Fish Only Ich Treatment Help (Peroxide or Bleach??)

[BlueFynn_Ian]

Hi there,
First time poster, long time observer and thread reader.

Looking for some guidance to help my father with his 400 gallon Fish Only tank. He has been dealing with an Ich outbreak for a couple of months now and has until now been just using Ruby Reef Rally pro and Kick-Ich in tandem. They seemed to alleviate the symptoms for some time but the ich has been persistent and is coming back full force.

Stock List: Emperor Angel, Achilles Tang, Powder Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Humu Trigger, Picasso Trigger, Maroon Clown Pair, Red Choris Wrasse, Blue Spot Puffer, Valentini Puffer and two Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasses.

I recommended to him taking all the fish out, copper treating with Copper Power and having the tank be fallow for 72 days minimum. This process has worked for my smaller reef tanks in the past and I plan I sticking with it for my smaller tanks in the future if I need to. However, he is a very impatient person and does not want to set up the multiple hospital tanks and leave his "baby" empty for over two months. The LFS is telling him to either treat the entire tank with a hydrogen peroxide drip to kill the ich or to take all the fish out and bleach the entire system of salt water while treating the fish with copper.

My question is will the peroxide drip work and allow him to keep his fish in the system? Also, if he were to run bleach through the tank as is and not do a water change would this also work?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi there,
First time poster, long time observer and thread reader.

Looking for some guidance to help my father with his 400 gallon Fish Only tank. He has been dealing with an Ich outbreak for a couple of months now and has until now been just using Ruby Reef Rally pro and Kick-Ich in tandem. They seemed to alleviate the symptoms for some time but the ich has been persistent and is coming back full force.

Stock List: Emperor Angel, Achilles Tang, Powder Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Humu Trigger, Picasso Trigger, Maroon Clown Pair, Red Choris Wrasse, Blue Spot Puffer, Valentini Puffer and two Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasses.

I recommended to him taking all the fish out, copper treating with Copper Power and having the tank be fallow for 72 days minimum. This process has worked for my smaller reef tanks in the past and I plan I sticking with it for my smaller tanks in the future if I need to. However, he is a very impatient person and does not want to set up the multiple hospital tanks and leave his "baby" empty for over two months. The LFS is telling him to either treat the entire tank with a hydrogen peroxide drip to kill the ich or to take all the fish out and bleach the entire system of salt water while treating the fish with copper.

My question is will the peroxide drip work and allow him to keep his fish in the system? Also, if he were to run bleach through the tank as is and not do a water change would this also work?

I agree with quarantine and fallow. Best treatment would be coppersafe or Copper Power with coppersafe my choice at therapuetic level 2.25-2.5 for a FULL 30 days - must be full 30 days monitored with a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna brand, not Api
Also monitor ammonia level with a reliable test kit during treatment and would not be a bad idea to add an air stone for added oxygen during treatment
You will also need to leave display tank FishLess (Fallow) as you mentioned for at least 6-8 weeks to assure the cysts and trophants have completed their life cycle without a host and have died off

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Why not consider hyposalinity on the
main tank? That would allow the fish to remain and you wouldn’t need an extended fallow period. Copper and fallow is the best bet for smaller tanks, but to do that with larger fish can be an issue having a QT that is large enough, and then, keeping it stable.
Hydrogen peroxide is just the treatment de juer and is really experimental. Its use is extrapolated from high dose dip studies done on pacific thread fin. I would never dose it without using a low dose test strip to monitor it - the unreacted amount of peroxide changes over time and you need to adjust the dose accordingly.
Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Hi there,
First time poster, long time observer and thread reader.

Looking for some guidance to help my father with his 400 gallon Fish Only tank. He has been dealing with an Ich outbreak for a couple of months now and has until now been just using Ruby Reef Rally pro and Kick-Ich in tandem. They seemed to alleviate the symptoms for some time but the ich has been persistent and is coming back full force.

Stock List: Emperor Angel, Achilles Tang, Powder Blue Tang, Yellow Tang, Humu Trigger, Picasso Trigger, Maroon Clown Pair, Red Choris Wrasse, Blue Spot Puffer, Valentini Puffer and two Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasses.

I recommended to him taking all the fish out, copper treating with Copper Power and having the tank be fallow for 72 days minimum. This process has worked for my smaller reef tanks in the past and I plan I sticking with it for my smaller tanks in the future if I need to. However, he is a very impatient person and does not want to set up the multiple hospital tanks and leave his "baby" empty for over two months. The LFS is telling him to either treat the entire tank with a hydrogen peroxide drip to kill the ich or to take all the fish out and bleach the entire system of salt water while treating the fish with copper.

My question is will the peroxide drip work and allow him to keep his fish in the system? Also, if he were to run bleach through the tank as is and not do a water change would this also work?

I agree with copper and fallow (i.e. that that is 'best'). However, you can also use hypo salinity - since it is a FOWLR. And you can also treat the display with copper - but with this volume, and the amount of rock, etc - it will be expensive - and difficult to maintain proper levels.

Another issue - why/how did he get CI in the first place. After going through this entire procedure - hopefully he will QT his fish before adding

 

[GARRIGA]

The hypo-salinity recommendations seem the most practical considering the tank size and fish population. Adding stress may compound the problem. Easy enough to accomplish and monitor plus can run an extended period and have known LFS to cheat diseases by just keeping fish that way.

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

Why not consider hyposalinity on the
main tank? That would allow the fish to remain and you wouldn’t need an extended fallow period. Copper and fallow is the best bet for smaller tanks, but to do that with larger fish can be an issue having a QT that is large enough, and then, keeping it stable.
Hydrogen peroxide is just the treatment de juer and is really experimental. Its use is extrapolated from high dose dip studies done on pacific thread fin. I would never dose it without using a low dose test strip to monitor it - the unreacted amount of peroxide changes over time and you need to adjust the dose accordingly.
Jay

Ooo, I completely forgot about hyposalinity. Questions-

What is the target specific gravity?
How long should I take to lower the salinity down?
Is the treatment time at hyposalinity the same time-frame as fallow period?
How long should I take to raise the salinity back to normal levels once done?

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

I agree with copper and fallow (i.e. that that is 'best'). However, you can also use hypo salinity - since it is a FOWLR. And you can also treat the display with copper - but with this volume, and the amount of rock, etc - it will be expensive - and difficult to maintain proper levels.

Another issue - why/how did he get CI in the first place. After going through this entire procedure - hopefully he will QT his fish before adding

Not sure which one of his "ooo shiny thing" purchases caused the problem. I believe it came in with the Achilles that was supposedly QT'd by the LFS but was delivered in just a few days after they received it.

Currently I use the BRS three phase QT process (fresh water dip, Copper Power, Nitrofurazone, and Formalin baths) which has not let me down yet *knock on wood*

He is now seeing the value of all that work I do.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ooo, I completely forgot about hyposalinity. Questions-

What is the target specific gravity?
How long should I take to lower the salinity down?
Is the treatment time at hyposalinity the same time-frame as fallow period?
How long should I take to raise the salinity back to normal levels once done?

Hyposalinity runs 30 to 35 days beyond the date that the symptoms abated and no need for a fallow period. For ich you need to reach a specific gravity of 1.009 or for flukes it is 1.012 - of course, the ich level combats both. I take 3 days to drop the salinity in 6 drops during that time. Coming out of hypo needs to be done more slowly, 5 days and 10 or more equal rises.
Hypo is not risk free, some fish don’t tolerate it well and it can actually increase the risk of velvet or Uronema.
Jay

 

[GARRIGA]

Hypo is not risk free, some fish don’t tolerate it well and it can actually increase the risk of velvet or Uronema.
Jay

Is this a result of stress from too quick a drop or specific to certain fish unable to withstand the low salinity?

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

Hyposalinity runs 30 to 35 days beyond the date that the symptoms abated and no need for a fallow period. For ich you need to reach a specific gravity of 1.009 or for flukes it is 1.012 - of course, the ich level combats both. I take 3 days to drop the salinity in 6 drops during that time. Coming out of hypo needs to be done more slowly, 5 days and 10 or more equal rises.
Hypo is not risk free, some fish don’t tolerate it well and it can actually increase the risk of velvet or Uronema.
Jay

Sounds like a plan to me. Appreciate the info, going to start this process and will keep you posted on how it goes.

Going to be a lot of water changes to gets 450ish gallons down that far.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sounds like a plan to me. Appreciate the info, going to start this process and will keep you posted on how it goes.

Going to be a lot of water changes to gets 450ish gallons down that far.

If it helps, you can use dechlorinated tap water for this, no need to run RODI.

For more info, you can refer to my article here:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

Almost 600 gallons later and I finally have the specific gravity down to 1.009. Lot's of water changes.

Next step is leaving them at this salinity for 30-35 days correct?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Almost 600 gallons later and I finally have the specific gravity down to 1.009. Lot's of water changes.

Next step is leaving them at this salinity for 30-35 days correct?

30 days beyond the date that symptoms were last seen is what I generally recommend. Then, bring them out of hypo slowly, over at least five days with ten evenly proportioned salt rises.
Jay

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

30 days beyond the date that symptoms were last seen is what I generally recommend. Then, bring them out of hypo slowly, over at least five days with ten evenly proportioned salt rises.
Jay

Thanks again! Hopefully this will be the end of it.

 

[Seymo44]

How’s the hypo going?

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

How’s the hypo going?

20 days since reaching 1.009 and the fish appear healthier than ever. I still see one small dot on the Achilles Tang but all other traces of Ich are completely gone. All fish have phenomenal color and the tank itself is now running smoother and more algae free than it ever has.

Keeping an eye on the last spec on the Achilles but so far this has been the best treatment option I've ever tried.

 

[Seymo44]

That’s great to hear! Good luck and keep us updated. I’m planning on keeping a rubber maid stick trough on hand for coral if I ever need to let my tank go hypo.

 

[BlueFynn_Ian]

Just want to say thank you everyone for helping with this! The hyposalinity has worked amazingly and all the fish have never looked healthier. Very thankful to have this community to turn to.

It has now been 12 days since last sighting of any potential ich spots. Going to keep at hypo for another 18 days and then slowly bring them back up to full salinity. Again, thank you everyone!