Frustrated, Ready to Shut Down Tank

[bBurn18]

Hi everyone,

I've been at it almost two years. The first year was pretty solid, then I moved to a new place and the tank has just never been right. Feels like once I solve one problem a new one appears. It was cyano, then dinos, then ph issues (I think). But all the while it feels like something else is going on that I cant quite figure out.

I'm close to giving up.

I really love this hobby but it's becoming a constant source of frustration and negativity as opposed to fun and joy. Also I feel bad I'm not providing an optimal environment for the livestock that are in my care.

So in one last attempt to try to get back on track, I'm asking for your help. Please help me figure this out!

Equipment:
50 gallon with hang on back refugium
radion gen 6 xr30 light
ATO
chemipure blue
hang on back skimmer (Added recently)
hydros controller with ph probe
Make my own rodi with 5 stage system at 0 TDS, stored in brute trashcan in basement

Quick recap on timeline:
- Started up in January 2023. Took it slow with live stock additions.
- Sept 2023 I got cynanobacteria from bottoming of nutrients
- I moved in October 2023
- Nov 2023 I did a treatment of chemiclean and was left with a dino party (ostreopsis, LCA, coolia) started dosing PO4 and NO3 from brightwell
- January 2024 was stable with 0.15 PO4 and 15 NO3, continuing to dose nutrients and microbacter7 and micro bacter clean multiple times a week.
- February 2024 added a small uv sterilizer
- March 2024, LCA still present in sandbed so I added rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater to increase biodiversity
- April 2024, ICP test results show everything pretty good. iodine and iron was a little low. PO4 and NO3 were high due to strategy to outcompete dinos.
- April 2024, added an acro frag to see how it would do. Started RTN within 5 days, and I removed from the system.
- May 2024, no visible signs of dinos, sandbed was looking good, but something was still off. Posted about red planaria (very tiny ones) and if they could release toxins, got no response
- May 2024, I felt in spite of the feeling of something being off, it seemed like I had conquered dinos and the corals were looking pretty good. Was sort of celebrating.
- May 2024, Some very healthy utter chaos zoas that had been spreading quickly started to invert their heads (turn into umbrella shapes) and looked weird at night like they couldnt close properly. Started noticing other zoas were melting (primarily the membranes connecting the polyps)
- May 2024, ICP test results show similar to before - iodine and iron alittle low. PO4 and NO3 high.
- May 2024, at the end of the month I had a hammer head detach. This was the first of 5 heads to detach from May to July.
- June 2024, added a skimmer to the system.
- June 2024, noticed that I may have been overlooking an area on the rocks that might still have dinos
- July 2024, I realize that my ph probe on my hydros controller was not calibrated correctly. It was showing 8.0 as nightly low to 8.35 at high during peak hours. Recalibrated and was showing 7.7 as the high during the day, as low as 7.4 at night.
- July 2024, Bought a CO2 scrubber, now getting 8.1 as the high during the day and 7.8 at low.
- Aug 2024, a RBTA that had been doing pretty poorly started to color up and extend like when I first got it a few months ago. (Pretty much stopped adding to system in February)
- Aug 2024 (last week), Sent new ICP samples, waiting for results
- Aug 2024 (last week), a previously very healthy acan had a small head detach. First time this coral had shown any stress during these events.

--

I had felt like things were going in the right direction since the ph adjustment. Then when the acan detached a head, I kind of viewed it as the last straw and am now close to giving up.

Overall I lost pretty much all sps and few others (few acros, cyphastrea, montis, goniopora, pavona, rhodactis, zoas)

But I have not had any other livestock deaths to fish (6 fish in total) or inverts other than four snails have perished over the last year. My sexy shrimp, pistol, hermits, and porcelain crab are all fine and molting like normal.

Today's readings:
.3 PO4
25 NO3
1.025 salinity
420 calcium
7.2 dkh
ph 7.8 - 8.1

--

So here we are. What am I missing or doing wrong? Please ask any follow up questions, I will respond to all of them.

I feel like this cant be explained by just dinos. Feels like the ph issue has to be taken into account. But could there be some other issue at hand?

Here's to one last shot and turning it around.

 

[College_Reefer]

Does your CO2 scrubber have a line run to outside air or is it scrubbing the inside air? I was seeing the exact same numbers you were until I added a line to the outside (just cracked a window and shoved the hose outside) and that was able to get me from 8.1 high and 7.8 low to 8.2x high and 8.0 low. That could definitely help. Also, running chemipure while also dosing nitrates and phosphates could also cause things to go out of wack. When I started my 100 gallon, I ran chemipure for like two days (after running the tank for three weeks prior) and as soon as I added it, the next morning I woke up to dinos. I removed it and they were gone the next day. Also is your temp fluctuating a lot?

 

[shakacuz]

@brandon429

 

[PharmrJohn]

Have you taken PAR readings in your tank?

 

[littlefoxx]

Hi everyone,

I've been at it almost two years. The first year was pretty solid, then I moved to a new place and the tank has just never been right. Feels like once I solve one problem a new one appears. It was cyano, then dinos, then ph issues (I think). But all the while it feels like something else is going on that I cant quite figure out.

I'm close to giving up.

I really love this hobby but it's becoming a constant source of frustration and negativity as opposed to fun and joy. Also I feel bad I'm not providing an optimal environment for the livestock that are in my care.

So in one last attempt to try to get back on track, I'm asking for your help. Please help me figure this out!

Equipment:
50 gallon with hang on back refugium
radion gen 6 xr30 light
ATO
chemipure blue
hang on back skimmer (Added recently)
hydros controller with ph probe
Make my own rodi with 5 stage system at 0 TDS, stored in brute trashcan in basement

Quick recap on timeline:
- Started up in January 2023. Took it slow with live stock additions.
- Sept 2023 I got cynanobacteria from bottoming of nutrients
- I moved in October 2023
- Nov 2023 I did a treatment of chemiclean and was left with a dino party (ostreopsis, LCA, coolia) started dosing PO4 and NO3 from brightwell
- January 2024 was stable with 0.15 PO4 and 15 NO3, continuing to dose nutrients and microbacter7 and micro bacter clean multiple times a week.
- February 2024 added a small uv sterilizer
- March 2024, LCA still present in sandbed so I added rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater to increase biodiversity
- April 2024, ICP test results show everything pretty good. iodine and iron was a little low. PO4 and NO3 were high due to strategy to outcompete dinos.
- April 2024, added an acro frag to see how it would do. Started RTN within 5 days, and I removed from the system.
- May 2024, no visible signs of dinos, sandbed was looking good, but something was still off. Posted about red planaria (very tiny ones) and if they could release toxins, got no response
- May 2024, I felt in spite of the feeling of something being off, it seemed like I had conquered dinos and the corals were looking pretty good. Was sort of celebrating.
- May 2024, Some very healthy utter chaos zoas that had been spreading quickly started to invert their heads (turn into umbrella shapes) and looked weird at night like they couldnt close properly. Started noticing other zoas were melting (primarily the membranes connecting the polyps)
- May 2024, ICP test results show similar to before - iodine and iron alittle low. PO4 and NO3 high.
- May 2024, at the end of the month I had a hammer head detach. This was the first of 5 heads to detach from May to July.
- June 2024, added a skimmer to the system.
- June 2024, noticed that I may have been overlooking an area on the rocks that might still have dinos
- July 2024, I realize that my ph probe on my hydros controller was not calibrated correctly. It was showing 8.0 as nightly low to 8.35 at high during peak hours. Recalibrated and was showing 7.7 as the high during the day, as low as 7.4 at night.
- July 2024, Bought a CO2 scrubber, now getting 8.1 as the high during the day and 7.8 at low.
- Aug 2024, a RBTA that had been doing pretty poorly started to color up and extend like when I first got it a few months ago. (Pretty much stopped adding to system in February)
- Aug 2024 (last week), Sent new ICP samples, waiting for results
- Aug 2024 (last week), a previously very healthy acan had a small head detach. First time this coral had shown any stress during these events.

--

I had felt like things were going in the right direction since the ph adjustment. Then when the acan detached a head, I kind of viewed it as the last straw and am now close to giving up.

Overall I lost pretty much all sps and few others (few acros, cyphastrea, montis, goniopora, pavona, rhodactis, zoas)

But I have not had any other livestock deaths to fish (6 fish in total) or inverts other than four snails have perished over the last year. My sexy shrimp, pistol, hermits, and porcelain crab are all fine and molting like normal.

Today's readings:
.3 PO4
25 NO3
1.025 salinity
420 calcium
7.2 dkh
ph 7.8 - 8.1

--

So here we are. What am I missing or doing wrong? Please ask any follow up questions, I will respond to all of them.

I feel like this cant be explained by just dinos. Feels like the ph issue has to be taken into account. But could there be some other issue at hand?

Here's to one last shot and turning it around.

Whats the ph of your RO? My tap water tuns low on pH. Figured that out cause my pH was always low in my tank after using my RO to make my salt water for a water change. I have to add sea chem buffer after water changes to help being the pH up. I dont know, chemistry really isnt my thing but just a thought since you mentioned low pH

 

[landlubber]

Does your tank have dinos or not? which kind?
IMO in this circumstance you're going to have to handle the issues before you can start collecting victories.

 

[tharbin]

This hobby can be as frustrating as it is rewarding. Overall it seems your tank is pretty healthy. I would switch from ChemiPure Blue to either plain ChemiPure or GAC as the resins in the Blue are being wasted trying to remove Phosphate that you were adding. I see your Phosphate is currently .3 which is kind of high but it seems you are also still fighting dinos. I would try to get the Phosphates down below .1 once you are dino-free and then you could switch back to the Blue.

I would maybe try to raise your S.G. from 1.025 to 1.026 and your dKH from 7.7 to 8.0 or so which should help the pH a little. It can be very hard to get good pH readings in many modern homes but a line run outside may help, just be careful about things like insecticides and other potential pollutants in the outside air.

The suggestion on checking your PAR is also a good one. Bailout is sometimes caused when a coral gets way too much or way to little light and it is trying to survive.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Can we see a tank pic please? Need a visual.

Agree par values will help too, parameters seem almost spot on (alk is low) , lighting and flow are just as important as parameters, if not more.

 

[graihg]

Hi everyone,

I've been at it almost two years. The first year was pretty solid, then I moved to a new place and the tank has just never been right. Feels like once I solve one problem a new one appears. It was cyano, then dinos, then ph issues (I think). But all the while it feels like something else is going on that I cant quite figure out.

I'm close to giving up.

I really love this hobby but it's becoming a constant source of frustration and negativity as opposed to fun and joy. Also I feel bad I'm not providing an optimal environment for the livestock that are in my care.

So in one last attempt to try to get back on track, I'm asking for your help. Please help me figure this out!

Equipment:
50 gallon with hang on back refugium
radion gen 6 xr30 light
ATO
chemipure blue
hang on back skimmer (Added recently)
hydros controller with ph probe
Make my own rodi with 5 stage system at 0 TDS, stored in brute trashcan in basement

Quick recap on timeline:
- Started up in January 2023. Took it slow with live stock additions.
- Sept 2023 I got cynanobacteria from bottoming of nutrients
- I moved in October 2023
- Nov 2023 I did a treatment of chemiclean and was left with a dino party (ostreopsis, LCA, coolia) started dosing PO4 and NO3 from brightwell
- January 2024 was stable with 0.15 PO4 and 15 NO3, continuing to dose nutrients and microbacter7 and micro bacter clean multiple times a week.
- February 2024 added a small uv sterilizer
- March 2024, LCA still present in sandbed so I added rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater to increase biodiversity
- April 2024, ICP test results show everything pretty good. iodine and iron was a little low. PO4 and NO3 were high due to strategy to outcompete dinos.
- April 2024, added an acro frag to see how it would do. Started RTN within 5 days, and I removed from the system.
- May 2024, no visible signs of dinos, sandbed was looking good, but something was still off. Posted about red planaria (very tiny ones) and if they could release toxins, got no response
- May 2024, I felt in spite of the feeling of something being off, it seemed like I had conquered dinos and the corals were looking pretty good. Was sort of celebrating.
- May 2024, Some very healthy utter chaos zoas that had been spreading quickly started to invert their heads (turn into umbrella shapes) and looked weird at night like they couldnt close properly. Started noticing other zoas were melting (primarily the membranes connecting the polyps)
- May 2024, ICP test results show similar to before - iodine and iron alittle low. PO4 and NO3 high.
- May 2024, at the end of the month I had a hammer head detach. This was the first of 5 heads to detach from May to July.
- June 2024, added a skimmer to the system.
- June 2024, noticed that I may have been overlooking an area on the rocks that might still have dinos
- July 2024, I realize that my ph probe on my hydros controller was not calibrated correctly. It was showing 8.0 as nightly low to 8.35 at high during peak hours. Recalibrated and was showing 7.7 as the high during the day, as low as 7.4 at night.
- July 2024, Bought a CO2 scrubber, now getting 8.1 as the high during the day and 7.8 at low.
- Aug 2024, a RBTA that had been doing pretty poorly started to color up and extend like when I first got it a few months ago. (Pretty much stopped adding to system in February)
- Aug 2024 (last week), Sent new ICP samples, waiting for results
- Aug 2024 (last week), a previously very healthy acan had a small head detach. First time this coral had shown any stress during these events.

--

I had felt like things were going in the right direction since the ph adjustment. Then when the acan detached a head, I kind of viewed it as the last straw and am now close to giving up.

Overall I lost pretty much all sps and few others (few acros, cyphastrea, montis, goniopora, pavona, rhodactis, zoas)

But I have not had any other livestock deaths to fish (6 fish in total) or inverts other than four snails have perished over the last year. My sexy shrimp, pistol, hermits, and porcelain crab are all fine and molting like normal.

Today's readings:
.3 PO4
25 NO3
1.025 salinity
420 calcium
7.2 dkh
ph 7.8 - 8.1

--

So here we are. What am I missing or doing wrong? Please ask any follow up questions, I will respond to all of them.

I feel like this cant be explained by just dinos. Feels like the ph issue has to be taken into account. But could there be some other issue at hand?

Here's to one last shot and turning it around.

I would start with PO4 at 0.3 - that is more than an order of magnitude higher than the recommended level. But, I am new to this, as well. Everyone stresses stability... but talking about it and having it are two different things.

 

[PharmrJohn]

I would start with PO4 at 0.3 - that is more than an order of magnitude higher than the recommended level. But, I am new to this, as well. Everyone stresses stability... but talking about it and having it are two different things.

LOL, it's really nice to see someone correctly use the term 'Order of Magnitude'!

 

[bBurn18]

Does your CO2 scrubber have a line run to outside air or is it scrubbing the inside air? I was seeing the exact same numbers you were until I added a line to the outside (just cracked a window and shoved the hose outside) and that was able to get me from 8.1 high and 7.8 low to 8.2x high and 8.0 low. That could definitely help. Also, running chemipure while also dosing nitrates and phosphates could also cause things to go out of wack. When I started my 100 gallon, I ran chemipure for like two days (after running the tank for three weeks prior) and as soon as I added it, the next morning I woke up to dinos. I removed it and they were gone the next day. Also is your temp fluctuating a lot?

No its scrubbing the inside air. Currently I'm getting 7.8 to 8.1 which I know is alittle low but at least its within the acceptable parameters. I will look to improve in the future, potentially by your recommendation of getting outside air.

I will research removing the chemipure and its effects. thank you.

Have you taken PAR readings in your tank?

Yes I have rented a really good par meter from my LFS twice and the top of the aquarium is getting 300 (no corals currently on the top) and bottom in most places is around 100.


I run my radion at 60% and its a good foot and half or so above the water line.

Whats the ph of your RO? My tap water tuns low on pH. Figured that out cause my pH was always low in my tank after using my RO to make my salt water for a water change. I have to add sea chem buffer after water changes to help being the pH up. I dont know, chemistry really isnt my thing but just a thought since you mentioned low pH

I'm not sure. I will look into this. thanks.

I would start with PO4 at 0.3 - that is more than an order of magnitude higher than the recommended level. But, I am new to this, as well. Everyone stresses stability... but talking about it and having it are two different things.

Raising nutrients is a well known strategy for battling dinos. However I agree that having this elevate level for so long may be causing inintended issues. Normally they say dinos can be beaten in a few months. I'm going on a year, so I'm definitely outside of the normal right now. Thank you

 

[bBurn18]

Can we see a tank pic please? Need a visual.

Agree par values will help too, parameters seem almost spot on (alk is low) , lighting and flow are just as important as parameters, if not more.

Photo of two minutes ago. I addressed PAR in response above. Alk ya is alittle low but stability I read is more important and its consistently at low 7s. Is that incorrect?

I have two mp10s on reef crest mode at 70% pretty much all time.

 

[RoanokeReef]

I wouldn't make any changes until you know if and what kind of Dinos you have if you still have them. Your ALK is fine at 7.7 as long as its stable and PH is also fine for now and wouldn't cause any of the issues you're having. Join Mack's Reef Dino Support group on Facebook and you'll get answers real fast with your microscope videos as raising nutrients depending on the Dinos you have may be doing nothing.

If you don't have Dinos my advice would be to get the Nutrients at the appropriate level / stable and make no changes for a couple of months to rebalance. Dinos are really tough on a system and take time to recover even after gone.

 

[Cali Reef Life]

Hey man looks like your doing way to many changes with a good looking tank.

Stop chasing the numbers and just increase the water changes frequency.
Copods do great work on dinos.

Try this do at least weekly water changes dont touch anything but add copepods. Test alk and perimeters make sure there stable adjust dose as needed.

Keep hands out and dont dose a chemical like cemiclean or anything. Wait 2 to 3 weeks buy an easier frag or 2 of sps. Repeat step minus copepods for next 3 months bam the sps process will be there.

Watch this helpful video hes really good at advice.

 

[bBurn18]

I wouldn't make any changes until you know if and what kind of Dinos you have if you still have them. Your ALK is fine at 7.7 as long as its stable and PH is also fine for now and wouldn't cause any of the issues you're having. Join Mack's Reef Dino Support group on Facebook and you'll get answers real fast with your microscope videos as raising nutrients depending on the Dinos you have may be doing nothing.

If you don't have Dinos my advice would be to get the Nutrients at the appropriate level / stable and make no changes for a couple of months to rebalance. Dinos are really tough on a system and take time to recover even after gone.

I agree that I need to determine if I'm dino free or not. Problem is I have not been able to get a definitive answer on whether or not this is cyano, some other type of algae, or coolia dinos (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-microscope-id-of-red-dusty-stuff.1057980/)

im certain I dont have LCA or any other types on sandbed anymore.

I dont have facebook. I signed up to join that group a few months ago but they dont allow members with new facebook accounts

I think I regardless of the dino issue I'm going to work to get the nutrients down to more acceptable levels around .1 and 10.

thanks for the response

 

[bBurn18]

Does your tank have dinos or not? which kind?
IMO in this circumstance you're going to have to handle the issues before you can start collecting victories.

can you help me determine it? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-microscope-id-of-red-dusty-stuff.1057980/

this is the only place in the aquarium that is showing any potential sign of dinos.

 

[rc8t6353]

I agree with @Cali Reef Life one hundred percent. You have a good looking tank. I know all too well how losing coral feels but don't go to drastic just yet. I think once phosphates are under control the tank will be ok.

 

[graihg]

LOL, it's really nice to see someone correctly use the term 'Order of Magnitude'!

uuhhhh....numbers....math...brain

 

[paragrouper]

Hey man looks like your doing way to many changes with a good looking tank.

Stop chasing the numbers and just increase the water changes frequency.
Copods do great work on dinos.

Try this do at least weekly water changes dont touch anything but add copepods. Test alk and perimeters make sure there stable adjust dose as needed.

Keep hands out and dont dose a chemical like cemiclean or anything. Wait 2 to 3 weeks buy an easier frag or 2 of sps. Repeat step minus copepods for next 3 months bam the sps process will be there.

Watch this helpful video hes really good at advice.

I like this plan and love this video.

 

[landlubber]

can you help me determine it? https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/help-with-microscope-id-of-red-dusty-stuff.1057980/

this is the only place in the aquarium that is showing any potential sign of dinos.

Truthfully this was the thread I used to get good info.
Some of the treatments are quick and easy, some require additional equipment (UV filter) but imo this is the first thing you should get taken care of on your journey to a functional system.