GFCI outlet or GFCI adaptor/power strip

[thatmanMIKEson]

So opening up the outlet it appears that it's the end. Just one black, one white and a round. 12/2 NMB. I had only found 4 dining room outlets, one foyer outlet and one exterior outlet on it. But now I know it's not in the middle. And knowing that it's the end might make it easier to relocate.

I will say though that's considered extending a circuit wich requires it to be arc fault protected but you can get a combo afci/gfci receptacle.

still I like this over having it under and behind the aquarium if you go that route

 

[apb03]

Make 100% sure you have GFCI outlets and not AFCI outlets. AFCI will nuisance trip when used with the Helio heater. I can verify this first-hand.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I will say though that's considered extending a circuit wich requires it to be arc fault protected but you can get a combo afci/gfci receptacle.

still I like this over having it under and behind the aquarium if you go that route

I know the breaker is a AFCI. The outlet to install is GFCI. does that make a difference?

 

[apb03]

I know the breaker is a AFCI. The outlet to install is GFCI. does that make a difference?

I'm not an electrician but if your circuit is AFCI it would make your outlet moot IMO. You're going to need to remove that AFCI breaker and put in a GFCI one or regular since you have a GFCI outlet already.

When I had my dedicated circuit installed, I had an AFCI outlet and my Helios tripped the AFCI once every few hours. GFCI was fine.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I'm not an electrician but if your circuit is AFCI it would make your outlet moot IMO. You're going to need to remove that AFCI breaker and put in a GFCI one or regular since you have a GFCI outlet already.

When I had my dedicated circuit installed, I had an AFCI outlet and my Helios tripped the AFCI once every few hours. GFCI was fine.

The circled breaker is AFCI right since it has a test button? That’s so if you hit a line hanging a picture etc…

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I know the breaker is a AFCI. The outlet to install is GFCI. does that make a difference?

that's a good question, It shouldn't make it trip any more than just having a regular receptacle on the afci breaker, and which one is more likely to trip first i guess depends on the fault it experiencing or the devices being used ( try to stay away from cheaper non ul listed devices)..but that's only afci to be up to modern code i assume its a newer home, and that you have multiple in your panel for all living quarters... I can't tell you that I would swap out the afci breaker for a regular breaker and just use the gfci receptacle if you really want one and if you ever sell your house put the afci breaker back in afci breakers can be tricky on their own, if you place your vacuum in the on position or a 2 wire motor in the on position then plug it in it will usually trip the afci breaker, you may have experienced something similar.

they make combination afci/gfci breakers that you can also use but I can't say if this will eliminate nuisance trips occasionally. (usually the majority of nuisance trips are caused by faulty equipment, that doesn't mean its hazardous to you or risk of shock, it could be internal insulation break down, or poor insulation with induction)

you do have options, especially if you move that receptacle where it's easily accessible.

*you can start with leaving the breaker and adding the gfci and see how it goes.

*you can swap out the breaker for a gfci/afci combination (since it's already afci its a safe bet this will work, sometimes the neutrals are shared with other circuits in the house which will cause the afci to trip or neutrals and grounds are touchingin receptacles or switches which will also cause them to trip)

* there's two other options but not professionally advised although I would do it myself

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

The circled breaker is AFCI right since it has a test button? That’s so if you hit a line hanging a picture etc…

yes white is afci and the purple one is gfci for square d

those are square d homeline

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

that's a good question, It shouldn't make it trip any more than just having a regular receptacle on the afci breaker, and which one is more likely to trip first i guess depends on the fault it experiencing or the devices being used ( try to stay away from cheaper non ul listed devices)..but that's only afci to be up to modern code i assume its a newer home, and that you have multiple in your panel for all living quarters... I can't tell you that I would swap out the afci breaker for a regular breaker and just use the gfci receptacle if you really want one and if you ever sell your house put the afci breaker back in afci breakers can be tricky on their own, if you place your vacuum in the on position or a 2 wire motor in the on position then plug it in it will usually trip the afci breaker, you may have experienced something similar.

they make combination afci/gfci breakers that you can also use but I can't say if this will eliminate nuisance trips occasionally. (usually the majority of nuisance trips are caused by faulty equipment, that doesn't mean its hazardous to you or risk of shock, it could be internal insulation break down, or poor insulation with induction)

you do have options, especially if you move that receptacle where it's easily accessible.

*you can start with leaving the breaker and adding the gfci and see how it goes.

*you can swap out the breaker for a gfci/afci combination (since it's already afci its a safe bet this will work, sometimes the neutrals are shared with other circuits in the house which will cause the afci to trip or neutrals and grounds are touchingin receptacles or switches which will also cause them to trip)

* there's two other options but not professionally advised although I would do it myself

ok so, this line has an outdoor GFCI outlet on it too. it does occasionally trip when I plug the 15amp table saw into it. so then the exterior outlet in theory should be afci/gfci combo? this is the outlet. I'm assuming I need to pull it out to see what written on it. thanks

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I'm not an electrician but if your circuit is AFCI it would make your outlet moot IMO. You're going to need to remove that AFCI breaker and put in a GFCI one or regular since you have a GFCI outlet already.

When I had my dedicated circuit installed, I had an AFCI outlet and my Helios tripped the AFCI once every few hours. GFCI was fine.

so then because there's an exterior GFCI I don't need one at the fish tank even if it's a split line?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

ok so, this line has an outdoor GFCI outlet on it too. it does occasionally trip when I plug the 15amp table saw into it. so then the exterior outlet in theory should be afci/gfci combo? this is the outlet. I'm assuming I need to pull it out to see what written on it. thanks

no it doesn't need to be because you have an afci breaker, and it's only required when modifying an existing circuit like extending it, or like moving the receptacle down the wall from behind your tank.

the gfci outside is correct.

when you say it occasionally trips, what trips the breaker or the gfci test/reset buttons?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

so then because there's an exterior GFCI I don't need one at the fish tank even if it's a split line?

no the gfci outside more than likely only has wires on the "line" side so it is only protecting itself nothing else

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I really appreciate all this info guys. this isn't my area of expertise and would not have thought of AFCI and GFCI mixed etc...I'm cable of doing the work and have done it in the past but I don't like to open the breaker box to add/change breakers even if they are plug and play. Last time I ran all the wiring out to an exterior outlet then to a shed for outlets and lighting but ran it to the box and had someone else put the breaker in for me.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

no it doesn't need to be because you have an afci breaker, and it's only required when modifying an existing circuit like extending it, or like moving the receptacle down the wall from behind your tank.

the gfci outside is correct.

when you say it occasionally trips, what trips the breaker or the gfci test/reset buttons?

the actual breaker trips with the table saw. the gfci button doesn't change. so then I do not need a GFCI since the breaker is AFCI?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

just for informational purposes, fish tanks do not require GFCI protection, is it a good idea for some people, sure absolutely

if your worried about being in the panel, don't go in the panel. but if you want to expand your knowledge and try some work you could always turn off the main breaker to the panel, but there will still be voltage on the main and is still DANGEROUS, I'd say do what your comfortable with or at least educate and learn before you just start messing around with stuff ( which is obviously what your doing so thats good) there are also alot of electrical forums around too, and videos on similar projects for homeowners along with getting homeowners permits pulled and having your work inspected by the city/county for approval.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

the actual breaker trips with the table saw. the gfci button doesn't change. so then I do not need a GFCI since the breaker is AFCI?

well that could be current overload or the table saw itself..

does it trip instantly when you turn it on, or does it trip when you cut something? or is it random?

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

just for informational purposes, fish tanks do not require GFCI protection, is it a good idea for some people, sure absolutely

if your worried about being in the panel, don't go in the panel. but if you want to expand your knowledge and try some work you could always turn off the main breaker to the panel, but there will still be voltage on the main and is still DANGEROUS, I'd say do what your comfortable with or at least educate and learn before you just start messing around with stuff ( which is obviously what your doing so thats good) there are also alot of electrical forums around too, and videos on similar projects for homeowners along with getting homeowners permits pulled and having your work inspected by the city/county for approval.

well that could be current overload or the table saw itself..

does it trip instantly when you turn it on, or does it trip when you cut something? or is it random?

typically it's the first spike when turning it on. Does the same on a miter saw which I believe is 15 amps. It's interesting though, I just checked everything. The GFCI breakers are what I'd expect. Kitchen, garage, basement, bathrooms. The only GFCI outlets are the exterior, the basement sump and the PIG. So the bathroom outlets for possible splashing are breaker GFCI only. But if the electricians installed an exterior GFCI outlet off a AFCI, I would think this would could be done too. Just want to understand what I would ask an electrician to do at this point and be able to understand issues upfront.

So the recommendation would be potentially touch nothing using AFCI breaker with standard outlet or swap breaker for GFCI and add GFCI Outlet.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions and input you are providing.

 

[apb03]

I'd remove the AFCI breaker personally and replace it with either a GFCI one or a regular breaker and have GFCI at the outlet.

Also, I contacted Innovative Marine on this question and they confirmed they do not test the Helios with AFCI circuits.

After my experience, I would never run a Reef Tank with AFCI under any circumstances.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I'd remove the AFCI breaker personally and replace it with either a GFCI one or a regular breaker and have GFCI at the outlet.

Also, I contacted Innovative Marine on this question and they confirmed they do not test the Helios with AFCI circuits.

After my experience, I would never run a Reef Tank with AFCI under any circumstances.

thanks for checking with IM. I'm running a Biocube off AFCI, standard outlet but through APC UPS. But the outlet is also no as close as this new tank. Most likely I will forego the any heater unless the water temp is below 65 which would be a long power outage with the house HVAC down. This tank is cold water predator. The heat was going to be for if I change it over to warm water later. so that wouldn't be for a couple years.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

typically it's the first spike when turning it on. Does the same on a miter saw which I believe is 15 amps. It's interesting though, I just checked everything. The GFCI breakers are what I'd expect. Kitchen, garage, basement, bathrooms. The only GFCI outlets are the exterior, the basement sump and the PIG. So the bathroom outlets for possible splashing are breaker GFCI only. But if the electricians installed an exterior GFCI outlet off a AFCI, I would think this would could be done too. Just want to understand what I would ask an electrician to do at this point and be able to understand issues upfront.

So the recommendation would be potentially touch nothing using AFCI breaker with standard outlet or swap breaker for GFCI and add GFCI Outlet.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions and input you are providing.

thats probably over current, all motors upon initial start go way over listed amperage its not surprising if it goes gloves to 30a for a second or two, but it could also be the saw combined with the arc fault braker, like I said they have their own issues and it's usually seen with motors.

they used gfci breakers on the kitchen, bathrooms and garage places because that's how they ran the wire which is very common, the reason they didn't do that for the outside receptacles was because they pulled those off a nearby circuit also very common, it was a cost 1st and ease of wire pulling 2nd decision, be glad they didn't give you the minimum requirements which is much much less. lol

yes a few options, touch nothing is definitely one

"technically" you can't swap out that breaker it's supposed to be arc fault, you could put a combination breaker in with a regular receptacle.

and swaping out the breaker for a gfci breaker and installing a gfci receptacle is redundant, and not the way to go, you would need a combination breaker because that circuit requires arc fault protection especially if you move the receptacle and modify the circuit

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

thats probably over current, all motors upon initial start go way over listed amperage its not surprising if it goes gloves to 30a for a second or two, but it could also be the saw combined with the arc fault braker, like I said they have their own issues and it's usually seen with motors.

they used gfci breakers on the kitchen, bathrooms and garage places because that's how they ran the wire which is very common, the reason they didn't do that for the outside receptacles was because they pulled those off a nearby circuit also very common, it was a cost 1st and ease of wire pulling 2nd decision, be glad they didn't give you the minimum requirements which is much much less. lol

yes a few options, touch nothing is definitely one

"technically" you can't swap out that breaker it's supposed to be arc fault, you could put a combination breaker in with a regular receptacle.

and swaping out the breaker for a gfci breaker and installing a gfci receptacle is redundant, and not the way to go, you would need a combination breaker because that circuit requires arc fault protection especially if you move the receptacle and modify the circuit

I think my head is spinning. so knowing my setup... option 1, leave it alone and return this GFCI outlet. Option 2, install this GFCI outlet on the ACFI breaker like the exterior one is. I'll check in with Home Depot but at least I can explain better what I have. I know I want to run a power strip for individual outlet switches to turn off pumps rather than unplugging during water changes. that's why at first I thought just plugging the return but straight to the outlet and a GFCI power strip for the extra pumps/lights etc...