Fluke/inch treatment questions

[SueAubu]

Hi y'all. I've been up all night reading about how to save the rest of my fish from flukes. (The reason that ich is included in the title is because one of the clowns has white spots, which I'll deal with after the others can breathe, if it is, in fact, a separate ich issue.)

I have a couple treatment questions:
1) I'm getting Prazipro today when the LFS opens at 2. I was also thinking about going hypo with the salinity in the DT where everyone is affected. That will mean moving my corals to a QT, if you will. (I'm out of room for even a drag shelf in my other tanks.)
QUESTION: is the infestation in the water or just the rock/sand? Can I use their tank water for the side coral tank?

2) flukes come in on anything wet... QUESTION: If the flukes came in on new corals, does dipping in iodine take care of flukes and I can (mostly- nothing is 100%) rule out my new corals as the source?

3. These fish aren't new to each other. They were all together in a rescue tank I got about 10 days ago. They are new to this tank setup, which had nothing in it until them. There were fish in that tank, before it was disassembled (3 weeks ago), but they are in another tank and show no signs of any illness. QUESTION: How long is the incubation and how do the flukes get into the fish, in the first place?

I just got corals today and my immediate question for the next hour is where to put them to acclimate, if I'm pulling the other corals out of the infested tank to go hypo.

After that my priority is keeping the rest of the poor things alive. Some rescuer I turned out to be....

 

[Sharkbait19]

If you are going to do a hypo treatment, prazi isn’t necessary. A proper hypo will control both ich and flukes.
Ich mainly exists on surfaces, but I would consider any water it was in to be contaminated. That said, it (and flukes) require a fish host to survive. If the corals are held in a fishless system for 60 days, all parasites will starve off.
Corals are vectors for disease, but the risk is small compared to a fish.

 

[SueAubu]

3 videos of how they look. (Complying with the disease forum guidelines. Tee hee)
Noone would eat today. That's a first. Blue Tang's eyes are cloudy as of today. I already lost a scooter blenny and the harlequin tusk.... Maybe a clown or two.

1.
2. The stringy poop is new!!! Yikes!!
3.

 

[Rene2br]

OK. My experience with hypo. It works but can be hard on fish long term. Regarding flukes (if you have absolutely IDed ) prozi works great most of the time.

1. As I am sure you have read, Flukes have several life stages that translate to sand/substrate, water, fish. So at some point in their life stage they can be found in all three.

2. If you purchase corals from someone that had infested fish with flukes, yes the fluke eggs can been on coral. For some species of flukes (these eggs are very hardy, well insolated, and difficult to pernitrate by chemical mean) prozi targets the adults only.

3. There is a gestation period for fluke the literature sites. I will contend that some eggs may take longer or are triggered by an external que. ( that last part might be antidotal). In any case they hatch and look for a host. Unlike Crypto trophonts (with only live 72 hrs unless they find a host), fluke swim around for a while days or weeks looking for a host animal. If fish are not overwhelmed they will live perfectly normal lives with flukes for a while. Eventually they will get overcome or get a secondary bacterial infection from the flukes (usually the case)but that could take weeks, months, or longer. Gill flukes are the worst because you won't know until it is too late for the animal.

In my opinion: best solution for flukes is to fresh water you animals and transfer them to a clean non fluke qt. This will kill the flukes on the animal. VERY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW ALL FW DIP PROTCALS.

Crypto or whatever else might be causing your spots needs to be addressed in the qt.

I really think if you want to keep corals and fish.. Fallow is the way to go but I understand most people cant do that easily. Way to long of a response.. Good Luck. Remember to learn from your personal experience to add to your success.

 

[SueAubu]

I'm not so worried about ich now. The clown that had spots yesterday doesn't, today, after the FW dip.

New question:
Can I Prazi and Ich-X at the same time? I've been through the stringy poop thing before in the FW tank... Ich-X isn't the full copper treatment, right?

 

[Rene2br]

Dude. Id say flukes are the least of your worries. You have Crypto or velvet.. with bacterial issues. This is going to kill these animals within the next couple of days. If is very advanced.

 

[SueAubu]

OK. My experience with hypo. It works but can be hard on fish long term. Regarding flukes (if you have absolutely IDed ) prozi works great most of the time.

1. As I am sure you have read, Flukes have several life stages that translate to sand/substrate, water, fish. So at some point in their life stage they can be found in all three.

2. If you purchase corals from someone that had infested fish with flukes, yes the fluke eggs can been on coral. For some species of flukes (these eggs are very hardy, well insolated, and difficult to pernitrate by chemical mean) prozi targets the adults only.

3. There is a gestation period for fluke the literature sites. I will contend that some eggs may take longer or are triggered by an external que. ( that last part might be antidotal). In any case they hatch and look for a host. Unlike Crypto trophonts (with only live 72 hrs unless they find a host), fluke swim around for a while days or weeks looking for a host animal. If fish are not overwhelmed they will live perfectly normal lives with flukes for a while. Eventually they will get overcome or get a secondary bacterial infection from the flukes (usually the case)but that could take weeks, months, or longer. Gill flukes are the worst because you won't know until it is too late for the animal.

In my opinion: best solution for flukes is to fresh water you animals and transfer them to a clean non fluke qt. This will kill the flukes on the animal. VERY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW ALL FW DIP PROTCALS.

Crypto or whatever else might be causing your spots needs to be addressed in the qt.

I really think if you want to keep corals and fish.. Fallow is the way to go but I understand most people cant do that easily. Way to long of a response.. Good Luck. Remember to learn from your personal experience to add to your success.

It was a long post. Your reply was shorter. Lol there was. Certainly enough stress with them rehoming a couple weeks ago...
I did the FW dip in the wee hours, this morning. Followed protocol to a T. The clowns were fine, but it spelled the end for the tusk. I want to dip the tang now, but he's entrenched in a cave.

Thank you.

Follow up- questions:
If I treat the whole DT, a few times, even beyond protocol, it should hit all the left stages, right?

I'm starting to agree that hypo isn't the way to go... I was just thinking all birds, two stones (Prazi and salt) Besides, I forgot about my anemones and rock flowers. Not so easy to transfer.

Man oh man, when did I forget how to keep fish?? When did the corals become the EASY part!!! (See last month's panic over BJD...)

 

[SueAubu]

Dude. Id say flukes are the least of your worries. You have Crypto or velvet.. with bacterial issues. This is going to kill these animals within the next couple of days. If is very advanced.

What? Really? Who? How? Whaaaaat? I thought velvet was gold!

Panic sets in again!!

 

[SueAubu]

One more question that I've never seen answered. What we say the tank should go fallow, does that mean removing to coral/nem animals, too?

 

[Rene2br]

These animals are covered. They are hardy but this might be too much for them.

I'

 

[Rene2br]

Sorry posted too soon

 

[Rene2br]

I wouldn't treat my DT with chemicals. Although they say some are safe, I've found that it doesn't mean safe for all inverts.

Fallow you can leave all your inverts in the DT. Just remove the fish.

 

[Rene2br]

Make sure your temp and pH is the same when you fw. Very important!

 

[Rene2br]

You will need to run both board spectrum antibiotic and parasitic agent (like copper) to treat these fish. ASAP!! You might hold off on FW dips because they are at their limit already regarding stress.

 

[Sharkbait19]

What? Really? Who? How? Whaaaaat? I thought velvet was gold!

Panic sets in again!!

Gold dust is seen in fw velvet. In marine velvet, you usually don’t even see the spots by the time the fish dies. Breathing fast is the major symptom.
Based on the videos, this looks like late stage ich, there’s so much mucus it just coats the fish.

 

[SueAubu]

I wouldn't treat my DT with chemicals. Although they say some are safe, I've found that it doesn't mean safe for all inverts.

Fallow you can leave all your inverts in the DT. Just remove the fish.

By inverts you mean the corals and CUC? I don't have a CUC since I had a tusk until yesterday.

I've had these fish for 12 days. When you say late stage, Did they get it before then or since? I have 4 other tanks and need to know what else to be worried about as I clean out this infected one? (Like moving corals with ceramic posts into another tank.... ) I'm obviously going to treat ALL the tanks on the off chance that I cross used a sponge or turkey baster

urghhhhhhhh

 

[SueAubu]

Antibiotic such as? I get confused when people use real names, nic names, short names, initials and generalization.

 

[Sharkbait19]

By inverts you mean the corals and CUC? I don't have a CUC since I had a tusk until yesterday.

I've had these fish for 12 days. When you say late stage, Did they get it before then or since? I have 4 other tanks and need to know what else to be worried about as I clean out this infected one? (Like moving corals with ceramic posts into another tank.... ) I'm obviously going to treat ALL the tanks on the off chance that I cross used a sponge or turkey baster

urghhhhhhhh

Fish can have it when you buy them, but just don’t show that they’re infected yet. A lot of factors can determine how fast it spreads, but 12 days is certainly long enough to start killing.

Antibiotic such as? I get confused when people use real names, nic names, short names, initials and generalization.

Kanaplex (kanamycin) is a good choice in many cases, as is neoplex (neomycin).

 

[MnFish1]

If you are going to do a hypo treatment, prazi isn’t necessary. A proper hypo will control both ich and flukes.
Ich mainly exists on surfaces, but I would consider any water it was in to be contaminated. That said, it (and flukes) require a fish host to survive. If the corals are held in a fishless system for 60 days, all parasites will starve off.
Corals are vectors for disease, but the risk is small compared to a fish.

You cannot,, though, treat with hypo salinity in a tank with corals, etc. I think thats already been said.

What? Really? Who? How? Whaaaaat? I thought velvet was gold!

Panic sets in again!!

I think you're asking a lot of questions - that are difficult to answer. The clown fish in your OP - looks like it's in bad shape. The tang - worse. Ich comes and goes - as part of its natural life cycle - so - the fact that spots are gone doesn't mean anything.

How about going back to basics. Split your inverts and fish into 2 different tanks. In the fish tank - treat with copper (chelated) and since there is a question about flukes - and since the illness looks somewhat severe - you can use them together. Copper(chelated) should be dosed to >2 ppm (consistently) - the prazipro with plenty of oxygen - and 2 doses 8 days apart. Normally one would do these separately - but in this case I think you're ok to do them together.

 

[SueAubu]

Thank you everyone! Headed home with new tank, now, and all the medications I could put my hands on, immediately. I know a lot of why people post on here is so they can be assured they're doing the best thing for their tank. I am no different. I can't follow all your advice to the letter, but I can try. At this point, I couldn't get coppersafe, but I could get Ich-X and Prazi. So at least they can start get treated sooner than later. I even bought a long (versus high) tank in the hopes that the tang will be well enough to need space swim again.

I've seen ich and intestinal parasites almost take out my 120 FW tank, but the only time I've seen it in SW, I got out of the hobby for years. If never heard of velvet until I started reading. I am truly thankful that so many of you on R2R are so knowledgeable and there's always someone here monitoring our panic posts!!

I wasn't even going to send the video because I was so sure of my diagnosis... Occupational hazard as a nurse. Now if this traffic would just let up so we can get home!