Frustrated, Ready to Shut Down Tank

[bBurn18]

Truthfully this was the thread I used to get good info.
Some of the treatments are quick and easy, some require additional equipment (UV filter) but imo this is the first thing you should get taken care of on your journey to a functional system.

I've researched it extensively and have tried everything under the sun. I have successfully rid the system of multiple types of dinos. When I was answering your first question about if I had dinos or not, the answer was not super simple because its possible I dont but this last area of the aquarium that is showing some signs of possible dinos have been inconclusive. the thread I shared has videos and pictures but even experts like Taricha werent able to tell.

 

[bBurn18]

Hey man looks like your doing way to many changes with a good looking tank.

Stop chasing the numbers and just increase the water changes frequency.
Copods do great work on dinos.

Try this do at least weekly water changes dont touch anything but add copepods. Test alk and perimeters make sure there stable adjust dose as needed.

Keep hands out and dont dose a chemical like cemiclean or anything. Wait 2 to 3 weeks buy an easier frag or 2 of sps. Repeat step minus copepods for next 3 months bam the sps process will be there.

Watch this helpful video hes really good at advice.

Thanks for the response. I want to clarify I'm not interested in keeping SPS right now. I just want to get back to having a healthy stable system.

What in the post tells you I've been doing too many things? What I've done in the last year is raise nutrients, add a skimmer, co2 scrubber, pause adding livestock and try to get rid of dinos. That doesnt really seem like too much to me.

Also where does it look like I'm chasing numbers? I'm happy with low 7 dkh since it's stable. I will take stable over perfect any day of the week. I have PO4 and NO3 that's very high. The ph was very low at 7.4 and I read that's dangerous for reef inhabitants. Is raising it to safe levels what you meant by chasing numbers?

 

[Northern Flicker]

My honest opinion would be:

1. Remove sandbed
2. Reduce lighting intensity
3. Switch to easy "weedy" corals - softies, fast growing LPS like leptastrea.
4. Make the tank as easy to maintain as possible.

Basically, remove all the work aspects and run a lower maintenance tank. See how you enjoy it. See if it starts to stabilize for you. Seeing these animals die (and also knowing how pricey they are!) is such a demoralizing experience. Might be fun to get away from the Acros and Euphyllia and set yourself up with something very hands off for a while.

 

[KrisReef]

Thanks for the response. I want to clarify I'm not interested in keeping SPS right now. I just want to get back to having a healthy stable system.

What in the post tells you I've been doing too many things? What I've done in the last year is raise nutrients, add a skimmer, co2 scrubber, pause adding livestock and try to get rid of dinos. That doesnt really seem like too much to me.

Also where does it look like I'm chasing numbers? I'm happy with low 7 dkh since it's stable. I will take stable over perfect any day of the week. I have PO4 and NO3 that's very high. The ph was very low at 7.4 and I read that's dangerous for reef inhabitants. Is raising it to safe levels what you meant by chasing numbers?

You mentioned that you adjusted the LED output, today.

Dry rock start? If yes, then find a clean piece of live rock (buddy, LFS, Eric Cohen) and put that in this tank to increase biodiversity. The tank already looks pretty nice but keeping hands out and doing one change/month will help you isolate any issues. Good luck, don't quit, these things improve with time.

 

[VintageReefer]

Your tank looks good

Alk might have been too low for the sps frag compared to the tank it was raised in. Sps like stability and if it came from dkh 10 and went in 7.7, it could have stressed it and cause the die off. I keep alk at 8.5 and find it’s close enough to most vendors tanks to avoid stress issues when adapting to my tank from their rank

My phosphates are .38 so I don’t think yours are excessive. Nitrates are high though. I keep mine 5-10. Currently 6.5

Goniopora are difficult and sensitive. A lot don’t have success.

The hammer issue could be from flow, many of them need very low flow. Some adapt to higher.

You have a number of losses that all I’m sure are explainable but I would work on keeping things stable, lowering nitrates, and holding off on buying more stuff until you are sure everybody present is doing well. The tank looks good to me. Nice coralline. Good gear. The present coral looks good in the pics. I wouldn’t really make any changes except lowering nitrates and increasing alk over the course of a few weeks

 

[Oldreefer44]

Agree with others. Overall it looks good. That size frogspawn colony means you are doing something right. If it was a dry rock start then a bit of live rock should help. Just be carefull of trying multiple solutions at once. Simple is better. Regular water changes are always a good idea.

 

[dpfriedman]

Hi everyone,

I've been at it almost two years. The first year was pretty solid, then I moved to a new place and the tank has just never been right. Feels like once I solve one problem a new one appears. It was cyano, then dinos, then ph issues (I think). But all the while it feels like something else is going on that I cant quite figure out.

I'm close to giving up.

I really love this hobby but it's becoming a constant source of frustration and negativity as opposed to fun and joy. Also I feel bad I'm not providing an optimal environment for the livestock that are in my care.

So in one last attempt to try to get back on track, I'm asking for your help. Please help me figure this out!

Equipment:
50 gallon with hang on back refugium
radion gen 6 xr30 light
ATO
chemipure blue
hang on back skimmer (Added recently)
hydros controller with ph probe
Make my own rodi with 5 stage system at 0 TDS, stored in brute trashcan in basement

Quick recap on timeline:
- Started up in January 2023. Took it slow with live stock additions.
- Sept 2023 I got cynanobacteria from bottoming of nutrients
- I moved in October 2023
- Nov 2023 I did a treatment of chemiclean and was left with a dino party (ostreopsis, LCA, coolia) started dosing PO4 and NO3 from brightwell
- January 2024 was stable with 0.15 PO4 and 15 NO3, continuing to dose nutrients and microbacter7 and micro bacter clean multiple times a week.
- February 2024 added a small uv sterilizer
- March 2024, LCA still present in sandbed so I added rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater to increase biodiversity
- April 2024, ICP test results show everything pretty good. iodine and iron was a little low. PO4 and NO3 were high due to strategy to outcompete dinos.
- April 2024, added an acro frag to see how it would do. Started RTN within 5 days, and I removed from the system.
- May 2024, no visible signs of dinos, sandbed was looking good, but something was still off. Posted about red planaria (very tiny ones) and if they could release toxins, got no response
- May 2024, I felt in spite of the feeling of something being off, it seemed like I had conquered dinos and the corals were looking pretty good. Was sort of celebrating.
- May 2024, Some very healthy utter chaos zoas that had been spreading quickly started to invert their heads (turn into umbrella shapes) and looked weird at night like they couldnt close properly. Started noticing other zoas were melting (primarily the membranes connecting the polyps)
- May 2024, ICP test results show similar to before - iodine and iron alittle low. PO4 and NO3 high.
- May 2024, at the end of the month I had a hammer head detach. This was the first of 5 heads to detach from May to July.
- June 2024, added a skimmer to the system.
- June 2024, noticed that I may have been overlooking an area on the rocks that might still have dinos
- July 2024, I realize that my ph probe on my hydros controller was not calibrated correctly. It was showing 8.0 as nightly low to 8.35 at high during peak hours. Recalibrated and was showing 7.7 as the high during the day, as low as 7.4 at night.
- July 2024, Bought a CO2 scrubber, now getting 8.1 as the high during the day and 7.8 at low.
- Aug 2024, a RBTA that had been doing pretty poorly started to color up and extend like when I first got it a few months ago. (Pretty much stopped adding to system in February)
- Aug 2024 (last week), Sent new ICP samples, waiting for results
- Aug 2024 (last week), a previously very healthy acan had a small head detach. First time this coral had shown any stress during these events.

--

I had felt like things were going in the right direction since the ph adjustment. Then when the acan detached a head, I kind of viewed it as the last straw and am now close to giving up.

Overall I lost pretty much all sps and few others (few acros, cyphastrea, montis, goniopora, pavona, rhodactis, zoas)

But I have not had any other livestock deaths to fish (6 fish in total) or inverts other than four snails have perished over the last year. My sexy shrimp, pistol, hermits, and porcelain crab are all fine and molting like normal.

Today's readings:
.3 PO4
25 NO3
1.025 salinity
420 calcium
7.2 dkh
ph 7.8 - 8.1

--

So here we are. What am I missing or doing wrong? Please ask any follow up questions, I will respond to all of them.

I feel like this cant be explained by just dinos. Feels like the ph issue has to be taken into account. But could there be some other issue at hand?

Here's to one last shot and turning it around.

Remove the Chemipure blue and let your system balance out with the filtration. The Gfo can cause havoc.

If I use CPB, I will use a 5gal nano packet in one of my 40 gal just to slowly help with PO4’s. If you drop them too fast with the recommended amount it will crash your system.

I also dose All For Reef so I can give the tank everything it needs in one dose… including trace elements.
I shoot for the following…
Alk 8.5
Ca 440
Mg 1350
NO3 20 or lower
PO4 .50 or lower

 

[VintageReefer]

Remove the Chemipure blue and let your system balance out with the filtration. The Gfo can cause havoc.

If I use CPB, I will use a 5gal nano packet in one of my 40 gal just to slowly help with PO4’s. If you drop them too fast with the recommended amount it will crash your system.

I also dose All For Reef so I can give the tank everything it needs in one dose… including trace elements.
I shoot for the following…
Alk 8.5
Ca 440
Mg 1350
NO3 20 or lower
PO4 .50 or lower

Not to nitpick but chemipure blue does not contain gfo. It’s carbon + resin

Chemipure elite is the one with gfo

 

[Pod_01]

Just a suggestion, I would try to ensure that the PO4 is not moving around too much. Value of 0.3 for PO4 is not detrimental and I would let it do its thing and monitor it.
From my personal experience sinking PO4 is detrimental especially if it drops fast. Also if it is below 0.1 and dropping my corals let me know.

I would use GAC instead of chemi-pure. I use 2 tablespoons of GAC in a bag on 60gal system and change it every 4 weeks. I also use skimmer and that is all for my filtration on my system.

I am not a fan of refugium, they tend to consume the same elements/ nutrients your corals need. Reefers do make it work, I never had luck.
I also dose trace elements TM K and A elements. Not sure what you dose but something to consider.

How many fish do you have? Fish do produce the right food for corals but if there are not enough some type of coral supplement may be required.

My PO4 moves between 0.1-0.3. I only get exited if it goes below the 0.1.
Corals do love PO4.

Good luck,

 

[xtianGEO]

Photo of two minutes ago. I addressed PAR in response above. Alk ya is alittle low but stability I read is more important and its consistently at low 7s. Is that incorrect?

I have two mp10s on reef crest mode at 70% pretty much all time.

You seem to have vermetids. Look at the coral picture and notice the spikes coming out of rocks and coral. They are going crazy with your nutrient levels.

 

[xtianGEO]

Look at the photo! Tell me if the spikes aren’t vermetids

 

[xtianGEO]

I don’t see any dinos just a bunch of vermetids

 

[VintageReefer]

Phosphates .38

no skimmer, no water changes, no filter floss or mechanical filtration. Just an algae scrubber, live rock, chemipure elite, and cryptic zone in sump with live rock, sand, and sponge

 

[xtianGEO]

If others here agree that you are dealing with this pest, you will have to starve them out and maybe consider carnivorous snails like BB. If you are dealing with low PH and not only suppressed it may be due to their toxic web and bacterial metabolism occurring from the bacteria added to combat Dino’s. As for chemiclean, I don’t really use it. I don’t deal much if at all with Cyano or Dino’s and the very few times that I did, it was controlled through a blackout phase of about a week.

 

[xtianGEO]

Phosphates .38

no skimmer, no water changes, no filter floss or mechanical filtration. Just an algae scrubber, live rock, chemipure elite, and cryptic zone in sump with live rock, sand, and sponge

lol! Your torches must be loving that dirty water

 

[VintageReefer]

lol! Your torches must be loving that dirty water

I ran low nutrient for about 13 months (nitrate 0-2, phosphate .02-.04) and had good results, especially from the torches and hammers. In that year I grew
- banana grail from 1 head to 5.5 heads
- mint hammer from 2 head to 24 heads
- knicks torch from 1 head to 4 head

I increased nutrient levels naturally by adding more fish and with that more feeding and waste. I haven’t really noticed any changes except my gonis do look better. Working on lowering phosphates a little more to get to .1-.2

 

[xtianGEO]

I ran low nutrient for about 13 months (nitrate 0-2, phosphate .02-.04) and had good results, especially from the torches and hammers. In that year I grew
- banana grail from 1 head to 5.5 heads
- mint hammer from 2 head to 24 heads
- knicks torch from 1 head to 4 head

I increased nutrient levels naturally by adding more fish and with that more feeding and waste. I haven’t really noticed any changes except my gonis do look better. Working on lowering phosphates a little more to get to .1-.2

Since you’re on, can you look at homies photo and tell me the spikes aren’t vermetid

 

[VintageReefer]

I only see one pic of the whole tank and it’s difficult to see if there are vermetid or not. But I am all too familiar with them…I had an outbreak

They are all dead now thanks to bumblebee snails

 

[Outlaw Corals]

No its scrubbing the inside air. Currently I'm getting 7.8 to 8.1 which I know is alittle low but at least its within the acceptable parameters. I will look to improve in the future, potentially by your recommendation of getting outside air.

I’m not to sure your Ph is that much of an issue causing you any problems with your livestock, the range of Ph in natural ocean is between 7.4 to 8.5, about 2 year’s ago my Ph was high 7.8 low 7.6 and everything in my tank was doing great but i felt like that was a problem and i needed to get it higher and started chasing numbers and added the co2 scrubber and a algae scrubber and my Ph high went to 8.6 and low 8.0 and nothing changed, my corals still looked just as good and didn’t help speed up any growth, my tank is pretty stable, i have my dosing pumps dialed it so I’m not getting any swings or anything but i still lose my share of things from time to time but we have to remember these are wild corals and are not easy to keep so what i did was stop adding wild corals and started getting aquacultured corals and have much better success with those, just hang in there I’ve been reefing for 32 year’s now and it’s always something, stability is the most important thing