Getting back in after 15+ years! Sump Filtration Questions

[Billyjose4]

Hi Everyone.
Getting back in after a 15+ year hiatus.
Bought a 225gal (72"x24"x30") reef ready tank. 2 corner overflows.
Since the technology has changed so much, I'm overwhelmed about what all I need (or want) in my sump below the display tank.
Any and all feedback is both welcomed and appreciated.

1. Should I include a protein skimmer, a roller mat, an algae scrubber, and a refugium in my sump?
2. Should I only choose one (or two) of the above, or is there benefit in having multiple in my sump?
3. How large of a sump should I have (ideally)- and any commercially available ones you'd recommend for my setup?

I'm sure I'll have more questions b/c I've been out for so long, but appreciate all the help!

 

[shakacuz]

1. initially i wouldn't do all of these as the system will be new. once established you can pick and choose what to add, but initially i say refugium and skimmer is a good start. (this answers your #2).
3. for a 225? i would say a 40G-75G is more than enough.

also, welcome aboard the r2r board!

 

[nereefpat]

Welcome. Good questions.

Those 4 do different things. Skimmers remove organics.
Roller mats catch debris as it enters the sump, like socks that you don't have to change/clean as often.
Algae scrubbers remove nitrate & phosphate mostly.
Fuge, it depends what you mean. Refugiums are for growing things (pods and algae) where they can't be preyed upon in the display. Some people have fuges that really function as algae scrubbers with chaetomorpha.

It's really up to you what you want to employ here. I like skimmers. I've been disappointed in cheato. I haven't used the other 2.

For a sump on a 220, I'd just use a standard 75 gallon (48x18) and make my own.

 

[ReefGeezer]

IMO an internal skimmer and a large refugium area are the best use of a sump's space.

 

[Dom]

Hi Everyone.
Getting back in after a 15+ year hiatus.
Bought a 225gal (72"x24"x30") reef ready tank. 2 corner overflows.
Since the technology has changed so much, I'm overwhelmed about what all I need (or want) in my sump below the display tank.
Any and all feedback is both welcomed and appreciated.

1. Should I include a protein skimmer, a roller mat, an algae scrubber, and a refugium in my sump?
2. Should I only choose one (or two) of the above, or is there benefit in having multiple in my sump?
3. How large of a sump should I have (ideally)- and any commercially available ones you'd recommend for my setup?

I'm sure I'll have more questions b/c I've been out for so long, but appreciate all the help!

The equipment you choose will depend on your budget. Many people complain about the expense of the hobby, but, there are alternatives.

1. Water changes are a good substitute for a protein skimmer. I don't have protein skimmers on some of my tanks, but they do well because I perform faithful weekly water changes.

2. Roller mats are an unnecessary in my view. You can go to your local craft store and buy sheets of white felt that can be cut ti fit in the media tray of your sump. It does the same job.

3. Refugiums are nice. I have one in my sump and it is done up in a way that makes if fun to look at. I have some critters in there along with some chaetomorpha. If you have a sump planned, I would suggest making a refugium part of the sump.

4. I do not run algae scrubbers.

I would suggest building your own sump. Pre-built sumps can get expensive. Conversion kits are available to turn a basic, rectangular tank into a sump.

 

[Rijodan]

i like my trigger sapphire on my 180. But having done a 75g as a sump, don't unless you really need the space, I had very little room in my stand for it and even with a 36" stand little room to get over it.

I personally don't like refugiums as they haven't worked well for me and every one that I have seen is dingy and dirty unless you're constantly cleaning it. If you have the choice and cash a good scrubber will work great. Even as your system grows you shouldn't need a refuge + scrubber as they are essentially the same thing just in different form factors.

Scrubbers are denser, powered and can just add additional ones in line on your plumbing if your needs grow past you're current one. but needs cleaning weekly or daily depending on growth and size

Refugiums require more space to be effective, but other than the light an maybe a small pump to circulate to grow nothing else special. Just whatever Macro your growing and your off to the races. Less maintenance as you only need to trim/harvest monthly or weekly depending on your size and macro.


Protein skimmer isn't a must, but generally is a must. Long and short is it a fish poop collector. It will help remove nutrients before they break down to nutrients. Particularly on large tanks this can save you from doing excessive water changes to combat nitrate/phosphates. When buying this don't go overboard, its better to be undersized and over produce than be oversized and under produce. When you start your tank and the first couple fish in that much water may not produce enough concentration to run what is recommended for a 225, but as you stock up those will run better, so if you want to wait until your more stocked it wouldn't hurt and allow you time to stretch out buying pricey items. DC ones are nice for controllability but I use an old ro 2000-int and control with the valve and water level

The Roller is just low maintenance filter socks, instead of replacing them daily/every other day it just slowly moves forward, replace the roll when finished. Its nice to have, especially if you want a clean sump. Not particularly needed and if your tank is too clean can cause your skimmer to not bubble correctly just the same as a sock.

 

[Rijodan]

Water changes are a good substitute for a protein skimmer

While true, at 225 a 10% w/c a week is a bucket of salt or more a month. Even with cheaper salts this would stack quickly. It does work, it is true, but costly on large tanks. I do this with my 28 but my 110 and 180 both run skimmers mainly on cost reasons.

Pre-built sumps can get expensive

This right here. 100x. I searched far and wide and got my trigger used from for ridiculous price. But it is extremely convient to have a tank designed for exactly what you need if you have the cash or patience to find a good price.

 

[BostonReefer300]

Lots of good advice above. I'd put in my vote for a skimmer being a must-have. Not only is a good skimmer excellent at removing organics, it also aerates your water. Personally, I wouldn't bother with a roller mat unless you have extra cash hanging around. Just use felt filter socks and replace and wash as needed. I don't think you need both an algae scrubber and a fuge. I'd choose one or the other, but would lean toward a nice fuge setup. I currently use my fuge as an anemone display tank and it's gorgeous. Also, I'd hold off on an algae scrubber for a while if you go that route. Let your tank get up and running and maybe wait until you are in the middle of the ugly stage before putting one in. Otherwise, you'll strip your nutrients so fast that you'll get a dino explosion.
Dino's didn't seem to be so prevalent when I started in this hobby, but so many people (including myself) have gotten them "recently". Welcome back to the hobby by the way! It's gotten a lot more expensive and complex, but I think we bring that on ourselves instead of just concentrating on the basics like the old days!

 

[ReefGeezer]

The OP asked how big a sump should be for his 225. A 75 gallon tank would fit under the stand and could be sectioned off for a 12" Skimmer/Filter Sock area, and an 8" Return area, and still have a 28" Refugium Area. If designed to operate at 12" deep, the refugium would hold about 26 gallons. That's more than the minimum 10% recommended by the triton method. That said... The Trigger Systems Triton Sumps are awesome if you've got the wallet.

 

[Thetankdoctor]

Welcome back! You will find the coat of reefing has gone up a lot in 15 years lol...
Skimmer for sure ...
That's my vote

 

[Billyjose4]

All this feedback has been amazingly helpful so far. Really appreciate all of you replying back and giving me different aspects and advice.

 

[Rijodan]

other things to consider in the sump, need room for your heaters, pumps for any reactors you may use if you don't make a manifold off of the return, whether you go dual or single return pump, space for spare rock or biobricks, dosing spouts and other such items. Too small a sump and you may end up replacing it quickly, and too big may not have the room under stand for non-water items

 

[Billyjose4]

Man, you guys weren't joking when you mentioned how much things have changed over the years- and the prices... but I always remember this being a $$$ hobby.

After getting analysis paralysis, I think I want to steer towards the lower maintenance end, even if at a more substantial startup cost. I think I really like the Reef Synergy SK-60 and SK-72 sumps. I think I want to pay up and get the roller mat option instead of changing filter socks. 3 kids are a big part of that reason. I'm also thinking of doing an internal protein skimmer and a refugium (with chaeto), then finish with 2 DC return pumps.

Next set of questions:
1. Am I nuts? Seriously.
2. Roller mat, protein skimmer, refugium... too little or too much?
3. If I go with the above sump setup, is it wise to forgo an algae scrubber?

Again- thank you all so much. You have no idea how much I appreciate the input.

 

[dwest]

You will gets lots of different opinions. I would start with a skimmer and leave extra space (or pre-planned compartment) for a refugium down the road. Nothing else in the sump except for a small bag of carbon (GAC).

 

[ReefGeezer]

Next set of questions:
1. Am I nuts? Seriously.
2. Roller mat, protein skimmer, refugium... too little or too much?
3. If I go with the above sump setup, is it wise to forgo an algae scrubber?

1. Yes. Welcome to the asylum!
2. Yes. I use filter socks, skimmer, refugium... The roller mat just lets you do less work... I'd probably use the roller mat if I wasn't so cheap!
3. I think so. The scrubber would perform much the same function as a refugium.

 

[nereefpat]

A lot of us don't use socks or roller mats. I don't.

But, that's just an example of one of many opinions.

 

[ReefGeezer]

A lot of us don't use socks or roller mats. I don't.

But, that's just an example of one of many opinions.

I don't use them all the time. However, I like having the option.

 

[BostonReefer300]

1. Yes. Welcome to the asylum!
2. Yes. I use filter socks, skimmer, refugium... The roller mat just lets you do less work... I'd probably use the roller mat if I wasn't so cheap!
3. I think so. The scrubber would perform much the same function as a refugium.

I agree with the old geezer. For the refugium, might as well get a sump that already has that compartment. Doesn't mean you need to utilize it right away (and probably shouldn't until the tank matures a bit)---and you can always use it as a reactor chamber instead. I love new tank set ups! Post a build thread!

 

[PatW]

I like getting the particulates out of the water. So I like filter socks. The downside of filter socks is for them to be all that useful, you really should change them out twice a week but you can get by on once a week.

Protein skimmers are good for getting rid of macromolecules often before they release nitrates and phosphates. The nice thing about protein skimmers is although they cost $$, once you get them dialed in, all you have to do is empty the cup once per month or so.

Now refugiums and algae scrubbers use algae to remove phosphates and nitrates. I have not fooled with a scrubber. But I do have chaeto in my refugium. Chaeto keeps my phosphates and nitrates down. Now with a smaller tank like say a 40 gallon, you can keep nutrients down with just big water changes. That method is harder with a larger tank like the one you are getting. If you go with chaeto, you need a bright light, replace the micro elements that chaeto consumes (chaetogro works for me) and have a fair bit of flow through the refugium (running pretty high flow through the sump works.

Also, it really helps to get an RODI system. That way you have nice pure water anytime you need it. You do not have to go and buy some and tote it back. And you can make your own saltwater with whatever salt mix you want to use. And you control the whole process. You do not have to trust someone else to have decent quality control. An RODI system will more than pay for itself and that is not even counting the time and effort spent in hauling water.

 

[Dom]

While true, at 225 a 10% w/c a week is a bucket of salt or more a month. Even with cheaper salts this would stack quickly. It does work, it is true, but costly on large tanks. I do this with my 28 but my 110 and 180 both run skimmers mainly on cost reasons.

This right here. 100x. I searched far and wide and got my trigger used from for ridiculous price. But it is extremely convient to have a tank designed for exactly what you need if you have the cash or patience to find a good price.

Fair point; on a large tank, 10% water changes will get expensive