GFO - Phosphate question

[Engloid]

I have some small clumps of green hair algae. It's not the slim stuff, but looks like little clumps of grass. I don't have so much that it's a problem, but I don't want it to become a problem.

My blue hippo tang and yellow tang won't touch it.
My algae blenny won't touch it.
My phosphate tests at .25-.50ppm of phosphate.

I have been running an old eheim canister filter as a phosphate reactor, with GFO in it, for a couple months. Phosphate has stayed steady and is not on the increase now. However, I thought I would consider replacing the GFO with some new stuff...

However, what I'm reading is that this GFO will not break down and start letting phosphate back into the water, and that if can remain good for a few months, as long as it doesn't get saturated....which would lead to an increase in phosphate.


The package of the GFO states:
"WHen phosphate test results show levels of 1.0ppm, conditions become favorable for algae growth to start. At 2-3ppm, algae overgrowth is likely to occur."


The problem is that my phosphate levels won't go down any lower than they are now. I don't want to waste about $30 in GFO by replacing it now because I'm not getting an increase in phosphate. ...but based on the GFO label, that's probably not what's causing the algae growth.

 

[Jcr's Reef]

I personally would put the GFO in a TLF reactor so the pellets are constantly tumbling to ensure they are doing the job. What size tank are the hippo and tang in? Their waste will also add to the phosphate level.

 

[Engloid]

It's a 220 gallon tank. I have some other livestock in there also. I just mentioned them because they're typical vegetarians...but don't seem interested in eating this stuff.
The manufacturers' directions on GFO don't say anything about having the media tumbling. It just says you need flow through it. I have read other posts that suggest that a slow flow would be best to allow more contact time with the media. Actually, if it did tumble, I think I would run the risk of it breaking apart slowly, rather than being able to just absorb phosphate. If I wanted it to tumble though, all I'd have to do is not fill up the canister but maybe half way and it would problably allow movement. Right now, I have all the media in a bag, so that it can't tumble and won't come out in small particles if it breaks up.

 

[dougers31]

Get some brs gfo or the high capacity gfo(better, use less, but more expensive), and a good reactor(around $40). From the sound of it you may have byropsis or something similar. If so raising your mag with kent mag to 1550 could help fight the issue.

 

[RogerWilco357]

i hooked up the reactor from brs and got the gfo there also i had alot of hair algae and in a week to 2 weeks all is gone ..had to remove the clumps but they never came back after they clumped up..now i replace it every 2 months either way ..

 

[Engloid]

Get some brs gfo or the high capacity gfo(better, use less, but more expensive), and a good reactor(around $40). From the sound of it you may have byropsis or something similar. If so raising your mag with kent mag to 1550 could help fight the issue.

If I'm correct, brypsis is more of a brittle type. This stuff is more the kind that, when pulled out of water, turns into mushy slime...but looks a little more like grass inside the tank.

Can you explain how raising magnesium helps with algae. Not being smart, I really don't know.

 

[dougers31]

If I'm correct, brypsis is more of a brittle type. This stuff is more the kind that, when pulled out of water, turns into mushy slime...but looks a little more like grass inside the tank.

Can you explain how raising magnesium helps with algae. Not being smart, I really don't know.

That's the million dollar question... All I know is there are many threads on different forums about Kent mag helping to get rid of byropsis... not sure if anyone knows why it works as of yet. So what kind of cleanup crew do ya have in there?

 

[Engloid]

It's hard to get a count of exactly how many of different things I have, but here's some numbers I can throw out as a "best guess."

Red and blue leg hermits: probably 100-120
Astria snails: ~40-50
Turbo snails ~15
sea cucumbers: 3
sand sifting star: 1

 

[dougers31]

Huh. I know some astreas will take care of some types of filimentous algae... maybe try a couple of emeralds??? Otherwise pluck it out and keep up with gfo(usually lasts for maybe a month or so).

 

[modifyd]

I bet your GFO is saturated, with levels that high it doesn't take long. Also the GFO needs to tumble a little so it doesn't clump, but not so much that it starts to break apart either.

 

[Engloid]

IF my GFO was saturated, wouldn't I begin to see phosphate levels rise?

When I put the GFO in before, I put in a full 1lb container. The new stuff I have shows on the directions that all I need to put in is 1/4-1/2 cup per 100 gallons... which would mean about 3/4 cups for my 220 (55gal sump). Would it make sense that the GFO I put in, since I used much more than that amount, would last longer?

Or, on the other hand, with my phosphate being pretty constant, maybe the GFO is saturated, and since I'm using RO water, I'm not adding any significant amount of phosphate (through fish, food, etc), so it's remaining at a stable level. If that's the case, perhaps putting in some more GFO could lower the level and then it would mantain at that lower level, just as it does now.

Thanks for the help!!

 

[modifyd]

GfO doesn't release back into the water, The amount suggested is dependent on your initial levels and for maintenance levels, which yours are very high. Use Kalk in your top off water as that will help bind up some of your phosphates so your skimmer can remove some. You'll go through lots of GFO with that water volume before you get the levels under control, as the rock will leech it out until all is removed. Do a large water change before you put the new GFO in. You'll also need an actual reactor that you can control and view how much the GFO is tumbling. (I bet yours isn't enough)

 

[Engloid]

The thing I don't understand: You said my phosphate levels are high. It seems that most people say that anything over 0 is high. However, the manufacturer's label implies otherwise. I'm not arguing, it's just that I don't know which is true. Perhaps the manufacturer isn't right. I dunno.

I can see in this canister filter enough to tell if the stuff is tumbling. I think I will replace the gfo and put in less, and without a bag, so it will allow it to tumble. I can adjust the valves in and out to change flow rate.

You'll have to come by the house sometime for a cold brew and check out my setup. You may have some suggestions for me.

 

[modifyd]

Sounds good but it will be this summer as I'm working at Browns Ferry then one more outage after that. If you can get detectable reading with a chemical test kit then they are way to high for coral.

 

[Engloid]

Sounds good but it will be this summer as I'm working at Browns Ferry then one more outage after that. If you can get detectable reading with a chemical test kit then they are way to high for coral.

and with phosphate levels like I have, I have been told it can slow coral growth. Just how bad do you think it will slow growth?

 

[modifyd]

Not sure on slow growth, I do know that you need to get the levels down slowly as if you do it quickly then it would stress your coral to much and possibly cause your SPS to RTN.

 

[Engloid]

I took out the old GFO. I put some floss in the bottom of the canister. Then, inside the removeable part, I put a sponge in bottom. These two should help create a good cross-sectional flow. ..then the new GFO. I didn't put in any bag or anything on top of it that would prevent the GFO from moving or tumbling.

I'll give it a couple days and do another test.

 

[modifyd]

sounds good.

 

[cee]

0.25 ppm PO4 is quite high. As a point of reference, I tested mine yesterday, and it measured 0.024. Are you sure about your test kit? What kit are you using? If your numbers are right, you likely have phosphate locked up in your liverock and it will take quite awhile to remove it all, probably a year or so. I had that problem in the early days in my tank and never really understood the problem but was finally able to get it under control. Even to this day I have small clumps of algae in places where phosphates are still trapped in the rock.

Kent magnesium is the only product that wipes out the bryopsis. No one really understands why, but 2 parts and others do not, even if you get the Mg into the correct range. With a 220 gallon tank you're going to need a lot of it though, think a few gallons of the stuff. Raising your Mg will help with the algae a bit though.

Also, blue and yellow tangs are not the greatest algae eaters of all the tangs in the sea, they're actually some of the worst. Good luck.

 

[Engloid]

0.25 ppm PO4 is quite high. As a point of reference, I tested mine yesterday, and it measured 0.024. Are you sure about your test kit? What kit are you using? If your numbers are right, you likely have phosphate locked up in your liverock and it will take quite awhile to remove it all, probably a year or so. I had that problem in the early days in my tank and never really understood the problem but was finally able to get it under control. Even to this day I have small clumps of algae in places where phosphates are still trapped in the rock.

Kent magnesium is the only product that wipes out the bryopsis. No one really understands why, but 2 parts and others do not, even if you get the Mg into the correct range. With a 220 gallon tank you're going to need a lot of it though, think a few gallons of the stuff. Raising your Mg will help with the algae a bit though.

Also, blue and yellow tangs are not the greatest algae eaters of all the tangs in the sea, they're actually some of the worst. Good luck.

I need to invest in some more test kits. The Phosphate kit I have is API, and I doubt I will ever buy another one of them. The Salifert kits are much better. I also need a Mg kit, but don't have one at all yet.

I have more room in my tank for more livestock, and have considered another tang, but would want something that would eat some of this stuff and get along with my other fish. I have a yellow, blue hippo, clowns, damsels, and a coris wrasse. Any suggestions?