanks so much for the info!

Even in a mature 16 gallon display they would not do well long term. They produce a ton of waste and generally need more space.

Many gobies will do really well in a tank that size but a lot of blennies love swimming space and lots of nooks and crannies to explore so I normally like to keep them in 30-40 gallon tanks because of that but they could be happy in a 20 if given enough rock to interact with.

 

[littlefoxx]

Well I apologize if I came off as “me want fish, me no care.” My point was a hypothetical about how it’s better to have a fish die because you actually made an effort to keep it alive vs. having a fish die because you neglected it. And keep in mind that all this was a rebuttal to your previous claim that was along the lines of, “wasting time and money on a fish that’s bound to die.” I fully understand that some tank sizes are incompatible with some fish. Im considering taking the cherub off the list just to set the record straight. I’m sorry for not being clearer

I actually didnt say anything about wasting time or money…

 

[benthicBarbarian]

I actually didnt say anything about wasting time or money…

Oh it turns out I thought you were the other guy I was talking too! My bad!

 

[littlefoxx]

Regarding the filefish tank size:

 

[benthicBarbarian]

Even in a mature 16 gallon display they would not do well long term. They produce a ton of waste and generally need more space.

Many gobies will do really well in a tank that size but a lot of blennies love swimming space and lots of nooks and crannies to explore so I normally like to keep them in 30-40 gallon tanks because of that but they could be happy in a 20 if given enough rock to interact with.

Hey more waste = more food for the macros!!
(I’m also not afraid of extra water changes or replacing sponge often)

Btw Have you kept white spotted Pygmy’s? Do you have any tips on what they eat? Meatier foods I’m guessing?

I actually don’t want any gobies. They get recommended wayyyy too much. I’d also prefer to have fish in the water column.

Here’s what I’m now thinking about doing

-1 clown
- 1Aquacultured WS Pygmy file
- 1 royal gramma or fang blenny (whichever is in stock at my lfs first)

the various macro algae’s will provide lots of forage and hiding places for the file and blenny.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Hey more waste = more food for the macros!!
(I’m also not afraid of extra water changes or replacing sponge often)

Btw Have you kept white spotted Pygmy’s? Do you have any tips on what they eat? Meatier foods I’m guessing?

I actually don’t want any gobies. They get recommended wayyyy too much. I’d also prefer to have fish in the water column.

Here’s what I’m now thinking about doing

-1 clown
- 1Aquacultured WS Pygmy file
- 1 royal gramma or fang blenny (whichever is in stock at my lfs first)

the various macro algae’s will provide lots of forage and hiding places for the file and blenny.

I haven’t kept any myself but a colleague has one. This little guy eats mysis and loves oyster feast.

Solid list. You may need to increase tank size at some point if you find that the filefish is decimating all the macro algae and he’s not getting enough to eat.

Also, there are frozen food preps for angelfish that include sponge which would be good for filefish and might be something to look into.

 

[benthicBarbarian]

Regarding the filefish tank size:

Fine. Let’s say I got a 30 gallon Fiji AIO, both it and the 20 long are 2ft in length. The 20 long is just smaller front to back by about 4 inches and shorter in height by about 2 inches. I honestly don’t think it makes that big of a difference to a 3inch fish that isn’t really that active of a swimmer.

And if your worry is about waste, that’s why I had the macro algae. I’m also not against doing more work.

 

[benthicBarbarian]

I haven’t kept any myself but a colleague has one. This little guy eats mysis and loves oyster feast.

Solid list. You may need to increase tank size at some point if you find that the filefish is decimating all the macro algae and he’s not getting enough to eat.

Also, there are frozen food preps for angelfish that include sponge which would be good for filefish and might be something to look into.

Thank you so much! I’ll definitely be looking into the frozen angel formula for the filefish!

 

[NanoNana]

Ohhh that stocking idea is not half bad! So do you think their aggression would balance out? Also, would a clownfish fill in a similar role as the damsel in this context?

Thanks so much for your input!

I wouldn’t have a clown in my tank if you paid me to. (Well depending on how much you’d pay me to. Lol)
No, I didn’t mean the aggression would balance out. With 3 aggressive fish you may well just end up with constant warfare.

One of the keys with smaller tanks is to pick fish with different swimming habits.
Example: clowns with a nem will pretty much stay with their nem (or whatever they host) and protect an area of a specific size that they deem theirs. So if their nem is near the top of the tank, that area is theirs and any fish that crosses their little imaginary line is going to be VICIOUSLY attacked. So the clowns now own the upper part of the tank. Some fish like my firefish likes low mid tank and spends time in that region eating pods from the lower third of the water column. My court jester(rainfordi) goby is a swimmer, not a goby that stays in a den but it does stay near on on the bottom picking at algae on the glass or on low rocks. My clown goby sits on rocks, well mostly on my bernardopora but it doesn’t even close up when the goby is on it, so it’s out of everyone’s way and none of the other fish pay it any attention. My gramma swims the whole water column, top to bottom eating pods ALL DAY LONG. I swear it’s half mandarin. But its preferred area is lower half of the tank which crosses into where the firefish spends his days. Here is where the problems happen. Their territories overlap at times though the gramma prefers the back portion of the tank so territorial behavior is rare but does occur.

The problem with a 20 gallon long is your depth. Clowns are going to claim a big portion as are damsels, and grammas. If you divide it up evenly, that’s an 8” wide by 10” deep spot for each fish at best.

Gobies are recommended for nano tanks exactly as often as they should be. Most of them are the best fit for smaller tanks because of swimming habits. They don’t use and therefore don’t need a lot of space. It’s less about gallons of water and more about free horizontal swimming space in your tank. There are fish I would put in a standard 25 gallon tank that I’d never put in my 25 cube. But free horizontal swimming space is also affected by other fishes territorial behavior.

 

[littlefoxx]

Fine. Let’s say I got a 30 gallon Fiji AIO, both it and the 20 long are 2ft in length. The 20 long is just smaller front to back by about 4 inches and shorter in height by about 2 inches. I honestly don’t think it makes that big of a difference to a 3inch fish that isn’t really that active of a swimmer.

And if your worry is about waste, that’s why I had the macro algae. I’m also not against doing more work.

I just sent you what I found on a google search for their tank size since you asked about it… your tank you do you

 

[jabberwock]

Lots of opinions and suggestions here. There are sooo many variables that there is no cut and dry rules about fish behavior, but there are some pretty solid guidelines. Here is my 2 cents. (If I did not mention a particular fish, it's because I don't know)

1. Clownfish in smaller tanks is a bad idea.
2. Royal Grammas are hit or miss for aggression, but after having 4 of them that were jerks, I would not get another
3. Aggression leads to stress and disease.
4. Dotty backs are generally aggressive
5. I have never kept Cardinals because they are so darn ugly.
6. Pink Streaked Wrasse should be fine in a 20.
7. Think about a Possum Wrasse.
8. Think about a little bit bigger tank. I have an IM 25 gal lagoon, which is not as deep = more horizontal real estate (floor space). Check my tank thread if you want.
9. You also don't need as strong of lights for the lagoon.
10. Where will you get your macros from?
11. If you can do it, I would go with real ocean live rock.

Best of luck, and go slow, and then slow down. Then slow way down.

 

[NanoNana]

Fine. Let’s say I got a 30 gallon Fiji AIO, both it and the 20 long are 2ft in length. The 20 long is just smaller front to back by about 4 inches and shorter in height by about 2 inches. I honestly don’t think it makes that big of a difference to a 3inch fish that isn’t really that active of a swimmer.

And if your worry is about waste, that’s why I had the macro algae. I’m also not against doing more work.

Again, here you are talking about the dimensions of a cube tank vs a rectangle. I would not but a filefish in a 30 gallon cube either. A 30 gallon breeder is a much larger footprint. Generally 36”L x 18” W x 12” D. That is an entire foot more horizontal swimming space than your tank.
I

 

[VintageReefer]

Cube is worse than rectangle

Also I have a 15g peninsula with a single clown and there is no way in h e l l that I can have another fish. He’s extremely aggressive and claimed the entire tank and attacks me if my hand goes in for a moment. Every time. He bites me over and over and I can’t even flip over a frag without him attacking me

This is the devil but I love him

I’ve had the orange file fish in a 75 and he eats non stop and used the entire length of the tank exploring and grazing

What’s your total budget?

 

[stevenearlmcdonald]

Cube is worse than rectangle

Also I have a 15g peninsula with a single clown and there is no way in h e l l that I can have another fish. He’s extremely aggressive and claimed the entire tank and attacks me if my hand goes in for a moment. Every time. He bites me over and over and I can’t even flip over a frag without him attacking me

This is the devil but I love him

I’ve had the orange file fish in a 75 and he eats non stop and used the entire length of the tank exploring and grazing

What’s your total budget?

Have the same problem with my clown. Never had a clown as aggressive as this Wyoming White. I had to get some think gloves to wear when cleaning and I made an acrylic divider to separate myself from the beast. I also made an acrylic penalty box for "five for biting" ha! I haven't actually called a penalty on him yet but it's there and ready if I need it.

 

[VintageReefer]

Have the same problem with my clown. Never had a clown as aggressive as this Wyoming White. I had to get some think gloves to wear when cleaning and I made an acrylic divider to separate myself from the beast. I also made an acrylic penalty box for "five for biting" ha! I haven't actually called a penalty on him yet but it's there and ready if I need it.

I have definitely had to net him and wedge it in the sand against the glass so I can work on the tank. Also have long tongs to keep hands out. He attacks the tongs lol. What a devil

Gloves are a good idea.

Have had a clown in a 75 g and still had issues when other fish come near their territory. I had a 3” clown bite the eye out of a 4.5” wrasse. Complete. Removal.

 

[Dburr1014]

I have 2 Royal Grammas.
One is nice, active, doesn't take crap from anyone but is not by any means an aggresor. She is 10+ years old.
The other hides all day and night in a cave. If it was a person I would say she's depressed.