Fishless Cycle Advice

[iannarelli]

I've been setting up a 60gal cube for the past couple of weeks and finally got to fill it with water this Sunday and Monday. I am going through the fishless cycle using Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride and FrytzZyme Turbo Start 900 (4oz - good for up to 100gal). Last night, I dosed the ammonia exactly per the instructions on my bottle (4 drops per gallon). I couldn't find a consensus of how long to wait before testing the ammonia levels (I'm using API's kit) but curiosity got the best of my and I ran a test. It was off the charts (over 8ppm and almost blue). I'm not sure what could have caused this... I literally filled up the tank 15 gallons at a time and know that (DT + SUMP) - (SAND + ROCK) is roughly 58 gallons, which is 232 drops, or 11ml + 12 drops. I used dry rock and a one bag of Caribsea Ocean Direct and one bag of Caribsea AragAlive Special Grade (Dec 2026 expiration). I know those sand products both contain bacteria—could they have somehow caused the ammonia to spike?

I scoured the forums here and reddit. Opinions varied; some advised doing a massive water change because the cycle would stall out or nitrates would end up being super high, while others said to ride it out. Still others said to add extra bacteria. I tested about an hour later, and it was still the same dark greenish-blue color but opted to take the path of least resistance by adding the bacteria (as opposed to trying to make 30-45 gallons of new saltwater) and practice a little bit of patience by accepting my cycle might take longer than I had hoped.

This morning, I tested (approximately 10 hours later) and the results are much better, see below photo, to my eyes, it looks to me somewhere in between 2ppm and 1ppm.

So my questions are:

1. Is there a set amount of time you're supposed to wait after adding ammonium chloride before testing ammonia levels?
2. If my results from last night we're valid (sorry I don't have a photo), and nothing else in my tank impacted the ammonia level, how could Dr. Tim's instructions be so off?
3. Since my reading is much better today, should I assume (a) the Turbo Start is living up to its name; or (b) the tests last night were artificially high?
4. If the answer to 3 is "a," guessing it's fair to assume I will have high nitrates at the end of the cycle I read Randy's article on nitrates, and while I been planning to run a refugium as my tank matured, I'm not prepared to have it running on day 1! Should I plan to get that up and running sooner, or is there a better method for exporting nitrates with a brand-new tank?

Thanks!

 

[Cell]

Add ammonia, test immediately to know your current level. Test 24 hrs later to check decrease.

Turbostart is well vetted and works as advertised.

Once ammonia gets down to zero or 0.25 on API ammonia test, you can add a fish. Nitrite is not harmful to marine fish, all we care about is seeing ammonia being processed.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

This might not apply completely, but I did a fishless cycle. I did Dr. Tim's One and Only Method, and it took me about a week to be fully cycled. I did exactly what the bottle said, and it worked out perfectly for me

 

[iannarelli]

Add ammonia, test immediately to know your current level. Test 24 hrs later to check decrease.

Turbostart is well vetted and works as advertised.

Once ammonia gets down to zero or 0.25 on API ammonia test, you can add a fish. Nitrite is not harmful to marine fish, all we care about is seeing ammonia being processed.

Thanks! In that case, it's definitely being processed. I will check again tonight around 8:30PM, which is roughly the 24-hour mark.

 

[GARRIGA]

 

[iannarelli]

This might not apply completely, but I did a fishless cycle. I did Dr. Tim's One and Only Method, and it took me about a week to be fully cycled. I did exactly what the bottle said, and it worked out perfectly for me

Thanks. Yeah, I followed the bottle's directions, which was supposed to give me 2ppm, which is why I freaked out when I was testing over 8ppm. The only place of the internet I could find that said 8ppm wasn't too high was here. Both Frytz and Dr. Tim's warned about anything over 5ppm being too much. Sounds like I'm okay though!

 

[Garf]

Thanks. Yeah, I followed the bottle's directions, which was supposed to give me 2ppm, which is why I freaked out when I was testing over 8ppm. The only place of the internet I could find that said 8ppm wasn't too high was here. Both Frytz and Dr. Tim's warned about anything over 5ppm being too much. Sounds like I'm okay though!

I've read somewhere that really high salinity can give a blue colour on ammonia tests, so that's worth checking before you add anything that swims, or slithers, or crawls. There's a DIY salinity calibration link in my sig.

 

[iannarelli]

Thanks, I'm going to throw this up on the TV while I work.

 

[GARRIGA]

Thanks, I'm going to throw this up on the TV while I work.

Known of fishless since the 80s and thought I knew it all until watching this. Lower salinity, higher temps and avoiding the introduction of heterotrophs along with keeping both ammonia and nitrites below 5 ppm were eye opening. Going to watch it again myself as I have an upcoming build and my mind forgets yesterday's lunch at times

 

[iannarelli]

I've read somewhere that really high salinity can give a blue colour on ammonia tests, so that's worth checking before you add anything that swims, or slithers, or crawls. There's a DIY salinity calibration link in my sig.

Thanks, I will check the link... By high, do you mean "high for a reef tank" or just "high" as compared to tap/fresh water? I'm using a Tropic Marin Hydrometer and Randy's temperature conversion chart to measure my salinity. It was on the lower side of the acceptable range the last time I checked. As this is a new tank, I figured I could let evaporation let it creep up and then adjust my ATO sensor accordingly. I will measure again in a little bit.

 

[iannarelli]

Known of fishless since the 80s and thought I knew it all until watching this. Lower salinity, higher temps and avoiding the introduction of heterotrophs along with keeping both ammonia and nitrites below 5 ppm were eye opening. Going to watch it again myself as I have an upcoming build and my mind forgets yesterday's lunch at times

That video was both fascinating and enlightening. I wish I had watched it before I started cycling.

 

[GARRIGA]

That video was both fascinating and enlightening. I wish I had watched it before I started cycling.

Followed it pretty much to a T and had ammonia cycled within 4 days and nitrites within 9. Only variation being I stress tested the tank by increasing the amount of ammonia daily by breaking max into smaller increments to see when and how quickly my tank would process ammonium chloride then when done I added some phosphates and used NoPox to bottom out nitrates vs performing a WC. That's what I consider a complete cycle.

 

[Dan_P]

So my questions are:

1. Is there a set amount of time you're supposed to wait after adding ammonium chloride before testing ammonia levels?

With Fritz Turbo Start, ammonia reduction can be detected within 24 hours, though a week might be needed to see 0 ppm.

1. If my results from last night we're valid (sorry I don't have a photo), and nothing else in my tank impacted the ammonia level, how could Dr. Tim's instructions be so off?

You are not the first to discover that following Dr. Tim’s instructions results in a high ammonia reading. Could be a case of old instructions and new concentration of ammonia chloride solution being sold.

1. Since my reading is much better today, should I assume (a) the Turbo Start is living up to its name; or (b) the tests last night were artificially high?

Test for nitrite to confirm that ammonia is being converted to nitrite or wait until ammonia is gone in a few dats to confirm everything is OK.

1. If the answer to 3 is "a," guessing it's fair to assume I will have high nitrates at the end of the cycle I read Randy's article on nitrates, and while I been planning to run a refugium as my tank matured, I'm not prepared to have it running on day 1! Should I plan to get that up and running sooner, or is there a better method for exporting nitrates with a brand-new tank?

Thanks!

The nitrate produced from ammonia is somewhat less than 4X. If you had started with 8 ppm total ammonia, the cycled system would have around 32 ppm nitrate.

 

[iannarelli]

With Fritz Turbo Start, ammonia reduction can be detected within 24 hours, though a week might be needed to see 0 ppm.



You are not the first to discover that following Dr. Tim’s instructions results in a high ammonia reading. Could be a case of old instructions and new concentration of ammonia chloride solution being sold.



Test for nitrite to confirm that ammonia is being converted to nitrite or wait until ammonia is gone in a few dats to confirm everything is OK.



The nitrate produced from ammonia is somewhat less than 4X. If you had started with 8 ppm total ammonia, the cycled system would have around 32 ppm nitrate.

Thanks for all the info. Re: testing for nitrites, will do. I currently don't have a Nitrite kit on me (I have API ammonia specifically for cycling, and then Hanna Alkalinity DKH, Phosphate ULR, and Nitrate High Range checkers), but Jeff Bezos can get me either API's or Salifert's Nitrite kit by tomorrow afternoon, or overnight, respectively. Both have decent reviews, though the API is slightly higher rated. Do you have a recommendation?

Edit: I actually have API's freshwater Master Kit... per the Nitrite listing on Amazon, it works for both fresh and saltwater, so maybe I can use the reagent I already have?

 

[Dan_P]

Thanks for all the info. Re: testing for nitrites, will do. I currently don't have a Nitrite kit on me (I have API ammonia specifically for cycling, and then Hanna Alkalinity DKH, Phosphate ULR, and Nitrate High Range checkers), but Jeff Bezos can get me either API's or Salifert's Nitrite kit by tomorrow afternoon, or overnight, respectively. Both have decent reviews, though the API is slightly higher rated. Do you have a recommendation?

Edit: I actually have API's freshwater Master Kit... per the Nitrite listing on Amazon, it works for both fresh and saltwater, so maybe I can use the reagent I already have?

I was going to recommend the less expensive API kit because this might be the only time you want to measure nitrite.

 

[iannarelli]

Okay.... Looking at both product images on Amazon, I do think the Nitrite reagent that comes in the Freshwater Master Kit is exactly the same as the standalone product (which says it works for saltwater). I'll give it a try and if the results don't make any sense, I'll go line Jeff's pockets some more.

 

[iannarelli]

Never mind... apparently I've lost half the reagent bottles in my kit, nitrite being one of the missing ones.

 

[Cell]

I wouldn't worry about purchasing a nitrite kit at this point if you don't already have one. Just test ammonia for decrease and nitrate for any sort of increase. The nitrate test is not accurate in the presence of nitrite, but we aren't too concerned with exact levels right now, just that the cycle is moving along.

 

[iannarelli]

I wouldn't worry about purchasing a nitrite kit at this point if you don't already have one. Just test ammonia for decrease and nitrate for any sort of increase. The nitrate test is not accurate in the presence of nitrite, but we aren't too concerned with exact levels right now, just that the cycle is moving along.

Okay... the nitrite kit is already on its way, but I'll test for nitrates later today too. Not much of a change on the ammonia kit overnight (~12 hrs).

 

[iannarelli]

I wouldn't worry about purchasing a nitrite kit at this point if you don't already have one. Just test ammonia for decrease and nitrate for any sort of increase. The nitrate test is not accurate in the presence of nitrite, but we aren't too concerned with exact levels right now, just that the cycle is moving along.

Alright, so here's the latest.

Salinity: 1.0261 (34.69ppt) via TM High precision hydrometer, temp corrected per below
Temp: 79.0°F/26.1°C (ThermoPro Lighting w/ ±0.5°F/±0.3°C accuracy—it read 32°F/0°C in ice water that had been sitting for 10 minutes)

Ammonia: ~1ppm (API, might be slightly lighter green than 12 hours ago)
Nitrite: 0ppm (API, should I be worried?)
Nitrate: 0ppm (Hanna Nitrate HR)

Woof, what should I do now?