Fritz Salt Issues?

[AnemoneBay]

Doesn’t explain why their montis were fine before changing salt.

When you change salt, your whole tank will go off. How does no one know that?

 

[living_tribunal]

When you change salt, your whole tank will go off. How does no one know that?

People change salt all the time without it killing off their entire tank...or any corals for that matter.

 

[Bayareareefer18]

I use fritz and have zero problems in fact my monti colored up after I switched from Red Sea to fritz. It’s most likely your lighting or lack of light in that area.

Great
That's what this discussion is about is people sharing their personal experience with it

 

[Hemmdog]

They posted an ss after. Here:

Wow that’s some dangerous levels! Glad I use TM!

 

[MnFish1]

More people need to see this.

I have heard - I dont use it - so I dont know - but this company may not be completely reliable for some of these chemicals. Note the alkalinity of '0' on the chart. If one were to believe the report - thats what I would be concentrating on (of course - I dont believe the alkalinity is 0)

EDIT - I mean the ICP testing company - not Fritz

 

[living_tribunal]

Wow that’s some dangerous levels! Glad I use TM!

I’m glad I use cheap and basic reef crystals.

No one ever got fired for using reef crystals.

 

[living_tribunal]

I use fritz and have zero problems in fact my monti colored up after I switched from Red Sea to fritz. It’s most likely your lighting or lack of light in that area.

Sorry if I missed your subtle sarcasm here.

 

[MnFish1]

People change salt all the time without it killing off their entire tank...or any corals for that matter.

I disagree - people don't 'change salt all the time.... Some people do - part of the problem when I read this thread is that no one is saying - I added 5 gallons to a 100 gallon tank - or I added 25 gallons to a 100 gallon tank etc etc - its just 'I switched salt and xxxxxx'. Well that means its impossible to tell what affect 'new' salt might have - it may also explain why some people say 'I switched - and didnt see any change until the 4th one.

I dont believe the ICP test shown represents whats in the salt. FWIW - I use bright well - and though its 'more expensive' - when gotten on sale its reliable - and has worked well. Though this is a 'beginner' article - it explains some of the potential problems people are seeing here.

EDIT - Some people change salt and lots of things 'all the time' - question 1 are they doing it correctly

https://www.liveaquaria.com/article/329/?aid=329

 

[living_tribunal]

I disagree - people don't 'change salt all the time.... Some people do - part of the problem when I read this thread is that no one is saying - I added 5 gallons to a 100 gallon tank - or I added 25 gallons to a 100 gallon tank etc etc - its just 'I switched salt and xxxxxx'. Well that means its impossible to tell what affect 'new' salt might have - it may also explain why some people say 'I switched - and didnt see any change until the 4th one.

I dont believe the ICP test shown represents whats in the salt. FWIW - I use bright well - and though its 'more expensive' - when gotten on sale its reliable - and has worked well. Though this is a 'beginner' article - it explains some of the potential problems people are seeing here.

https://www.liveaquaria.com/article/329/?aid=329

So you’re saying ATI is lying or messed up the results?

I think the commonality between all of these anecdotal accounts is that fritz is safe 90%+ of the time but there seems to be some consistency issues (proven by people’s own mag tests and the icp results).

I wouldn’t say it’s so far fetched that sometimes these inconsistencies could be fatal.

At some point, Occam’s razor can become a quasi-legitimate argument. It’s why witness testimony in a court hearing is accepted.

 

[Sarlindescent]

I have not run any icp's but here goes some anecdotal evidence. I started a new box a month ago but have been slacking a bit on maintenance, mainly testing and WC every 3 weeks instead of 2, since my house flooded in July. I had some sps die, but figured it was a parameter swing or possible aggression. 3 weeks later, another water change, and I started losing a few heads of euphylia, I had a lot and some were crowded, so figured maybe that. Did a water change late last week and the next day a most of the heads were not extending. Forward to yesterday amd massive euphylia polyp bailout on both tanks, 90% and the rest looked completely deflated, but no brown jelly. New IO water was finally mixed this morning in my new frag tank. Just moved anything that wasn't dead. Within an hour almost all started coming out and looking fluffier. Will update tomorrow if any more loses or improvements.

Kenya trees, xenia, 2/3 leathers, 3/4 lobos, 2 cynarina, 1/2 meat corals(acanthophyllia?), gsp all seem unaffected.

Note: I have been using fritz for well over a year and saw fantastic growth. Only had issues with the latest batch. Barring the delays in water changes that has happened before, no new equipment, kalk mixed the same in ato to maintain levels, kalk and alk are a little lower than normal at 400 and 8.1, normally sit at 415 amd 8.4.

 

[MnFish1]

So you’re saying ATI is lying or messed up the results?

I think the commonality is that fritz is safe 90% of the time but there seems to be some consistency issues (proven by people’s own mag tests and the icp results).

I wouldn’t say it’s so far fetched that sometimes these inconsistencies could be fatal.

At some point, Occam’s razor can become a quasi-legitimate argument. It’s why witness testimony in a court hearing is accepted.

Unfortunately - in this 'trial' the witnesses are not available for 'cross examination' . BTW - if you that ATI is reliable why is the alkalinity on the report '0' reading 7.5 dKH lower than 'recommended' - with a red (I believe skull) suggesting death - yet we know the alkalinity is not '0'...

Do I think that Fritz is shipping salt with all of these abnormalities based on 1 test - no. Is it more likely that the test is faulty (salt not mixed properly, not sampled properly, etc etc) - as compared to Fritz shipping salt with these toxins (IMO) yes.

I could be wrong - I would be interested if any of the other people with these problems have sent ICP tests. Even if those results were correct - if one was changing only a small amount of water (as usually recommended) - they should not cause a problem

 

[MnFish1]

I have not run any icp's but here goes some anecdotal evidence. I started a new box a month ago but have been slacking a bit on maintenance, mainly testing and WC every 3 weeks instead of 2, since my house flooded in July. I had some sps die, but figured it was a parameter swing or possible aggression. 3 weeks later, another water change, and I started losing a few heads of euphylia, I had a lot and some were crowded, so figured maybe that. Did a water change late last week and the next day a most of the heads were not extending. Forward to yesterday amd massive euphylia polyp bailout on both tanks, 90% and the rest looked completely deflated, but no brown jelly. New IO water was finally mixed this morning in my new frag tank. Just moved anything that wasn't dead. Within an hour almost all started coming out and looking fluffier. Will update tomorrow if any more loses or improvements.

Kenya trees, xenia, 2/3 leathers, 3/4 lobos, 2 cynarina, 1/2 meat corals(acanthophyllia?), gsp all seem unaffected.

I had a similar issue - but did not switch salts - after I ignored my tank (no offense) and did a fairly large water change. As some have said - does it really make sense to even suggest its the salt - when all of the other variables have not been controlled for? Lots of people on this forum (I read it a lot) - have similar problems - yet they have not changed salt. Dont know who is right or wrong - but - to answer someone else (@living_tribunal ) question "Am I questioning ATI's ICP results" - why not? You're questioning Fritz's salt?

 

[living_tribunal]

I had a similar issue - but did not switch salts - after I ignored my tank (no offense) and did a fairly large water change. As some have said - does it really make sense to even suggest its the salt - when all of the other variables have not been controlled for? Lots of people on this forum (I read it a lot) - have similar problems - yet they have not changed salt. Dont know who is right or wrong - but - to answer someone else (@living_tribunal ) question "Am I questioning ATI's ICP results" - why not? You're questioning Fritz's salt?

But in most reports here, all other variables were accounted for and consistent. Most tested their params to ensure they were constant and obviously salinity, temp, etc. There was only one difference.

 

[MnFish1]

But in most reports here, all other variables were accounted for and consistent. Most tested their params to ensure they were constant and obviously salinity, temp, etc. There was only one difference.

In some of the accounts you're right - I'm not inclined to go back through all of the posts to calculate the percentage - but - just for a start - how many people have added the percentage of water they 'tried to change' and how quickly? (I dont think many - I could be wrong) - How many people that said - I changed my salt x months ago - and slowly xyz happened - thought about other things that might have changed over months (read the tank emergency - there are hundreds of posts in the week - with similar problems that haven't changed salt - so how do we rule out another issue, etc etc.

Not trying to disagree - and I agree that Salt (fritz) is difficult to mix, and that people might not mix and use it according to instructions - but - I do not believe that one ICP test (which shows a zero alkalinity test result - suggests anything but a 'bad test'. If you want to discuss that - fire away - otherwise I feel like I'm repeating myself

 

[Tyler Bullock]

How long, do you know of? I've only heard of their salt within the past 3-4 years? That's pretty new to me, IMO.

They were founded in the late 50's. I'm not sure when they started salt.

 

[SeaDweller]

They were founded in the late 50's. I'm not sure when they started salt.

True, I know fritz has been around for a while, but I’m almost sure the salt thing is new

 

[Sarlindescent]

I had a similar issue - but did not switch salts - after I ignored my tank (no offense) and did a fairly large water change. As some have said - does it really make sense to even suggest its the salt - when all of the other variables have not been controlled for? Lots of people on this forum (I read it a lot) - have similar problems - yet they have not changed salt. Dont know who is right or wrong - but - to answer someone else (@living_tribunal ) question "Am I questioning ATI's ICP results" - why not? You're questioning Fritz's salt?

No offense taken. Couple notes on this. The water change was the same size as always, 5 gallons split between 2 tanks. I did not switch salt, I have been using fritz for well over a year, and I suspect 1.5-2 years. The tank itself in 2-3 years old. What I did was use a new box of salt, the old one was finished. The odd part is many of the corals in the tank have been with me for years that died and quite a few new ones too. I have had a few periods like this before when for a couple water changes, I do 3 weeks instead of 2. This could have been the one time it bit me, but it seems odd especially given the growth and health of they system as a whole. Since I added kalk a year ago, while using fritz, my system has never seen this good of growth. I started fragging and had a hammer shatter from using bone cutters (won't do that again) and had a sliver with 2 polyps on it grow back to what was a week ago, a full head with 3 babys. Now, that same piece dies right after a water change? All death seemed to follow the water change. Following each water change from this new box, more death.

Like you said, we cannot control for all variable, but the coincidense of more death following each WC on a mature system, just seems odd. Even odder, is basically dead corals (euphyllia were shivled up like they purged all water from tenticles) being moved to a new system with 100% new water and new brand, IO, not accimating (sg and temp were the same, not sure on calc, alk, etc) and the corals seemingly popping back to life within an hour...? It just seems like there is some sort of contaminate. I have the lights off for now, but like I said will followup when something progresses.

 

[Reefahholic]

I just switched back to this high dollar pharmaceutical grade salt that was developed by marine scientists. Always did well for me.

It’s called Instant Ocean Regular and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. Anybody ever heard of it?

It did well for rossco too. He used to get a little growth from it:

 

[MnFish1]

No offense taken. Couple notes on this. The water change was the same size as always, 5 gallons split between 2 tanks. I did not switch salt, I have been using fritz for well over a year, and I suspect 1.5-2 years. The tank itself in 2-3 years old. What I did was use a new box of salt, the old one was finished. The odd part is many of the corals in the tank have been with me for years that died and quite a few new ones too. I have had a few periods like this before when for a couple water changes, I do 3 weeks instead of 2. This could have been the one time it bit me, but it seems odd especially given the growth and health of they system as a whole. Since I added kalk a year ago, while using fritz, my system has never seen this good of growth. I started fragging and had a hammer shatter from using bone cutters (won't do that again) and had a sliver with 2 polyps on it grow back to what was a week ago, a full head with 3 babys. Now, that same piece dies right after a water change? All death seemed to follow the water change. Following each water change from this new box, more death.

Like you said, we cannot control for all variables, but the coincidence of more death following each WC on a mature system, just seems odd. Even odder, is basically dead corals (euphyllia were shivled up like they purged all water from tenticles) being moved to a new system with 100% new water and new brand, IO, not accimating (sg and temp were the same, not sure on calc, alk, etc) and the corals seemingly popping back to life within an hour...? It just seems like there is some sort of contaminate. I have the lights off for now, but like I said will followup when something progresses.

Thanks - I guess I was asking - (in your example) 5 gallons into what volume (10, 20, 100, 1000) - (And Im really sorry to hear about your coral losses BTW),... What were the parameters pre-post. Were they that different? were you doing regular water changes i.e. every week, 2 weeks, etc. I see a partial answer in yours - so im guessing you did every 2 to 3 weeks.

I think its possibly a salt problem - just want to make that clear, depending on how it was mixed - (the one I use has a specific mixing protocol - and I've been tempted to change it I have not) - Frankly I wouldn't

 

[MnFish1]

Wow that’s some dangerous levels! Glad I use TM!

@Hemmdog the voice of reason - do you really believe that a salt manufacturer - has no quality control - that they wouldn't notice those values. Serious question. My guess (GUESS - EMPHASIZED) - is that they test for those things before shipping a batch - if not - well - I would avoid Fritz. Its one ICP test lol